Wickerbottom should be able to read the Codex Umbra

[Pruinae]

Maxwell can read her books even when he says they are a "misuse of magic", why can't she read his? If the problem is her books having durability but the Codex not, make so the Codex can't be picked up just like Lucy, so it would turn into papyrus if Maxwell didn't "reset the timer" of the decaying. There's no reason for having other characters picking up the book anyway.

[fimmatek]

What should happen when Wickerbottom reads the codex? If she could have minions just like Maxwell, that would be op as hell. She is already considered to be one of the best characters. And Maxwell is still the shadow master, noone has so much knowledge and experience about shadows as he has. So I don't see how Wickerbottom reading the codex would fit into the lore or the gameplay. 

Btw, 

12 minutes ago, MatheusR31 said:

There's no reason for having other characters picking up the book anyway.

There is, it's a pretty good fuel. It feels so good to burn it. (Not only as Willow.)

[Pruinae]

Maxwell doesn't have the same level of knowledge about birds as Wicker does but he still can read Birds of the World. Also, Wicker is pretty smart, I think she would be able to figure out how to summon at least one clone (and by the way the game is balanced this is more quality of life than anything at this point).

15 minutes ago, fimmatek said:

There is, it's a pretty good fuel. It feels so good to burn it. (Not only as Willow.)

Poor Max, he needs to give an arm and a leg to make a new one >.>

[Sinister_Fang]

"I'm not letting THAT in MY library!" - Wickerbottom examining the Codex Umbra.

She doesn't seem too keen on using it, even if she might have the ability to. Possibly because she knows it contains knowledge that got everyone into this mess to begin with.

And, as @fimmatek already mentioned, it would pretty much remove the one and only unique thing Maxwell has going for him. Maxwell would only exist to give Wickerbottom the codex. Once she gets ahold of one, there wouldn't be much point of having Maxwell around anymore.

1 hour ago, MatheusR31 said:

(and by the way the game is balanced this is more quality of life than anything at this point)

Hmmmm.... I disagree. But that's a discussion for another topic...

[Pruinae]

2 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

"I'm not letting THAT in MY library!" - Wickerbottom examining the Codex Umbra.

She doesn't seem too keen on using it, even if she might have the ability to. Possibly because she knows it contains knowledge that got everyone into this mess to begin with.

And, as @fimmatek already mentioned, it would pretty much remove the one and only unique thing Maxwell has going for him. Maxwell would only exist to give Wickerbottom the codex. Once she gets ahold of one, there wouldn't be much point of having Maxwell around anymore.

Looking at it that way Wicker without her books would be just a walking science machine, that can't sleep and is a picky eater and Maxwell without his codex would be a paper wearing a Tam 'o Shanter (remove one book from Wicker and she'll have the other four, remove the codex from Maxwell and he'll have nothing, but removing one of Wicker's book is the equivalent to removing one of Maxwell shadow types, removing the logger for example, he would still have the miner, digger and duelist). 

If the objective is to keep the characters unique then I agree to leave the things the way they are, but still, if they changed the codex making Wicker able to use it, Maxwell wouldn't be too different from Wigfrid in the sense that she can just make a bunch of helms and leave, unless they did what I suggested, making the codex only able to be picked up by Maxwell so he's the only one that can reset the decay timer (which wouldn't be the only reason to keep him around since making Wicker able to summon shadows don't remove his own ability to summon shadows too), that would make him the same as Wicker in the way you need to keep her around so you don't run out of books.

2 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Hmmmm.... I disagree. But that's a discussion for another topic...

I meant it in a way that says it isn't balanced, I should've left the "balanced" between quotation marks (just like I just did but in a sarcastic way now I'm just overexplaining).

PS: You wouldn't be able to just keep the shadows around forever even after the codex has decayed cause "we all know" how they can die easily.

Edit:

45 minutes ago, MatheusR31 said:

If the objective is to keep the characters unique then I agree to leave the things the way they are [...]

To be honest, rethinking about it now, everyone can use Bernie, Willow's Lighter, Beard, Battle Helm (and spear), etc. Since Maxwell can use Wickerbottom's books I don't see why she can't use the codex (just add the only Maxwell can pick it up "mechanic"). Maxwell will still be the cutesy, Tam o' Shanter wearing, paper that he is, the only thing that would change is that he would be able to share one of his perks with Wicker (which she already does with him), making gathering (wood, rocks, etc) even faster.

[fimmatek]

42 minutes ago, MatheusR31 said:

To be honest, rethinking about it now, everyone can use Bernie, Willow's Lighter, Beard, Battle Helm (and spear), etc. Since Maxwell can use Wickerbottom's books I don't see why she can't use the codex

While that's true (except that only Willow can cook on her lighter), there are other character specific items that only the owner can use. You cannot use Abigail's Flower, Lucy or Wes' Balloons if you're not playing that one character. Most of the shareability of these items are logical: if you can make a helm or a tape others can use it as well, but Lucy or Abigail can refuse to work with you (Balloons don't make sense tho - why is someone uncapable to blow up balloons??? It's understandable gameplay-wise, but not logical... but since when did we have much logic in this game? )

The codex is also a special thing. It's not only the question of reading a book, but splitting your mind to create shadow minions. Wickerbottom wasn't on the Throne and couldn't learn nearly as much about the black magic as Maxwell, whatever she uses for her books. So I think it fits that she cannot read the codex.

[Pruinae]

20 minutes ago, fimmatek said:

While that's true (except that only Willow can cook on her lighter), there are other character specific items that only the owner can use. You cannot use Abigail's Flower, Lucy or Wes' Balloons if you're not playing that one character. Most of the shareability of these items are logical: if you can make a helm or a tape others can use it as well, but Lucy or Abigail can refuse to work with you (Balloons don't make sense tho - why is someone uncapable to blow up balloons??? It's understandable gameplay-wise, but not logical... but since when did we have much logic in this game? )

Hmm, I see. If you think in "Only Wes can blow balloons", makes sense (as far as only Wes being able to blow balloons goes) that only Maxwell can use the Codex.

Would be nice to be able to have two players doing "the boring" tasks though... 

(Also, now I want to see more interactions between Wickerbottom and the codex, she has that vignette saying "Any knowledge committed to paper becomes impervious to the brain fogs of age" after all. How does she knows about the codex??)

[maradyne]

Only Wes being able to blow balloons is because only a true chosen mime can produce helium with their lungs.

 

For reals tho.
Wicker might be knowledgeable, but Max centered the latter part of his life around researching that one book's secrets and the magic associated with it. Wicker being able to use the Codex by picking it up would be like learning to speak Chinese by reading a few toy labels.
If she, Max and maybe even Wilson were to study the book together, something could come of it...but Wicker doesn't seem keen on even giving it a chance.

Using the Codex would be a good premise for Triumphant Wicker's reign, tho.
Now I'm kind of imagining the survivors in the throne room fighting over the book and hitting each-other with it.

[pedregales]

Personally, I don't see a problem with this. I mean, is not like she can't read the book (at least that we know of), and considering how much she knows, decoding the Codex Umbra shouldn't really be that hard for her, plus she is full of magic already, and Maxwell does imply her magic is not so different than his ("It's not wise to toy with forces beyond your comprehension." -- Maxwell when examining applied horticulture).

[Maxposting]

On 18. 7. 2018 at 11:21 PM, fimmatek said:

While that's true (except that only Willow can cook on her lighter), there are other character specific items that only the owner can use. You cannot use Abigail's Flower, Lucy or Wes' Balloons if you're not playing that one character. Most of the shareability of these items are logical: if you can make a helm or a tape others can use it as well, but Lucy or Abigail can refuse to work with you (Balloons don't make sense tho - why is someone uncapable to blow up balloons??? It's understandable gameplay-wise, but not logical... but since when did we have much logic in this game? )

The codex is also a special thing. It's not only the question of reading a book, but splitting your mind to create shadow minions. Wickerbottom wasn't on the Throne and couldn't learn nearly as much about the black magic as Maxwell, whatever she uses for her books. So I think it fits that she cannot read the codex.

wes needs to blow them up 

Spoiler

REAL HARD 

 

[maradyne]

...looking back on it, Wes actually does have magical mime powers that would allow him to make balloons float without helium, so noone else being able to blow the balloons would make sense. They'd drop to the ground and be low pressure.
He can also propel a boat with strokes that don't make contact with water and casually lean on air.

I'm gonna say that that's what he received in exchange for being dragged into the Constant.
He became the ultimate mime.
...he may have also lost his voice as part of that.

[ShadowDuelist]

I agree with all the reasons presented above that she shouldn't be able to. And I want to point out that despite the fact that anyone can carry the codex, it ONLY opens up when maxwell is nearby, revealing some sort of connection between the two. So as it was said above, besides the fact that Wicker doesn't want to get involved with the book, there seems to be some mystical connection between maxwell and the codex, somewhat like Lucy and Woodie.

Lore wise, whatever forbidden magics the book contains, could very well hurt, trap, or just not allow a new reader, keep in mind that the codex was found by maxwell so its probably much older than him, and by and using it is what eventually got himself and charlie trapped. On the opposite side, wicker books were published by her, and possibly even written by her with the sums of knowledge she gathered over the years, and anyone with some mystical arts knowledge seems to be able to use them just like she does.

It's even possible that the codex, despite offering some dark magic knowledge, was a trap from its conceptoon, just to get new people for the amusement of "Them" so its definately a wise choice not to get involved with it.

[maradyne]

Probably the latter, thrown into the world by Them to lure someone in and establish a connection to the characters' original world, in order to gain new playthings.
That or we've got a serious Chekhov's Gun lying around regarding the original author.

[Alatar Xarxes]

What makes any of you think that Codex Umbra is even in a language wickerbottom can comprehend? 

"Self Publishes Books", implies it's going to be in her language. No reason Maxwell can't read that. Her books aren't so much magic as they simply have an effect on the world due to her power of imagination. That is how the world of Dont Starve was made, through Maxwells imagination. So that's why it stands to reason, all characters can read the books she publishes and imagine their outcome through the power of Wickerbottoms words.

However, Codex Umbra is not something of our world. It's an item of magical prowess. It may not even have words, but abstract shapes and symbols. Perhaps it's true nature only perceived by it's owner, Maxwell. It is also his book and his alone, it makes sense that nobody else could read it, or if the book would even allow people to perceive it's text/symbols inside.

The keyword for Witterbottom is "publish" for others intended use. Codex Umbra is not.

She may be smart in wordly affairs. But Maxwell is smart in all things etereal and mystic.

[pedregales]

On 10/27/2018 at 7:44 AM, Alatar Xarxes said:

What makes any of you think that Codex Umbra is even in a language wickerbottom can comprehend? 

"Self Publishes Books", implies it's going to be in her language. No reason Maxwell can't read that. Her books aren't so much magic as they simply have an effect on the world due to her power of imagination. That is how the world of Dont Starve was made, through Maxwells imagination. So that's why it stands to reason, all characters can read the books she publishes and imagine their outcome through the power of Wickerbottoms words.

However, Codex Umbra is not something of our world. It's an item of magical prowess. It may not even have words, but abstract shapes and symbols. Perhaps it's true nature only perceived by it's owner, Maxwell. It is also his book and his alone, it makes sense that nobody else could read it, or if the book would even allow people to perceive it's text/symbols inside.

The keyword for Witterbottom is "publish" for others intended use. Codex Umbra is not.

She may be smart in wordly affairs. But Maxwell is smart in all things etereal and mystic.

Her books apparently are also made of shapes and weird symbols that the people interpret in their own way. Sleepy time stories is referenced by Wilson to be a list of phone/address numbers, while Wigfrid breaks out of character claiming there is no "suspense" or "drama", meaning she is reading a novel of sorts; 2 very different contents for the same book. Maxwell is not the true owner, he found it after an accident (but he claims that maybe the book found him), he later decoded the Codex by himself; considering Wickerbottom already deals with magic (according to Maxwell), and how smart she is, I wouldn't be surprised if she could decode it very fast. Also, the world of Don't Starve was there long before Maxwell, he just spiced it up with deerclops and multi-colored hounds, but most other entities and critters have been there for a long time.

[Alatar Xarxes]

2 hours ago, pedregales said:

Her books apparently are also made of shapes and weird symbols that the people interpret in their own way. Sleepy time stories is referenced by Wilson to be a list of phone/address numbers, while Wigfrid breaks out of character claiming there is no "suspense" or "drama", meaning she is reading a novel of sorts; 2 very different contents for the same book. Maxwell is not the true owner, he found it after an accident (but he claims that maybe the book found him), he later decoded the Codex by himself; considering Wickerbottom already deals with magic (according to Maxwell), and how smart she is, I wouldn't be surprised if she could decode it very fast. Also, the world of Don't Starve was there long before Maxwell, he just spiced it up with deerclops and multi-colored hounds, but most other entities and critters have been there for a long time.

 

That's simply the characters perspective. Yes different, but they still understand it in their own way.

It's Maxwells Journal. It literally has his M/W symbol on it. The console command is "Waxwell Journal"l. So if he wasn't the original owner he certainly is now. He just tapped into powers that weren't his alone to control.

This is proof enough that it only reacts to him when it's placed on the ground. It dosen't open for any other character. So it's doubtful it would allow them to interpret/see anything at all within it's pages.

The world of don't starve wasn't there at all before Maxwell. He literally states that "There wasn't much here when i showed up. Just dust. And the Void. And Them. I've learned so much since then. I've built so much" He spiced nothing up. He made it all.

 

At the end of the day you just proved that Maxwell should be able to read her books, because all characters interpret it differently but the effect is the same.

But there is NO reason she should be able to read the Codex Umbra. Secondly, as if Maxwell would even allow her to. It is his. Thirdly, she stated she has NO desire to do so anyway.

[pedregales]

8 hours ago, Alatar Xarxes said:

 

That's simply the characters perspective. Yes different, but they still understand it in their own way.

It's Maxwells Journal. It literally has his M/W symbol on it. The console command is "Waxwell Journal"l. So if he wasn't the original owner he certainly is now. He just tapped into powers that weren't his alone to control.

This is proof enough that it only reacts to him when it's placed on the ground. It dosen't open for any other character. So it's doubtful it would allow them to interpret/see anything at all within it's pages.

The world of don't starve wasn't there at all before Maxwell. He literally states that "There wasn't much here when i showed up. Just dust. And the Void. And Them. I've learned so much since then. I've built so much" He spiced nothing up. He made it all.

 

At the end of the day you just proved that Maxwell should be able to read her books, because all characters interpret it differently but the effect is the same.

But there is NO reason she should be able to read the Codex Umbra. Secondly, as if Maxwell would even allow her to. It is his. Thirdly, she stated she has NO desire to do so anyway.

And what tells you that Wicker wouldn't understand it in her own way and later on decode it?

It is not Maxwell's, he is the current owner, but not the writer, he had to decode it, and Wickerbottom could. The book might not open to other characters because the other characters doesn't even want to touch the book.

That is not what the lore of the pigmen, crows, merms, and specially the Ancients says, they were there before Maxwell (the merms specially he says were there before him). He also didn't make the depth worms, or the tentacles, plus many other creatures and things, he doesn't seem to know about mandrakes either.

I wasn't making an argument for Maxwell not to read Wicker's books though? This seems very out of place.

I don't agree with the first 2 points as those seem more headcannon than anything (why wouldn't she be able? Why would Maxwell not let her read it?). But the 3rd one I can understand as it has been stated by her.

[HaloFTheSun1]

I think Maxwell created the world.  I think evaluation still happens and that's why some creatures that Maxwell has no knowledge about has appeared and the birds.  Wasn't the ancients not forced underground by a bad winter? Who says Maxwell didn't make a bad winter to banish them underground?