My Feedback/Suggestions

[fayescarlet64]

The Forge is decent enough right now, but it's in some SERIOUS need of improvements. Here are some suggestion my sisters and I compiled.

Respawn Timer
Sometimes, the hordes of enemies are too many, and if 2 players die, it easily becomes very frustrating and one-sided. Keep the player-revive mechanic, but also make it so downed players respawn after a certain amount of time. It's not fun to sit there and watch other players trying to stay alive to find an opening to revive you.

Second Healing Staff
Having just one healer makes the game really tough. Having a second healer would make things a lot bearable, and would put less pressure on Winona or Maxwell to stay alive.

Enemy HP/Attack Power Scaling by # of Players
Sometimes you don't want to play with random strangers, but with a small group of friends. My main squad is only 4 people, and we were absolutely destroyed when we tried The Forge. The enemy's HP and attacking power should be scaled by the number of players present. 

Nerf Scorpion Poison
As others on this forum has said. We'll say it again.

Buff Maxwell
If you have a Winona and a Willow on the same team, there's seldom a need for a Maxwell, so he feels a bit redundant. He could use an additional niche so he can be used alongside Winona and Willow, especially as a second healer if a second healing staff is added.

Nerf Boarilla
He's absolutely insane, and when there's TWO of them to fight, matches quickly become a frantic kite-fest, and makes it frustrating if the healer accidentally draws aggro from him. He should be toned down.

Add Items From Base Game
There's a lot of great weapons from the base game that could be used here. Spear, Boomerang, Hambat, Ice/Fire Staff... The weapons available need some variety so repeated playthroughs of The Forge feel less repetitive.

Randomize Rounds
Adding to above, it would be a nice change to have the waves randomized after the initial wave, to add variety and make repeated playthroughs less repetitive.

If I or my sisters think of more, i'll add to this list. Feel free to add your own.

[WilsonP]

One of Faye's sisters. The enemy scaling would be a blessing. We could just play a custom game and have no fear a randoms will leave mid-game.

[Sicko Hog]

TL:DR please make the Forge easy

2 hours ago, fayescarlet64 said:

Sometimes, the hordes of enemies are too many, and if 2 players die, it easily becomes very frustrating and one-sided. Keep the player-revive mechanic, but also make it so downed players respawn after a certain amount of time. It's not fun to sit there and watch other players trying to stay alive to find an opening to revive you.

You shouldn't even be dying until well into the Boarilla waves, and then it shouldn't be long until somebody casts the healing spell to put them to sleep, then the Wilson can get over there to revive you.

2 hours ago, fayescarlet64 said:

Having just one healer makes the game really tough. Having a second healer would make things a lot bearable, and would put less pressure on Winona or Maxwell to stay alive.

Having one healer already makes the game incredibly easy. If you had two healing staves, you could catch the monsters in an infinite loop of sleeping and the challenge would be gone.

2 hours ago, fayescarlet64 said:

Nerf Scorpion Poison

Stepping into the healing flowers for literally 1 second gets rid of it.

2 hours ago, fayescarlet64 said:

Nerf Boarilla
He's absolutely insane, and when there's TWO of them to fight, matches quickly become a frantic kite-fest, and makes it frustrating if the healer accidentally draws aggro from him. He should be toned down.

Boarillas are completely fine as-is. Get a Wes with +20% speed to kite one around, while a tank deals with the other.

The Forge is meant to be challenging. The normal game drops you down into a brutal, uncompromising world, and the Forge is the same. Get good.

[fayescarlet64]

Wow, I didn't think I'd see "get good" this early. If you don't have 6 players (as my group of friends is only 4 people), having some of these changes would make things a lot better. There's a fine line between "challenging" and "frustrating".

[JohnWatson]

47 minutes ago, fayescarlet64 said:

Respawn Timer

Second Healing Staff

Enemy HP/Attack Power Scaling by # of Players

Nerf Scorpion Poison

Buff Maxwell

Nerf Boarilla

pls no to all of these. Difficulty shouldn't be watered down just because some people didn't want to bother learning proper strategies, and when players make mistakes, they shouldn't just get away with it. If Forge was super easy to beat, it wouldn't be satisfying at all to win. With these suggestions, Forge would become immensely easy and not that enjoyable.

A respawn timer would nullify the need for Wilson and you would actually spend more time dead since players won't bother to revive you. Also, it would make Forge impossible to lose because players will just get back up when they all die, what is even the point of the challenge? Right now, your team will only lose if you're uncoordinated and incompetent, and that's fine. Even if nearly everyone is dead, if at least two players are alive then it's completely possible to revive everyone with proper coordination and win the game.

A second healing staff would completely strip all challenge off of Forge. One healing staff already heals enough to keep everyone fighting. Also, two healing staffs would allow the team to have a healing circle at all times, that's ridiculous. Being in the heal circle already keeps you 100% safe from everything but the final boss, and it's a massively helpful crowd control tool. So not only is everyone practically invincible, now enemies have almost no chance to fight back. The final boss also can't fight back when sleeping, so now there's absolutely no risk when fighting him.

I disagree with the scaling from playercount mostly because there's the challenge in beating Forge with less than six players. Also it would suck to have stronger enemies just because you had more players, this would make people prefer to have less players than have a player who is a liability. Same reason why bots in CS:GO aren't particularly too useful, so that teams wouldn't resort to kicking a less optimal player to replace him with a bot that performs better.

The poison shouldn't be nerfed as it's the only thing that provides any challenge to a tank. Poison is designed to be a counter for tanks since it damages through armour and it punishes teams with bad positioning with its AoE. A good healer, a good tank, and a team that knows how to focus damage will get rid of scorpions very quickly. Also, being in the heal circle completely cures you from poison, it's not actually that difficult to deal with.

I don't think Maxwell should be buffed, he has a good niche and many players prefer him over Wickerbottom. Wickerbottom or Maxwell aren't even essential in a team, so I don't get the point.

Boarilla is pretty much the only enemy that presents a big challenge to a team. If a team loses before the boarilla stage, then that shows incompetence and/or lack of coordination. Boarilla tests the team's ability to time heals, have distraction, focus fire, and prioritise the right mobs. The boarilla stage is what separates competent teams from incompetent teams, and incompetence should never be rewarded.

Quote

Add Items From Base Game
There's a lot of great weapons from the base game that could be used here. Spear, Boomerang, Hambat, Ice/Fire Staff... The weapons available need some variety so repeated playthroughs of The Forge feel less repetitive.

Randomize Rounds
Adding to above, it would be a nice change to have the waves randomized after the initial wave, to add variety and make repeated playthroughs less repetitive.

I agree with these, the Forge doesn't seem to have that much content. There's so few kinds of items and enemy types and you'll be doing the same routines every game.

[The Curator]

32 minutes ago, JellyUltra said:

Stepping into the healing flowers for literally 1 second gets rid of it.

Boarillas are completely fine as-is. Get a Wes with +20% speed to kite one around, while a tank deals with the other.

And if there aren't any healing flowers around you're dead or dying. Not balanced considering how difficult poison is to avoid if you're melee.

The Boarillas do need to be nerfed, being a Runner is boring. Boring. Maybe you haven't been one before but it's incredibly boring and uninteresting, it shouldn't be mandatory for Runners to exist. They do nothing; but run.

8 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

The poison shouldn't be nerfed as it's the only thing that provides any challenge to a tank.

Boarilla is pretty much the only enemy that presents a big challenge to a team.

Having your health drained away regardless of your defense or character is not a challenge. If the poison blast was actually viable to evade without max speed and hyper reflexes then the punishment of high poison damage would be fine, but currently dodging the poison as a tank is far too unlikely for such a significant punishment. It shoots too fast, the splash is way too large.

Yeah the Boarilla is difficult because it is undodgeable without +20% movement speed. That isn't a challenge. Having an enemy that you literally cannot stop from hitting you, is not challenge. Challenge implies that it is an obstacle you can overcome. You cannot overcome a Boarilla unless you are a tank or runner; and Woodie is the only character who is capable of forcing an enemy to change targets. If the Boarilla changes targets to you and you aren't a runner or tank, mandatory damage. Yet you can't stop the Boarilla from changing targets, unless you have a Woodie. This is not challenge, it is the same warped artificial difficulty that spawned the Souls games and all their copies.

[JohnWatson]

i guess the entire arena should always be covered in flowers 24/7 so it's balanced, also boarillas should be wheelchair-bound so it's fair and challenging

[Sicko Hog]

this is the kind of america liberals want

[TheFacelessMane]

I didn't read the whole thing and just the bolded parts. The game's difficulty is absolutely perfect. Those who want it easier need to play with a good lineup, and cooperative human beings. Those who want it to be difficult need can switch to harder characters like Maxwell or play crazy lineups like all wes.

I am so average at games like this and dota etc (didnt even play it for that long), and yet in the forge am currently pretty good with several wins. BUT it only came after I played 20-30 games. The more you play this game the more you will take back all of your suggestions except the last one (randomized waves) which is not a bad option, since once players have played the mode enough the variability in waves can be nice

[Lumina]

I wouldn't mind some balance change. For example, it would be great if another strategy exist for boarilla than "one person run when others people play", and if we can have a little more option for weapons so even with some teams everyone has a chance to obtain new stuff and vary playstyle.

Also, i feel like some character deserve a little, small boost.

 

I wouldn't mind an option for an easy mode (less rewarding). Current difficulty is a challenge i found fun because i was able to have advice and play with players with experience, often with a discord, which helps a lot, but not everyone can have this. And it's important to let people have fun with their various playstyle, amount of skill and tools that help (again, discord or any vocal program is so helpful... ). So, rather than nerfing, providing options.

[fimmatek]

10 hours ago, JellyUltra said:

Having one healer already makes the game incredibly easy. If you had two healing staves, you could catch the monsters in an infinite loop of sleeping and the challenge would be gone.

I agree with the second part, but not with the first. The Forge with one healer isn't "Incredibly easy", it's just fairly hard. I wonder if anyone could win in the Arena without healing.

9 hours ago, The Curator said:

The Boarillas do need to be nerfed, being a Runner is boring. Boring. Maybe you haven't been one before but it's incredibly boring and uninteresting, it shouldn't be mandatory for Runners to exist. They do nothing; but run.

Runners I played with dealt a pretty nice amount of damage with darts, it helped a lot. 

[BiddoBams]

9 minutes ago, fimmatek said:

Runners I played with dealt a pretty nice amount of damage with darts, it helped a lot. 

Yup, I've played as a runner a fair few times. It's actually quite fun! also intense knowing if you make one mistake you're probably gonna get everyone killed. But runners can also double as DPS when they don't need to be running, which is way more often then they're running tbh (if you have good CC)

[Plebgod]

11 hours ago, fayescarlet64 said:

Wow, I didn't think I'd see "get good" this early. If you don't have 6 players (as my group of friends is only 4 people), having some of these changes would make things a lot better. There's a fine line between "challenging" and "frustrating".

its specefied that its made for 6 players

[BabalooL]

11 hours ago, fayescarlet64 said:

Respawn Timer
Sometimes, the hordes of enemies are too many, and if 2 players die, it easily becomes very frustrating and one-sided. Keep the player-revive mechanic, but also make it so downed players respawn after a certain amount of time. It's not fun to sit there and watch other players trying to stay alive to find an opening to revive you.

It's a lot of enemies, but you can survive. You need to learn how your attacks work. How to destroy the banners / totems that strengthen the enemies or know how to avoid the attack of the tortanks for example. Finally there are strategies that guarantee their survival

11 hours ago, fayescarlet64 said:

Second Healing Staff
Having just one healer makes the game really tough. Having a second healer would make things a lot bearable, and would put less pressure on Winona or Maxwell to stay alive.

Please do not! Heal is powerful enough to cause sleep. And there are several things that increase heal. No need.

11 hours ago, fayescarlet64 said:

Enemy HP/Attack Power Scaling by # of Players
Sometimes you don't want to play with random strangers, but with a small group of friends. My main squad is only 4 people, and we were absolutely destroyed when we tried The Forge. The enemy's HP and attacking power should be scaled by the number of players present. 

That way it would be very easy to take advantage of the system. If it were to implement this it would be necessary to make more changes like take some items, change the amount of enemies, etc. Having two less players is a huge drawback and it does not surprise me that you are feeling the need to nerd the enemies. They need to play the game with 6 and they will see that it is possible.

 

11 hours ago, fayescarlet64 said:

Nerf Scorpion Poison
As others on this forum has said. We'll say it again.

Venomers Venom are the easiest enemies to avoid, they are slow, only attack at very short range and only poison if you get close. The venom is powerful yes, but it is easy to be avoided. Just need the right strategy

11 hours ago, fayescarlet64 said:

Buff Maxwell
If you have a Winona and a Willow on the same team, there's seldom a need for a Maxwell, so he feels a bit redundant. He could use an additional niche so he can be used alongside Winona and Willow, especially as a second healer if a second healing staff is added.

I must agree on the point that Maxwell has an extremely low HP and nothing justifies this. He does not have as much damage  using his passive and this passive requires him to take the risk of only being able to use the weak melee attack of the book or a staff that probably will not go for him because there are better healers like Wilson, Winona and Wickerbottom and better characters to use firestaff as willow and wickerbottom. The poor Maxwell dies with only one Boarilla's jump. Cruel.

11 hours ago, fayescarlet64 said:

Nerf Boarilla
He's absolutely insane, and when there's TWO of them to fight, matches quickly become a frantic kite-fest, and makes it frustrating if the healer accidentally draws aggro from him. He should be toned down.

I thought so too, but with the right strategy you can kill him. Even when it comes 2

 

11 hours ago, fayescarlet64 said:

Add Items From Base Game
There's a lot of great weapons from the base game that could be used here. Spear, Boomerang, Hambat, Ice/Fire Staff... The weapons available need some variety so repeated playthroughs of The Forge feel less repetitive.

It is not a little necessary. The Forge's items are very powerful and made to have more power against more powerful enemies. Normal items do not have half of this power.

11 hours ago, fayescarlet64 said:

Randomize Rounds
Adding to above, it would be a nice change to have the waves randomized after the initial wave, to add variety and make repeated playthroughs less repetitive.

It would be interesting to do more than one type of arena with different enemies and thus be able to make a strategy for them. But everything randon would be impossible to make a viable strategy.

You really, really need a comp of 6 players. With only 4 obviously the difficulty will be insane. Need to make more attempts with 6 players to really say if it takes nerfs or buffs

[Heinleinfan]

11 hours ago, fayescarlet64 said:

Wow, I didn't think I'd see "get good" this early. If you don't have 6 players (as my group of friends is only 4 people), having some of these changes would make things a lot better. There's a fine line between "challenging" and "frustrating".

I feel like maybe you and your group haven't played games with raids before?

Raids absolutely are frustrating.  Anyone who says they're not is lying.  And they're especially frustrating if you have to rely on PUGs to do them.  (Pick up groups, rather than all your own group.)  They are absolutely challenging.  That is the point of them - to face a near insurmountable challenge and come out victorious.

Raids require near perfect execution of the strat from all party members, each person doing their role with very little room for error.  It takes a lot of time, a lot of tries, to get that start down.  There's games like WoW that it can take *weeks* of work to get a particular boss down.  Doing the same fight over and over and over and over and over for 4 hours a night, nearly every night.  

 

The suggestions that you are making would make Forge no harder than a group of hounds in the game.  It would be pointless, then, at that point, to even have it as a raid.  It may as well just be another boss in the base game.  

Someone saying "get good" is being rather rude, but the truth of the matter is that raids in gaming have nearly always been "end game" type content, next level stuff.  If you want to see/defeat/get loot/etc. from that end game content, you have to get to that end game level of skill to do it.

 

It could be that raids just aren't what you and your group want to do, and that's fine.  Don't Starve is playable in a near infinite variety of ways, this is a new way Klei has added that's not going to suit everyone.

 

[SourNVitriol]

Idk, but once I realized you had to kite the boss and then time sleeps beneath the boarior to win, I realized two things:

1.) Just like in the base game, kiting is essential. (unless you farm explosives in which case it wouldn't be at all)

One common mistake people do is they rarely kite, they just stand on healing radius just hold f to smack things to oblivion, when you can still kite certain boarior attacks, and even mob attacks like the venom (x3 hit, run, rinse repeat about 3 seconds from last normal hit, they alternate between punch and poison. If you are finding it impossible, that means no one is crowd controlling and you're facing more than 2 at a time).

Most people just tank and attack thru heals, when you should use the heal casts to regroup everytime.
^Everytime.

2.) This is a great and team/raid focused direction that Klei is going for, and right now some tweaks can certainly be used, but not in regards to difficulty, and the utmost removal of roles.

Kiting is kind boring, yeah, but it was in the base game. It's also a mission critical role, and the aggro goes bonkers sometimes even when you attack in between (tip: use the molten dart to cancel the guard, it refreshes aggro)

The problem here for most people is lack of options to tackle the Forge, and that is understandable... and yeah they could add traps, more roles, etc in order to change the way in order to tackle the 2nd boarilla, dodge the venom, etc, but..

If they listened to feedback like this (which they will), they could just not move forward making any more forge events in this direction and of this caliber and difficulty. They said they were testing the waters with this, and with enough complaints they might be lead to think this isn't any good. Now im not saying we shouldn't make complaints, but more of we need to understand the direction they're going with here, and make feedback based on that, instead of trying to change the core of the gameplay itself.

Just like raids in MMOs, bosses come with patterns just like a puzzle you are supposed to figure out and overcome, and that's what makes it satisfying, even after the n-th time. That's why i keep playing even after ive beaten the forge, and help out other players to figure it out too.

I do agree that randos are hard to work with sometimes, but it's part of any multiplayer game. I gained lots of new friends cause of this event; I found that no one speaks literally -no english- at all. You just gotta keep typing and keep calm, be nice, and repeat yourself a lot. Its hard to be nice when you haven't won yet and get stuck with a bad team who haven't gotten to boarior yet, but when you have beaten it, and again, you'll realize that it's more about the gameplay.

^{And pick two wilsons cause its super OP one as tanky healer and another as kiter/reviver man ez gg}