Game is too hard - Easy mode option request

[DubbleTwice]

Hello,

Please excuse my provocative title.

TL:DR

Problem : I find the transition from Tier 1 oxygen generation to Tier 2 far too difficult.   Impossible actually.

Solution :

• I DO NOT want the game to be made easier for my dumb-ass. 
• I would love a slider that can increase the efficiency of the algae (similar to the stress and disease slider at the start) to ease the pressure when I make the transition from Tier 1 oxygen generation to Tier 2

 

Discussion

Disclaimer

• It's not from lack of trying, research, dedication, time investment, experimentation and enthusiasm that I fail to make the transition, as I have met all these criteria before I posted here.

 

The problem

The problem is this.  Tier 2 Oxygen Generation involves balancing many things. 

Let me list them  

• Oxygen
• Hydrogen
• Carbon dioxide
• Water
• Power
• Heat
• Multiple machines to produce, maintain, manage and clean-up the system
• A network of pipes, power wires and air ducts

I can never make the transition from a base without all this ----> to a base with all this.

It always ends in a urinal.

 

Solutions

• Solution : - Get Gud
• Issue : - It's difficult to practice the transition because it takes hours to get into a position to make the transition.  Also as I arrive at the time for the transition the "seeds of my destruction" were already sown hours in the past.
• Solution : -  Read a tutorial, watch a Youtuber, use the cheat mode.
• Issue : - Yep I've already tried the obvious things.
• Solution : - Use the Disease and Stress slider at the start.
• Issue : - Hmmm, yeah ... but this means the danger in the game is removed.  I don't feel removing this is the solution I'm looking for.

My recommendation for a solution

• Solution : - If there was an additional slider that increased the efficiency of algae it would help my issue.  This would essentially give me more time to manage the change from Tier 1 Oxegene Gen to Tier 2, whilst keeping the challenges from disease and stress intact.

 

Conclusion

• I love the game.
• I want the best for the game.
• I DO NOT want to dumb the game down!

 

• I have never once experienced the end game content.  I have never once setup a space suit dock for example.  Half of the amazing content you guys produce I have NEVER USED!!!!!!!!

 

• If I have trouble with the game, I'm confident others will experience the same issue, which could impedethe success of the game financially.
• Essentially I'm recommending some more customization options - specifically focused to assist the early-mid game transition.
• I'm recommending an "algae efficiency multiplier" option that you can set at the start to make algae last a bit longer.

 

Thank you for your consideration.

Warm regards

Lot's of urine

DubbleTwice

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kasuha]

I don't quite understand what's so impossibly difficult on transition to electrolysis. 

Step 1: Build an electrolyzer, a liquid pump, and a pipe from the pump to the electrolyzer. Perhaps a dedicated hamster wheel and battery for them.

Step 2: Realize it's too hot. Solution: plant a few wheezeworts nearby.

Step 3: Realize there's hydrogen piling up. Solution: build a gas pump, a filter, and hydrogen generator. Enjoy extra power.

You're good for quite a while unless you decide to try a more efficient design.

[Kazumiya]

The problem is not from the electrolyser... because it's the best to generate O2 , so you have to struggle a bit to make it work... You can take your time by managing algae the best you can, then planning ahead where you want yout electrolyser. 

The hardest part is the HEAT, I agree... some prefer a close room with pump, but you can also set it in the bottom of your base with some wheewhorts as Kasuha said. 

I don't know which is the best way though. The problem with close room is the pressure, and the extra power you need for pump and filter... And you still need to cool down the O2. I tried with Thermo Regulator once, it was Ok... I think you need at least 2 of them, make sure to make them in gold though, they get pretty hot for sure.

[TheExceed]

The problem you might be facing is the RNG of the seed. Some maps just don't have much early accessible algar. I used to have a lot of difficult playing this game for the exact same reasons.

After watching Volx on YT/Twitch.. I have definitely learned quite a few things like less dupes. Try not to go more than 6 dupes until after cycle 100, has worked pretty well for me. Watching him helped me learn how to set up a base without dying by cycle 75 and how to traverse the map efficiently.

The best set up for oxygen that I have found is steam vent or polluted water vent pumped to a entropy machine. Section off two electrolyzers to the side of one with 4 pumps surrounded in abyssalite tiles. Then pump it into the entropy room encased in abyssalite tiles. Have automation hooked up to a gas shut off to shut off the entropy when it goes too low in temp 60-75F IMO.

With that being said, getting plastic for the high pressure gas ven be difficult. I have found by putting a pitcher pump in oil to a bottle opener to a pump is the best for getting the oil/petroleum early on for early plastic needs.

With all of this being sad, finish your research as quickly as possible. I personally find two dupes with 4+ learning in the first 3 dupes. I get my research done before cycle 100 because they are constantly doing it.

If you need a good see: 7447 is my current seed, 3 cool steam vents (2 within a cold biome), 3 entropy machines in the same cold biome, polluted water vent and 2 Ngas vents. Unfortunately, have not found any volcanoes yet. It was a bit rough with algae early on, but the caustic biome (with iron, phosperite, hydrogen and chlorine) had very large pockets of algae that I had to micromanage dupes getting.

 

I hope this helps at all. The small things really matter in my opinion. Gotta get used to the small micromanaging.

 

[Tolham]

The problem is your "seeds of destruction" that hinder you from practicing. My guess is that you're making your early game harder than it should be, which compounds the difficulty of setting up an electrolyzer. The barracks, latrine, mess hall, med bay, mealwood farm and stable don't inherently require water or power or create heat. Pickled meal doesn't use water. Research does use water, but there's more than enough starting water to research the whole tech tree. Build the electric grill and research machines away from your main base to contain the heat. A modest base with 4 or 5 dupes can be thoroughly oxygenated with a single deoxidizer for a hundred cycles, and be fed with ~20 mealwood plants forever. Focus on setting that up first. Once that's stable, you should have freedom to tinker with more advanced stuff and go exploring.

[crypticorb]

I agree with all the advice these experienced members have provided, but aren't exactly what the OP was asking about. I do think that it would be nice to implement a bit more control over the world seed generator, much like Don't Starve did.

For example, if we could have control over how much algae and water is initially available, a slider for the reproduction rate of diseases, and a "More/Less" slider for each of the geyser types, it would accomplish what DubbleTwice asked about, without changing the game at all for experienced players.

I absolutely would love to be able to bump up the number of geyers available, not because I have any difficulties setting up bases for 500+ cycle survival, but because I want to experiment with them without completely rebuilding with a new seed. My current seed has no pH20 geyser or chlorine vent, and both NG geysers put out pathetic fumes compared to the old NG geyser. I'd love to be able to control how much all the geysers output, for both challenges and making life easier.

The ability to control the world generator has been a highly requested feature for a while, because it would allow challenges such as the Klei Tube Colony that Brothgar did a while ago, or a no-geyser challenge. It would also make the starting game much easier to get off the ground for veteran players who just want to get to the endgame stuff without killing their dupes getting everything done.

[BlueLance]

You can also run most Electrolyzer set ups for well over 150 cycles (At least any set ups I have ever done) before they start to get hot (50 degrees)

Like Tolham said, usually there is enough algae in the starting biome to last at least 100 cycles, unless you really luck out and get a large algae vein or the opposite and get very little. 

Like Kasuha also said do things one step at a time, At the beginning I used to run my electrolyzer, air pump and filter in a 3x4 room (4x5 if you include the walls) This ran about 50% of the time and I found 2 of these was usually more than enough to keep my dupes going, I did NOT use abyssalite walls so the heat seeped out of the room but the room was far from anything important in my base.

Since the above design i have tweaked and changed it several times, currently my design does not have any cooling functionality @ cycle 300 and the area they are in sits at a toasty 50-55 degrees. The difference though is I think I have died a hell of a lot versus what you are probably going through and i build my base very cookie cutter, My pipes are in the same places etc because i found for my designs they work well

• Oxygen - Free flowing from electrolyzers and fills my base
• Hydrogen - Goes straight into power or excess goes to a 96 tile storage tank
• Carbon dioxide - I let it all pile up in my base where my slickster farm will be. 
• Water - Electrolyzers don't actually use a lot, sure it sounds a lot, but unless you have them running 100% of the time its a lot less
• Power - The more efficient your set up the less power you will need to use, my base runs off of hydrogen.
• Heat - Have not dealt with that yet....
• Multiple machines to produce, maintain, manage and clean-up the system - There are a lot, and not all need to be used or kept
• A network of pipes, power wires and air ducts - My biggest enemy, I spend a lot of time planning out pipes etc for new systems I keep in my base, if it doesnt work I dont keep the idea.

@crypticorb I do agree with you, and I looked at the game files, there is mode selection and the fact they changed germs and stress to be changeable gives hope that their will be options to change at least the world gen. It is easy enough to do on the game files, so I assume the devs will be able to! HOPE! PRAY!

[lovebug]

We are usually the cause of our own destruction. Not the game.

I like the game the way it is.

With the random seed, you can experience all kinds of environment and learn to adapt to the severity of the environment. 

If you are lucky, you will have a water geyser next door to your base. 

If you are unlucky, you will have a carbon dioxide geyser next door to your base.

There are winnings and there are losses. Losses make you learn and think to do it better next time.

This is my blog: http://oxygen666.blogspot.com on Oxygen not included.

No cheats have been used. Pure brain power at the face of colony management disasters.

Reached cycle 557 after endless trying. Of course, my colony died again, but I will try to come up with solutions to do it better next time.

The game is not about successfully completing everything. The fun part lies in trying and trying, and not about reaching the end.

If the game completes too fast, you will probably switch to another game next and lose interest in this game.

This game has certainly made me smarter. 

[he77789]

You maybe very unlucky in seeds, but it seems no one said the algae distiller. Slime is abundant in slime biomes, all algae and slime in 60 tiles of printer can last you 150-250 cycles if you don't pressurize everywhere(why pressurize your power room before you have refined metal for tune up)

[Oozinator]

On 6.4.2018 at 11:22 AM, DubbleTwice said:

Lot's of urine

Same here!

[Zarquan]

I would not mind such a slider.  Though algae is probably a bit too specific.  The other sliders only effect dupes.  It would be more plausible that the devs would put in a slider to reduce dupe oxygen consumption to make it easier...or increase it for higher difficulty.  Sliders go both ways. 

[Santanico]

It's funny how people start explaining 'how to play the game'  when someone just asks for a more flexible game difficulty setting. I do very much agree with the original poster. I am now in playthrough number 8 and i think i have to start all over again because all of a sudden everything goes sour.

The thing is, i get better each playthrough, but I make very minor progress. It would be very very helpful if i could just flip a switch at game's start that this playthrough i am allowed to ignore air pressure and/or air temperature. Just to help me focus on mastering the other parts of the game first.

Once you have found a solution for a specific problem, it easy and that is what most responses in this thread point out. 'Just do this or that and you are all set.'. But in real life it's not that simple. And a good game also allow a personal approach on how to run things. Especially a game like this (which already does a great job at that).

I know how to contain germs. But i only mastered it well in my 3rd playthrough. Now i consider it simple enough and I can tell the world that it's simple, but with the magnitude and depth of this game there are so many more challenges to overcome and I want to progress, then enable more options or make the game harder / more challenging.

Now i am starting playthrough 9 and i know i will fail and maybe progress 5% further into the game. I do things wrong you say? Fine, a good game let's me find out what it is and improve before it frustrates me so much i give up. I don't want to give up, but I also do not want to play another 10 games before i hit tier 4 research.

[Juicearific]

Seems everyone's given plenty of advice

As for the actual suggestion. I'd prefer if the disease and stress sliders went away, and a new difficulty slider appeared. It could adjust the disease and stress with it (and I guess they could stay, but I find it better to wrap it all up in one) - and it could also change things like the required power or resources for machines, how long it takes to mine/build certain things, how much O2 is used by a dupe per turn, etc. - low difficulties could even give more nutrient bars at the start and such.

[Zarquan]

On 6/25/2018 at 5:22 AM, Juicearific said:

Seems everyone's given plenty of advice

As for the actual suggestion. I'd prefer if the disease and stress sliders went away, and a new difficulty slider appeared. It could adjust the disease and stress with it (and I guess they could stay, but I find it better to wrap it all up in one) - and it could also change things like the required power or resources for machines, how long it takes to mine/build certain things, how much O2 is used by a dupe per turn, etc. - low difficulties could even give more nutrient bars at the start and such.

I actually really like that the different aspects of difficulty can be chosen.  Miserable can be too hard because of the complete lack of natural immunity regen whereas fatalistic can be reasonable.  I would like more customization of difficulty.  I wish more games did it like ONI. 

Skyrim could have a difficulty slider for enemy HP and enemy damage, allowing for fights that don't take forever in the early game but are still dangerous.  But instead, they have 1 slider, so I have to weigh the desire for higher difficulty vs the time I want to spend hacking someone to pieces with a battleaxe (it honestly shouldn't take more than 10 attacks from a battleaxe to kill someone, and yet it does).  Fortunately, Skyrim has mods that fix this problem.

[TimHH]

Well, you just need to try more, and in this game it sucks to fix problems, the best choice is to load early game and restart..... from where you make a tiny mistake.

I think the game do a great job to show how chain reaction works..... So don't complain so much.... you just cause your own destruction....

Also... it would be much more easier to use a world seed that would generate a map that provides you with plenty of coals to gain power and many geyser to offer you infinite water supply...

It takes time to find out the best design of your base.....

Plus: I would suggest that you should spend 4 or  even 5 cycles to dig a big hole in your map and build a big base before you start to go to research and food production XD, early design is very important, if you only dig a tiny base, later construction could be awful because your dupes will have many other things to do like cooking, fixing, sweeping, taking shower, doing research and etc..

[suicide commando]

Something I'd like to point out to the people wanting sliders for this kind of stuff, sure maybe in the future it might be nice to have a bit more influence on world generation and such, however, I'd like to point out that we have debug mode, as well as the spiffy new sandbox mode now.

Use these to learn. If you're colony is facing some kind of disaster, clean it up with the sandbox tools and you can continue your game.
And while doing that, analyse what went wrong, learn from that. IMHO, the game isn't that hard to learn. I've lost a few colonies when I first started out to various things, and each time I learned yet another thing that I have to take into consideration.

Also OP, there's plenty of stuff here on the forums as well as in various you tube vids and whatnot that teach you how to deal with various things. The SPOM for instance is a perfect setup to provide O2 for 8 dupes, while only requiring water as input, and also nets you a bit of Hydrogen.
 

[BlueLance]

2 hours ago, suicide commando said:

I've lost a few colonies when I first started out to various things, and each time I learned yet another thing that I have to take into consideration.

Doing better than me, I lost a lot of colonies. But your comment is entirely correct  Build, Die Slowly, Learn Repeat until death does not occur or is so slow it hurts to watch

[suicide commando]

I'm currently breaking my head on how I can set up a good large power plant with the NG / fert maker loop gone, as this was both my main power source as well as a way for me to remove heat from my colony by deleting hot polluted H2O.

So now I have 2 things I need to worry about that are going to get problematic on the long run.

 

[BlueLance]

9 hours ago, suicide commando said:

I'm currently breaking my head on how I can set up a good large power plant with the NG / fert maker loop gone, as this was both my main power source as well as a way for me to remove heat from my colony by deleting hot polluted H2O.

So now I have 2 things I need to worry about that are going to get problematic on the long run.

Fortunately I do not have this issue, I never used that at all and my base is currently running off of hydrogen and self powering pumps at my natural gas geyser. 

[suicide commando]

Before the CU, I was rather spoiled I guess with the seed I was using.. it had 2 cool steam vents almost next to eachother and near my base, 2 polluted water vents and a slush geyser. So I had tons of polluted water to use as a coolant and then send into my fertiliser makers to power my 10-12 NG generators.

Oh and the fertiliser was used to make coal with my hatches so I had fuel for my backup coal generators.