martosss Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 This game just keeps getting harder and harder. I was happily running my colony on Mealwood, hatches and outhouses and suddenly I'm out of Dirt(which is required for all those)! Any bright ideas how to proceed? I'm currently rushing lavatories, so that my dupes won't piss all over the place hatches are slowly becoming barbecue, I'll see what I can do with Sages, since I didn't want to kill them at least for now, but I can't feed them 140kg either. no Mealwood ... I still have a ton of food(literally), but Mealwood was a substantial part of the diet plan ... and even mush bar requires dirt(and precious water .. ouch)! It would've been nice if I could turn sandstone into dirt somehow? Since I have so much Sandstone around I didn't notice Dirt is different .. and so scarce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabrute Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 sieve pwater, turns sand into pdirt. compost pdirt becomes dirt crush sandstone into sand, run through the above, makes sandstone into dirt.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedning1390 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 You can create some dirt from all of the sieving you'll do at some point, but probably not enough to sustain on mealwood. You don't have to feed your hatches dirt. They eat lots of mineral types. Basically what is needed is exploration. You can't stay in the starting bubble forever. There's plenty of resources including regenerating food especially in the ice biomes. It's not that hard if you explore and on default difficulty you don't have to fear the slimelung because your dupes are regenerating a whopping 15%. 2 minutes ago, Kabrute said: sieve pwater, turns sand into pdirt. compost pdirt becomes dirt crush sandstone into sand, run through the above, makes sandstone into dirt.... You don't need to crush sandstone. There's plenty enough sand anyway. Compost dirt only gives you the dirt you put in back. There's no net gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabrute Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 44 minutes ago, martosss said: It would've been nice if I could turn sandstone into dirt somehow? I know but since they asked..... I thought I would tell them how to do what they wanted to do... composting polluted dirt turns it into regular dirt.....converting sand into pdirt is where you gain.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avc15 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 were you making liceloaf or feeding meal lice raw? It's no secret that liceloaf is wasteful on water, but that doesn't help solve your underlying problem. gristle berries even are way more water efficient, and that *could* help save you some dirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martosss Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 38 minutes ago, Hedning1390 said: You can create some dirt from all of the sieving you'll do at some point, but probably not enough to sustain on mealwood. You don't have to feed your hatches dirt. They eat lots of mineral types. Basically what is needed is exploration. You can't stay in the starting bubble forever. There's plenty of resources including regenerating food especially in the ice biomes. It's not that hard if you explore and on default difficulty you don't have to fear the slimelung because your dupes are regenerating a whopping 15%. You don't need to crush sandstone. There's plenty enough sand anyway. Compost dirt only gives you the dirt you put in back. There's no net gain. I just killed all my stone hatches and are left with sages .. and they do eat mostly dirt, P.Dirt and other actual food. I was looking at the conversion ratio ... 140 slime vs 0.3kg of Mushrooms .. better feed them mushrooms ... or kill them and eat mushrooms yourself. Basically all foods are a waste if you give them to sages, so ... forget about sages I guess ... I didn't consider dirt to be so precious. Net gain is no germs bubbling out of P.Dirt + having useful dirt that you can invest in Mealwood or something else. I still haven't figured the optimum, but it sure ain't hatches... BARBECUE TIME. And yes, Thank you about the sieve tip, I just made them together with lavatories and there's tons of Sand, so I guess I'll have some dirt soon, but probably not enough to sustain my Mealwood heaven. Spoiler Now I"m looking at Dreckos, they also seem pretty expensive ... so they're only good for Plastic? Are they even good for that or should I just slaughter them all ? So any ideas on what's the cheapest diet? Seems like liceloaf* is pretty good, apart from the preparation time(or not, now that I saw that reply with the water remark ... 50kg of water ... no liceloaf for my dupes - they're gonna eat pure O2). PS. I have Gristle berries, I have lots of mushrooms too. But currently I'm thinking of stopping gristle berries because of water shortage. I could get a lot from the sieves, though, I just need to find a way to clean it. Sieve water + electrolyzer = pure O2 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Mealwood is early game food only Once you got a steady supply of bristles and/or mushrooms get rid of your mealwood farms to save dirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedning1390 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Critters still lay one egg in their lifetime if not fed, so you can get basically free food. With a little manual help you can have some egg layers and continuously remove the overflow to allow them to keep laying eggs, the rest you can allow to starve for the meat or drown with a door pump contraption.. Dreckos are especially good since they eat balm lilly which doesn't cost any resources to grow. You can sustain on dreckos but be warned that according to many people critter pathing is hard on your cpu. I find that drecko plastic farming isn't really worth it but you can if you want. Getting plastic the regular way is easy enough. Edit: I haven't played the experimental branch, but from what I hear the barbecue will be much more important when it goes live (for the quality of life bonus), so moving to critters as a food source may be a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martosss Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, Neotuck said: Mealwood is early game food only Once you got a steady supply of bristles and/or mushrooms get rid of your mealwood farms to save dirt Yea I guess it's time for some base repair. The problem is I need omelettes for the wise guys, but I guess they'll survive on mushrooms too. So up to now Mushrooms seem the least wasteful - 30kg Slime / shroom... so that's 60kg of Oxygen if I make it from a Puft(thinking long-term survivability) ... still not very cheap, but somehow acceptable. Given that we can make O2 from Water(x0.9), shrooms cost around 70kg of Water... and if we use a farming station probably ½ of that? (I need to build a farming station next to the shrooms!!!) Anyways, those Ice bioms are gold mines - just let the P.Ice melt => Cold polluted water for cooling .. and then turn it into clean water ... But it's still non-renewable. Nothing except volcanoes and geysers is renewable ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, martosss said: Yea I guess it's time for some base repair. The problem is I need omelettes for the wise guys, but I guess they'll survive on mushrooms too. Stuffed berries are the easiest high quality food to farm work on a good cooling system for your water to irrigate bristles and drecko stable will support all the phosphorite you'll need to grow plenty of pincha peppers no harm in starting over with a fresh colony, we all have been there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martosss Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 I would definitely play differently if I start a new colony now lol .... better(possibly faster) SPOM, more Thought on Food ... definitely kill hatches ... still not sure how to tame volcanoes, though ... It turns out I have a gold one just above my base, and it will erupt in a few cycles .. Now I have to see how to get P.Water up there to cool that gold down. That seems like a very nice thing - P.Water => Gold + Dirt + Steam. But I'll still fight with this one. It feels bad to leave 39 happy duplicants after just 100 or so nights(115 ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 1 minute ago, martosss said: ... still not sure how to tame volcanoes, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martosss Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 Feels like cheating to steal other designs, I'd like to figure out my own. Besides some of those seem quite complicated ... with the sweepers and all ... I've seen some with 5-10 doors and a spaghetti monster of logic around them ... awful ... I like simple and effective things, but they need time to hatch Nice posts, though, that vacuum strategy + the water lock is dope ... I don't use the water locks yet, consider it a bit cheating(water should be sucked into the vacuum until vacuum breaks ...) so exploiting vacuum like that looks wrong.(not that Abyssalite isolation is much different .... but still more imaginable than vacuum hacks). Also I still don't know how to effectively use sweepers. They seem quite expensive and their inner workings need a lot of effort to understand. It would be nice if someone posted a tutorial of How they couple with containers and loaders and rails. I've seen some farm posts, but that's just an out of the box example, I'd like to understand the governing laws behind them(similar to my electricity tutorial - know the rules first - then you start using them to your advantage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, martosss said: Feels like cheating to steal other designs If someone posted it on the forum it's fair game 9 minutes ago, martosss said: Also I still don't know how to effectively use sweepers. They seem quite expensive and their inner workings need a lot of effort to understand. It would be nice if someone posted a tutorial of How they couple with containers and loaders and rails. Think of sweepers like a stationary dupe that doesn't move It will pick up any item in range and drop it into a compactor or loader that is also in range (highest priority first) If there is a receptacle or compactor of lower priority the sweeper will move items from there into the compactor or loader with higher priority 13 minutes ago, martosss said: Nice posts, though, that vacuum strategy + the water lock is dope ... I don't use the water locks yet, consider it a bit cheating(water should be sucked into the vacuum until vacuum breaks ...) so exploiting vacuum like that looks wrong.(not that Abyssalite isolation is much different .... but still more imaginable than vacuum hacks). remember it's still in beta mode and there use to be much worse exploits in this game any one remember the borg cube? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martosss Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 Just now, Neotuck said: If someone posted it on the forum it's fair game Think of sweepers like a stationary dupe that doesn't move It will pick up any item in range and drop it into a compactor or loader that is also in range (highest priority first) If there is a receptacle or compactor of lower priority the sweeper will move items from there into the compactor or loader with higher priority Ha! You fell in my trap! Now here's the flood of upcoming questions: rotating loaders - does it matter how they're rotated? which tile is counted for the sweeper? top or bottom of the container or both? What about buildings like farm station or coal generator?(those are the easiest i can think of) Can something block the sweeper's view?(Here I know the answer, but only partially, so a reaffirmation would be nice) Can it harvest for me?(I guess no, but better ask a silly question than stay silly) The main concern is the range, since it's a "stationary dupe", I'd really like to know how it will behave before I place it and see that it's blocked by a farm tile or it can't reach a building on the edge because that building needs 1 more tile to be inside its range.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 11 minutes ago, martosss said: Ha! You fell in my trap! Now here's the flood of upcoming questions: 11 minutes ago, martosss said: rotating loaders - does it matter how they're rotated? no, rotate them to fit your build as you see fit 11 minutes ago, martosss said: which tile is counted for the sweeper? top or bottom of the container or both? What about buildings like farm station or coal generator?(those are the easiest i can think of) bottom middle left (best way to find out is see were items drop when the building is deconstructed) 11 minutes ago, martosss said: Can something block the sweeper's view?(Here I know the answer, but only partially, so a reaffirmation would be nice) yes solid tiles block sweepers, they will work though pneumatic doors and window tiles 11 minutes ago, martosss said: Can it harvest for me?(I guess no, but better ask a silly question than stay silly) no but there are 2 ways it can still be usefull 1. Turn off the supply and storage of your farmers and sweepers will pick up the harvest reducing dupe time 2. Allow the crops to drop naturally (takes a long time) and sweepers will pick them up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martosss Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Neotuck said: yes solid tiles block sweepers, they will work though pneumatic doors and window tiles One more thing - sweepers work from all directions, so they can feed a farm tile from below - something that might be used rather often but is not very obvious. 3 minutes ago, Neotuck said: 2. Allow the crops to drop naturally (takes a long time) and sweepers will pick them up Ahh, didn't know that happens, I thought you always need to harvest. OK, still it's faster to harvest it. Can you make a sweeper deliver, say an egg to a containter next to an egg cracker, only for another sweeper to deliver the egg to the egg cracker because I ordered an egg recipe? ( this might be useful for many other buildings). In other words, can 2 sweepers work together to complete a delivery? Also saying what sweepers are useful for helps, such as sweeping debris from digging, especially if you dig above and everything falls down delivering stuff to buildings, e.g. all kinds of stations, cooking appliances, ... although you need a container that has the required materials inside. sweeping harvested plants/eggs/critter poo sweeping hot stuff(from volcanoes)? ... but can they heat up and melt in the process, while "holding" the hot thing? sweeping stuff in chlorine/CO2 .... ? Then what are sweepers not useful for, that you might think they could be useful for? harvesting and caring for critters - you need a dupe for that sucking water from a water pump / delivering water somewhere - you basically need a water pump or a dupe for this ? Unless maybe the building is in range and the water is already bottled and in range? ( and what a miracle that would be ! ). That makes delivering water to any place a dupe-required errand. ... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuQuasar Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 By the way, if you are using farm tiles and built them early-game, they are probably made of dirt. Deconstructing them, and re-building them with clay, will buy you a small amount of food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 19 minutes ago, martosss said: sweepers work from all directions, so they can feed a farm tile from below - something that might be used rather often but is not very obvious. yes they can but depending on the angle you will still need to give them some space or the farm tiles on top of the sweeper will block it from reaching the farm tiles on the side 19 minutes ago, martosss said: Can you make a sweeper deliver, say an egg to a containter next to an egg cracker, only for another sweeper to deliver the egg to the egg cracker because I ordered an egg recipe? ( this might be useful for many other buildings). In other words, can 2 sweepers work together to complete a delivery? yes 19 minutes ago, martosss said: sweeping debris from digging, especially if you dig above and everything falls down yes but due to the low range I wouldn't use it for mining 19 minutes ago, martosss said: delivering stuff to buildings, e.g. all kinds of stations, cooking appliances, ... although you need a container that has the required materials inside. sweeping harvested plants/eggs/critter poo yes 19 minutes ago, martosss said: sweeping hot stuff(from volcanoes)? ... but can they heat up and melt in the process, while "holding" the hot thing? it will heat up quick and break, best use a liquid as a heat sink to keep it cool 19 minutes ago, martosss said: sweeping stuff in chlorine/CO2 yes, you can make a nice decon room with sweepers and chlorine 19 minutes ago, martosss said: Then what are sweepers not useful for, that you might think they could be useful for? they do supply and storage jobs only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he77789 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Can a sweeper pass an object to another sweeper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martosss Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 1 hour ago, martosss said: Can you make a sweeper deliver, say an egg to a containter next to an egg cracker, only for another sweeper to deliver the egg to the egg cracker because I ordered an egg recipe? ( this might be useful for many other buildings). In other words, can 2 sweepers work together to complete a delivery? 1 hour ago, Neotuck said: yes I believe that's your answer, now the question is how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, martosss said: I believe that's your answer, now the question is how? can be done with one sweeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabrute Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 limit dupe access once sweeper is built, otherwise dupes get priority over sweeper jobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 6 hours ago, martosss said: This game just keeps getting harder and harder. For me game gets more easy, no way hard. Dirt, stress,O², heat no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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