Dear KLEI - Please implement the "No simulation tile"

[babba]

I have done some large scale testing on a 4x times bigger map ( 25% excavated ). Filling the map with Void, Neutronium or Dirt tiles, still drags the FPS down towards 1 FPS. Once excavated or in any way affected by the player tiles change to simulated mode and then are part of the simulation, starting to pull cpu time.

If we would have a placeable "No simulation tile" in the debug editor, it would help debug players and map creators a lot and create tremendous fun at playable frame rates. I would be grateful if other players support this request of being able to exclude parts of the map from the simulation, just by placing such tiles in the editor.

[D.L.S.]

Have you tried void tile? I seen it even in sandbox mode but haven't checked what is it, there is vacuum tile but there also some void tile - it sounds like complete absence of anything, maybe this tile dont have any simulation/calculations.

Or void is the open space tile? If so then try luck with vacuum tile.

[Sasza22]

That`s actually pretty complex if we want to keep the map properly simulated. There`s a ton stuff taking cpu time, especially the temperature calculations. If we just add tiles that ignore the simulation we get perfect insulation and possibly crashes if lets say a shove vole paths into it. But what about a "low priority" calculation. Tiles in regions that aren`t revealed, are far from your base and don`t have high temperature differences around could be simulated at a slower pace (maintaining the scale ofc). lets say instead of 4 per second (or whatever it is now) one calculation per 2 seconds with a x8 modifier. It would keep the simulation flowing without dragging the fps down (as much).

[babba]

Thanks for your input, D.L.S. Yes, I have tried all editor tile options and materials. Having placeable "No simulation tiles" would help map creators and debug players in terms of frame rate or if they play the game at all. It could be either an invisible tile or Neutronium2.0

Im still undecided if I will continue to play ONI due to the ongoing fps issues.

Thanks also for your input Sasza22 - Perhaps it would be fine to switch off the simulation for Neutronium tiles ? From my point of view it needs to be a completely switched off simulation on placeable tiles. There is just too much cpu load and drag down.

If we have Neutronium2.0 tile material then a map creator can design an interesting map for other players of the default size and fill 70% with it, then even notebook players could play the game.

[babba]

I played on this map, not doing much for 30 minutes @2-4 fps. Then I just let the game run for half an hour, without doing anything in my giant map. All dupes changed to idle, no more materials are shifted by dupes, they are not moving,  and Ive basically done nothing. Game runs at 30 FPS.

I tried to pinpoint the problem down. It seems that if a lot of dupes have to pass through the only existing exosuit checkpoint in the map, the game can grind nearly to a halt if a normal size game map is fully excavated. However, I would like to stay with my original request of having a no-simulation-tile: Neutronium2.0 , Im pretty sure my map would right now run with 40-60 fps if I block out huge areas as non-simulation. Iver removed the only checkpoint and Im playing without a single door, at 10 fps which feels a bit gooey. Maybe I need to revert to just play with 5 dupes

As mentioned - If we would have the Neutronium2.0 non simulation tile material then a map creator can design an interesting map for other players of the default size and fill 70% with it and then even notebook players could play the game, having their map fully excavated.

 

[Sasza22]

I`m actually not sure why there is any simulation needed for neutronium. I has zero conductivity and is indestructible. There`s no reason for simulating anything there. I just wonder if the game engine can handle ignoring an area of the map being "invisible" for the simluation.

[yoakenashi]

Good idea; however, what makes sense to me is to be able to paint FoW (fog of war) rather than a non-simulation tile. There is an option to "prevent FoW reveal" in the debug menu; though this only applies to the element you are painting, I think this path has potential to simply paint the FoW itself.

Specifically, if we paint FoW, we can eliminate those titles from the simulation. And we can also paint them so that they cannot be revealed by a duplicant walking close to it; as with the POI FoW areas. Not sure how this works, but I think this is how we would eliminate areas from the simulation and boost fps.

[Oozinator]

2 hours ago, babba said:

I have done some large scale testing on a 4x times bigger map ( 25% excavated ). Filling the map with Void, Neutronium or Dirt tiles, still drags the FPS down towards 1 FPS. Once excavated or in any way affected by the player tiles change to simulated mode and then are part of the simulation, starting to pull cpu time.

If we would have a placeable "No simulation tile" in the debug editor, it would help debug players and map creators a lot and create tremendous fun at playable frame rates. I would be grateful if other players support this request of being able to exclude parts of the map from the simulation, just by placing such tiles in the editor.

The "no simulation tile", a perfect insulator?
I support it!
So many times started a new base and when i am finally at the fresh/added stuff, framerate drops.
As soon as i uncover regolith rainstorm, i have to play singlespeed to stay > 25 FPS with my i2500k..
Snails included..
^^

[babba]

Addendum: Lots of Jetpackers kill the FPS completely, due to their option of moving in to a zillion tile directions/paths. Changing back to ladders. 10 flying Jetpackers can take the cpu load of 200 dupes by foot.

[babba]

I have got great news

The Neutronium tiles are NOT simulated ( my bad ) ! The problem was that the flying Jetpacks where pulling the frame rate so far down, that painting entire screens of Neutronium in my map didnt have any effect anymore.

How to reproduce:

1.) If not yet already and your playing on Steam - Activate the Steam FPS counter overlay, to display your games frame rate

2.) Pause the game

3.) Block out large areas of your level in debug mode with Neutronium, areas which you do not want to use or if you in general want to get your FPS up. The FPS counter should go up in pause mode as you paint a full screen of Neutronium.

# Dont forget, the games current pathfinding implementation of the jetpacks can slow down your game dramatically. A single flying Jetpacker can take the cpu load of 10-20 dupes by foot.

# Try to only have few ladders, few walking platforms, few doors in the game, it will help in terms of FPS

# Try to not have much material laying around. Dont hesitate to start the debug mode to delete stuff, if you cant get rid of it by playing the game. If it suits your playstyle, avoid compactors - Especially with mixed contents inside them.

# Make sure that all possible non-exosuit paths are flooded with oxygen, for breathing

# Coming in ( pathfinding ) contact with the top of the map, can slow down your frame rate. An established pathway to the map top can permanently slow down your game or create FPS peak jumps.

My 4x times larger map is now running super with 200 dupes and 200 standard exosuit docks, Im back on ladder gameplay.

Happy Neutronium filling...Happy ONI everyone

----------------

Idea for Klei: Jetpacker Destination Ports

Direct A to B connection, to avoid the current crazy jetpacker pathfinding which grinds down the players FPS. Those landing ports would ensure that there is only path calculation between the ports happening. This could also be done like in Factorio with the flying bots - Jetpackers ignore all collision, objects, tiles and just fly straight across the map, from PORT A to PORT B or to PORT C and so on. This would stop draining FPS if done well and it would make it more attractive in view of the games transport tubes. Maybe someone else has a better idea ?

[babba]

Large map size ( 4x ), big areas sealed off with neutronium,lots of water,178 dupes,few ladders/crossings, i7 7700k@5.4 GHz, 15-30 FPS "Runs really good"

babba`z bonnanza`z v4.sav

[qcarter]

this is a good idea, I've had weird frame rate issues at times when I have massive scale productions or a whole lot of automation running simultaneously, I'm in support of anything that'll help with those issues.

[Oozinator]

7 hours ago, babba said:

*snip*
This would stop draining FPS if done well and it would make it more attractive in view of the games transport tubes. Maybe someone else has a better idea ?

I use tubes, instead of jetpacks and from performance side, i like them.
Map in standard size is very very very very small and game needs some optimization.
It should be playable without altering debug, but to keep a base playable, painting neutronium, or fog of war (as option) is nice.

With every bit of automation i add, (wire) loading time goes up, with every active sensor, fps goes down.
Add five gates and run wires through both connectors, to speed up on/off switch and watch FPS.

Lategame much stuff needs to be run automated. Ranching for example, is very dupe labour/worktime intense.
Shipping is nice but why incubator has no repeat option (dupe interaction), why there is no "groombot".

I bet we have to wait for performance upgrades from intel, or code based from Klei. ^^

 

[babba]

Yeah, the point-to-point connection via tubes works great in the game and takes little cpu load. The below mentioned point-to-point jetpack port idea could greatly decrease cpu load for jetpackers and would have the advantage that all tiles, objects, buildings are ignored and they just fly straight from port to port, across the map - So making both worthwhile: The current Tube System & The proposed...

...Jetpacker Destination Ports

Direct A to B connection, to avoid the current crazy jetpacker pathfinding which grinds down the players FPS. Those landing ports would ensure that there is only path calculation between the ports happening. This could also be done like in Factorio with the flying bots - Jetpackers ignore all collision, objects, tiles and just fly straight across the map, from PORT A to PORT B or to PORT C and so on. This would stop draining FPS if done well and it would make it more attractive in view of the games transport tubes. Maybe someone else has a better idea ?

[babba]

Klei got in touch and mentioned that they will look into jetpack pathfinding and ongoing general performance, so that's great news

[crypticorb]

What command or keybind are you using to reveal all the paths of a particular dupe? I've been looking for this, to try to limit pathing options in normal gameplay.

Most people don't play anywhere near your level @babba, but I strongly agree that pathing optimization is needed.

[babba]

Hey crypticorb

Yeah,  I'm really deep in to this game - You are right. I saw your comment in the thread with the super-efficient power consumption guys earlier, with all the automation. I find that great too. My mindset is that I now that separate 20KW circuits, so having a few of those without connecting them. I used to do a lot of automation. With all the game updates, time to find the right map size and figuring out the balance between dupe amounts, map size, mass industry production, FPS, maxing out my ONI cpu, preparation for the ultimate rocket base and what brings me the most joy in the game...I'm again starting a fresh map, hopefully that's the final one

Pathfinding: Im not using any magic, its really simple. Click on a dupe, then at the bottom of the dialog window you see "Show/Hide navigation". Im currently playing with 100 dupes, if I build silly path finding with tubes and ladders the FPS directly starts to jump and down on my giant map. Every tile which is Neutronium on a players map will provide a tiny FPS increase. With this in mind it would make sense for Klei to make it possible that players can build Neutronium in the endgame, as its the final endgame frame rate cure for players - Especially on fully excavated & heavy automated maps.. Wishing you a nice time in ONI !