Condensation run steam turbine

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

1 hour ago, psusi said:

No; the only reason I built a turbine is because I needed a better way to get rid of heat than the toilet loop and AETN.

I don't see how that contradicts my statement.

[psusi]

2 minutes ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

I don't see how that contradicts my statement.

How do you not see how that contradicts your statement?

Quote

I think we are all capable of getting rid of excessive heat with or without a steam turbine.

If we were all capable of getting rid of excessive heat without a steam turbine, I wouldn't have needed one.

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

2 minutes ago, psusi said:

How do you not see how that contradicts your statement?

If we were all capable of getting rid of excessive heat without a steam turbine, I wouldn't have needed one.

There are other ways to get rid of unlimited heat. Space, sieve, petrol gen, etc. So, again:

7 minutes ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

I don't see how that contradicts my statement.

 

[psusi]

4 minutes ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

There are other ways to get rid of unlimited heat. Space, sieve, petrol gen, etc. So, again:

By space you mean boiling water and venting hot steam?  Wasting lots of water in the process.  I guess if you do the whole thermal cracking of petrol using a volcano thing to generate more water than it takes to pump the oil out of the well and spam 20 of them then that might work, but that's one ****ty alternative to just building a steam turbine.  And that still ends up being a goofy heat deleting engine that produces ( a lot more ) power as a byproduct.  You also have to have a volcano to do it, which I don't on my current map.

[clickrush]

1 hour ago, crypticorb said:

Let's let this starting train of negativity end here, alright? If you want to call someone mistaken based on evidence, fine, but calling people a liar based on what you don't know for certain is a waste of everyone's time.

LOX and LH2 production facilities can easily produce millions of DTU/s, using aquatuners and supercoolant. There might also be some other purpose @clickrush is working towards that requires insane amounts of cooling that neither of us have even considered.

No it's not that. I'am arguing against the most prevalent suggestion around the turbine, where it would convert less heat for more power. tile blocking simulates exactly that. I've tested it with two bases:

The first time I used it I was blown away by the fact that only ever my hydrogen generators and my steam generators run (which are never turned off) and I still overproduced power. With only 3/5 tiles blocked mind you. The second time I built more turbines and more aquatuners earlier in the game to gauge what the impact is if you really aim for it. The results were ridiculous. Multiple cycles w/o ever turning on my other generators.

People who suggest that the vanilla turbine should generate more power for less heat (because it is a power generator and not a cooler yada yada) simply aren't considering feature balance or didn't test how it would impact the game.

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

34 minutes ago, clickrush said:

People who suggest that the vanilla turbine should generate more power for less heat (because it is a power generator and not a cooler yada yada) simply aren't considering feature balance or didn't test how it would impact the game.

I think it's not that. As things stand just creating more power for less heat is indeed going to throw the balance out of whack at the magnitude it works now, but I do assume there will be new content around which will allow the steam turbine to have a better reasonable position along with balance.

For the record, I'm all in for less power generated with also less heat removed. But, with further limitations else you are just going to spam them around. That's I basically like about solar panels: you only can build so much because of the limited width in sunlight, and there are factors involved that make power production hamper.

Maybe they would actually be nice to be geyser dependant...

[psusi]

2 hours ago, clickrush said:

No it's not that. I'am arguing against the most prevalent suggestion around the turbine, where it would convert less heat for more power. tile blocking simulates exactly that. I've tested it with two bases:

I haven't seen anyone suggest both less heat and more power.  Only less heat.  Because the amount of heat they delete is kind of insane.  If you reduce both the power and the heat by 5x, then people would just build 5x as many, so no net change, other than more costly to set up.  Hrm.. now that I think about it, that might not be so bad... especially if you made the building a bit smaller than take a bit less resources to build ( but not proportionally ).  If you reduce the ratio of power to heat, then you turn it from a heat hungry generator into a power hungry heat deletion engine.

4 hours ago, Iriswaters said:

One vent is 2kg/s.  That's 2000g.  2000g of steam, cooled 75°, with an SHC of 4.179 is 626,000.  That's the math.  There's a reason that you need supercooler based aquatuners to keep up.

Refining one batch of steel isn't going to power a steam engine, as metal refineries only produce 16kDTU/s.

Are you sure you are not thinking of an unblocked turbine?  It feels about right to me with only one port open, but maybe with all 5 open, it would be an insane amount of heat as you suggest.

[crypticorb]

3 minutes ago, psusi said:

I haven't seen anyone suggest both less heat and more power.  Only less heat.

The likely reason most people haven't suggested more power for less heat is because it's already pretty powerful. However, blocking inputs essentially does exactly what you've described anyways.

2kW is a lot of power, particularly since the steam turbine doesn't consume any resources, and has no byproducts. It's essentially giving an almost purely negative waste product (heat) and turning it into a very valuable positive product (power), with no drawbacks other than setup. It's almost a free power source, since many players are using other methods to delete heat without gain, such as sieves, gas/fluid space dumping, or door deletion.

 

[psusi]

2 hours ago, crypticorb said:

The likely reason most people haven't suggested more power for less heat is because it's already pretty powerful. However, blocking inputs essentially does exactly what you've described anyways.

2kW is a lot of power, particularly since the steam turbine doesn't consume any resources, and has no byproducts. It's essentially giving an almost purely negative waste product (heat) and turning it into a very valuable positive product (power), with no drawbacks other than setup. It's almost a free power source, since many players are using other methods to delete heat without gain, such as sieves, gas/fluid space dumping, or door deletion.

 

Ok, yea, it may be a bit much with only one port open, but not with all 5 ports open.  I'd say it should be somewhere in the middle.  That is, require all 5 ports be open, but cut the steam it eats in half or a third.