Nuclear Power and Steam Turbine

[tiagogesto]

Hello guys!

I think it would be great if in the game had nuclear power. Steam turbine would make more sense. we could use nuclear energy in a reactor. to generate heat passing through a heat exchanger and producing steam for the steam turbine. We would have new equipment like Reactor vessel, Heat Exchanger, Fuel Enrichment. The uranium ore would be rare in the map being necessary to search more in another asteroid using the rockets. would be a great upgrade.

[Madbro]

I support this, but sorry that most players rejected this dangerous power.

[InternetGuy]

We would need a way to dump massive amounts of heat if we're following the real life nuclear reactor and steam turbine setup.

[Ainsley4ever]

1 hour ago, InternetGuy said:

We would need a way to dump massive amounts of heat

In space for example. Any hot object exposed to space and with a direct view of the sky should cool down (to the initial temperature of the surface biome, i.e. about -60°C) by transferring its heat into space. This would allow us to build space radiators so that the turbines could operate. It would also solve the surface problem at 300°C

[InternetGuy]

1 hour ago, Ainsley4ever said:

In space for example. Any hot object exposed to space and with a direct view of the sky should cool down (to the initial temperature of the surface biome, i.e. about -60°C) by transferring its heat into space. This would allow us to build space radiators so that the turbines could operate. It would also solve the surface problem at 300°C

We still don't have that in the game plus there are meteorites to worry about. If it is modeled after real life radiant heat cooler for a nuclear reactor, we're better off using the water seive to delete heat.

[Ainsley4ever]

1 hour ago, InternetGuy said:

We still don't have that in the game plus there are meteorites to worry about.

I know, I was making a suggestion, maybe I misspoke.

For the meteorites, I don't think that's a real problem. It would be enough to protect a heat radiator with bunker doors, and to reopen them once the meteor shower has passed, in the same way as with solar panels. Of course, cooling should not take place when the radiator is protected by something, since it would no longer really be exposed to space.

If you were talking about the heat released by meteorites as the problem, it could be solved on condition that the entire surface cools down (when I was talking about any object, I was really referring to everything lol) faster than the meteorites heat it.  Maybe even do some kind of cycle : during the day, no heat radiation, because of sunlight. At night, however, the surface temperature drops drastically, provided it's exposed to space and with a direct view of the sky.

 

 

Or we can use sieves as you said, it's much simpler ;D

[InternetGuy]

33 minutes ago, Ainsley4ever said:

I know, I was making a suggestion, maybe I misspoke

I just felt there were too many hoops to jump through to make this a reality.

[Tekky]

I like the idea of nuclear power. I think it would also be interesting to have to deal with radioactivity. The already existing "germ" mechanics could be used for radioactivity. Of course, the half-life times of radioactivity would be a lot higher than that of other "germs".

4 hours ago, Ainsley4ever said:

In space for example. Any hot object exposed to space and with a direct view of the sky should cool down (to the initial temperature of the surface biome, i.e. about -60°C) by transferring its heat into space. This would allow us to build space radiators so that the turbines could operate. It would also solve the surface problem at 300°C

I agree. This has been discussed in greater detail in the following thread:

 

[Michi01]

8 hours ago, InternetGuy said:

We would need a way to dump massive amounts of heat if we're following the real life nuclear reactor and steam turbine setup.

Unlike a real steam turbine, the one in the game deletes heat.

[tiagogesto]

3 hours ago, Tekky said:

I like the idea of nuclear power. I think it would also be interesting to have to deal with radioactivity. The already existing "germ" mechanics could be used for radioactivity. Of course, the half-life times of radioactivity would be a lot higher than that of other "germs".

I agree. This has been discussed in greater detail in the following thread:

 

I think the same. I just thought that. leading with radiation or nuclear waste would be interesting. from time to time we would have to stop the reactor from re-loading the core and dealing with the used fuel.

[Lazy-Anemic]

10 hours ago, InternetGuy said:

We would need a way to dump massive amounts of heat if we're following the real life nuclear reactor and steam turbine setup.

With the super insulation and coolant alongside the Thermo-Nullifier I think it would be manageable. Besides, the option of melting a large base into molten radioactive slag would be worth it on its lonesome.

[babba]

IMHO players should also be able to build AETN coolers.

[tiagogesto]

2 hours ago, Lazy-Anemic said:

With the super insulation and coolant alongside the Thermo-Nullifier I think it would be manageable. Besides, the option of melting a large base into molten radioactive slag would be worth it on its lonesome.

it would be a new challenge to keep the reactor stable. Only could cool the reactor using the new super coolant. If we did not use this coolant the reactor would be stable and then meltdown and spread the radiation and we would have to contain it. The possibilities exist and are very good!

[tiagogesto]

I work at a nuclear power plant here in Brazil. Angra 2 nuclear power plant. The plant here is of the PWR type. Pressurized Water Reactor like the link below
https://me-mechanicalengineering.com/pressurized-water-reactor-pwr/

[Madbro]

8 hours ago, tiagogesto said:

I work at a nuclear power plant here in Brazil. Angra 2 nuclear power plant. The plant here is of the PWR type. Pressurized Water Reactor like the link below
https://me-mechanicalengineering.com/pressurized-water-reactor-pwr/

Wow, dude, you work at a nuclear power plant?

[D.L.S.]

16 hours ago, Michi01 said:

Unlike a real steam turbine, the one in the game deletes heat.

RL turbines also consumes heat - it extract energy from working gas.

[Michi01]

3 hours ago, D.L.S. said:

RL turbines also consumes heat - it extract energy from working gas.

They don't "consume" heat, real power plants with turbines need cooling. You can't destroy heat in real life.

[tiagogesto]

12 hours ago, Madbro said:

Wow, dude, you work at a nuclear power plant?

Yes. 12 years working
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angra_Nuclear_Power_Plant

[D.L.S.]

On 19.10.2018 at 5:52 PM, Michi01 said:

They don't "consume" heat, real power plants with turbines need cooling. You can't destroy heat in real life.

They consume heat(extract heat energy? whatever), i.e. transform heat energy of working gas into mechanic energy(spinning) of turbine wheel, so output working gas will have less energy then it has at input(in ideal system output gas energy = input energy - energy extracted by turbine). So output gas would be colder then input, you can call it whatever: consume/extract/delete/transform dont really mater, gas at output colder and have less joules then it has at an input. Then mechanic energy in generator transforms into electric energy and leave power plant by wire, and eventually at some point it will turn back into heat energy in some electric device.

[Sasza22]

1 hour ago, D.L.S. said:

They consume heat(extract heat energy? whatever), i.e. transform heat energy of working gas into mechanic energy(spinning) of turbine wheel, so output working gas will have less energy then it has at input

Let me try to explain it in simple words. Nuclear reactor produces heat. The coolant, lets say it`s water, absorbs the heat and changes into gas. The pressure rises. We release the pressure through a pipe. Falling pressure lowers the temperature while the gas is expanding and gaining kinetic energy. The turbine harnesses the kinetic energy of the flowing gas and changes it into spinning energy (still kinetic) and then further into electricity.

So in fact the turbine pretty much slows the gas down but doesn`t lower the temperature of it. The temperature is falling beacause of the pressure lowering during the gas expansion. According to the relation p/V ~ T as pressure falls and volume increases the temperature has to fall as well.

[D.L.S.]

47 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

Let me try to explain it in simple words. Nuclear reactor produces heat. The coolant, lets say it`s water, absorbs the heat and changes into gas. The pressure rises. We release the pressure through a pipe. Falling pressure lowers the temperature while the gas is expanding and gaining kinetic energy. The turbine harnesses the kinetic energy of the flowing gas and changes it into spinning energy (still kinetic) and then further into electricity.

So in fact the turbine pretty much slows the gas down but doesn`t lower the temperature of it. The temperature is falling beacause of the pressure lowering during the gas expansion. According to the relation p/V ~ T as pressure falls and volume increases the temperature has to fall as well.

So you wanna said that working gas input energy = energy of working gas at output, in terms of joules? If so then you creating energy from nothing, e.g. you put 1MJ of energy in gas into turbine, and get same 1MJ back in outlet, but where then mechanic energy came from? That's what i'm trying to say, you transforming heat energy of gas(small part of it) into mechanic, so output gas will have less energy in joules. And i know about adiabatic heating/cooling, but it affects on temperature, while energy(internal energy, joules) remind the same during adiabatic process, changes volume/pressure so as density so as temperature, but internal energy and mass are conserved in adiabatic process.

Super simple: we have energy on turbine shaft, it cant came from nowhere, the only source of energy in this system is internal(heat) energy of gas, so supposedly we extracting energy from gas.

[StarSquid]

1 hour ago, D.L.S. said:

So you wanna said that working gas input energy = energy of working gas at output, in terms of joules? If so then you creating energy from nothing, e.g. you put 1MJ of energy in gas into turbine, and get same 1MJ back in outlet, but where then mechanic energy came from? That's what i'm trying to say, you transforming heat energy of gas(small part of it) into mechanic, so output gas will have less energy in joules. And i know about adiabatic heating/cooling, but it affects on temperature, while energy(internal energy, joules) remind the same during adiabatic process, changes volume/pressure so as density so as temperature, but internal energy and mass are conserved in adiabatic process.

Super simple: we have energy on turbine shaft, it cant came from nowhere, the only source of energy in this system is internal(heat) energy of gas, so supposedly we extracting energy from gas.

Heat itself has no energy. Heat gradients, however, do have energy. Heat flows from hotter objects to colder objects, and we can tap into that flow to extract energy. Without a hot end and a cold end, no heat engine can produce power, whether it's a stirling engine, a steam engine, a steam turbine, or a thermoelectric device. So a steam turbine cools the steam, but it heats something else up (something colder than the steam) by the same amount.

[Sasza22]

11 hours ago, D.L.S. said:

So you wanna said that working gas input energy = energy of working gas at output, in terms of joules? If so then you creating energy from nothing, e.g. you put 1MJ of energy in gas into turbine, and get same 1MJ back in outlet, but where then mechanic energy came from?

I`m basically saying that the heat lowers as the pressure is released and expanding gas gains kinetic energy. That energy is taken away by the turbine, not the heat. This explains how the turbine "magically" reduces the heat. The heat goes away through a different process but it`s effect (kinetic energy) is "absorbed" by the turbine reducing the overall energy of the coolant.

After further expansion the coolant condenses into liquid and can get pumped back to the heat source for another loop. This is btw the thing we lack in the game as condensing gasses is only possible by cooling them and not by letting them expand.

[D.L.S.]

After further thinking i get where i was mistaken: all i said above true for internal combustion engine, stirling, and gas turbine but only gas turbine which work on combustion products of burned fuel, basically for all devices where working gas was introduced into the system already in gas state(combustion products of fuel is co2 and steam, both in gas state after reaction, and stirling just work with same gas all time), but steam turbine and steam engine has 1 component i ignored - boiler, extraction of heat in steam devices happened in boiler when water from liquid phase transforms to gas, it require extra energy to "promote" from liquid to gas state(it cools liquid a bit when molecule leave liquid media and join gas), so in exchange on heat we transforming liquid into gas which have ability to expand, and expansion of gas doing work. Now it make sense for me.