100% Efficient Electrolyzer

[Grimgaw]

9 hours ago, DotZip said:

As far as I know, it's coming from the design of Lady Eadra on twitch and youtube, I've been using it ever since.

Can't be arsed looking for original concept, but this was posted shortly after:

 

[DotZip]

Posted shortly after what ? Are we discussing who's done it the first ?

Sorry, I'm not english, I wrote "As far as I know" thinking everyone would understand that's not an affirmative statement

 

[nabbs1]

I look and do and can not for the life of me figure out how the water works without swamping the machine.

[DotZip]

You have trouble when you pour water in the machine you mean ? In my picture, the U shape where you put water is not what I meant to show. The right part of the U shape isn't high enough of 1 tile.

Don't know if that's what you meant.

[NanoD]

3 hours ago, nabbs1 said:

I look and do and can not for the life of me figure out how the water works without swamping the machine.

Visually it looks like there is lots of water. But only thing that matters to machines is how many kg of water there is. In my I think there is 60 kg of polluted water and 5 kg of clean water per tile. Not enuf to drown them.

[nabbs1]

That helps a ton NanoD thanks

 

 

[Le0n1des]

The amount of each  liquid has to be below what it takes for a vent to overpressure - 1500g

[serfranc]

On 10.09.2017 at 3:05 PM, Le0n1des said:

The amount of each  liquid has to be below what it takes for a vent to overpressure - 1500g

no, look at my comment

 

[manu_x32]

On 9/5/2017 at 8:28 AM, Exa said:

mechanical filter

???

This thread shows how to make a mechanical gas pipe filter. I've tried it and it works like a charm.  It works also for liquid pipes.

 

[Lifegrow]

On 07/09/2017 at 9:37 AM, DotZip said:

As far as I know, it's coming from the design of Lady Eadra on twitch and youtube, I've been using it ever since.

I think some "glitches" should continue to exist. The thing is that we put water and polluted water in the chamber in order to separate the two gas outputs. This seems quite possible if you think about only science here (except the crazy capillary effect on the water in the chamber).

Klei has decided to get us only two steam geyser on each map. I think it's fair to make such decisions, but it's also fair to let us try and get a 100% efficiency while "using" this water. It doesn't destroy anything miraculously, it doesn't set any scientific rule to be right or wrong either, it doesn't break the game, it's not overpowered because it is still limited by the output of two steam geyser (which is a limitation made by klei).

I hope Klei will not decide to take this glitch off. It is part of the useful glitches that makes us think and have fun at the same time.

But that's my opinion only..

The lovely Lady Eadra was late to the party with this design by about a month, the hydra wasn't even the first iteration, that was more an evolved showcase in a somewhat sustainable form. Personally I hate this exploit - it's one of the few that I will come right out and say it's beyond cheaty  

The fact you can bug a low power usage building into outputting ridiculous amounts of oxygen for near zero set up time (even before the water bottler, dismantling filled pipes was a simple alternative for the mixed water headache) to me is ludicrous. To argue that it isn't overpowered because we "only have 2 steam geysers" is a little strange to me - if you remember that a single electrolyzer only requires 1kg/s. I would argue that it does break the game, considering a lack of oxygen is certain death. This is on a par with when medical cots replenished calories so food wasn't an issue, or when plants could be uprooted to reset seed count, or when any number of daft exploits were eventually obliterated  

I hope Klei nuke the living bejeasus out of this glitch personally. I think it'll lead to players learning how to actually manage oxygen production, cooling and distribution properly, rather than just blindly following a guide that someone has made to eradicate the mechanic.

As ever, I've always said this both on stream and the forums, those who blindly exploit will be the first ones complaining that the game is "too hard" when their overpowered bugs eventually get squashed, and they're "forced" to use the games intended features  

[Grimgaw]

If you set p 10 electrolyzers and they each work 10% of the time they consume the same amount of water/power as this glitched one. You're not cheating your way into extra amount of oxygen. There's nothing overpowered about it.

Like I mentioned in another thread it's the same 'one substance per square' rule used in other 'exploits'. 

We've seen you using door pathing glitch, doors as liquid vessel, vent in liquid etc. Hope you're not playing favourites here.

[Lifegrow]

9 hours ago, Grimgaw said:

Like I mentioned in another thread it's the same 'one substance per square' rule used in other 'exploits'. 

We've seen you using door pathing glitch, doors as liquid vessel, vent in liquid etc. Hope you're not playing favourites here.

@Grimgaw there's a world of difference between knowingly using something that is an exploit as a way of short-cutting/simplifying a build, as opposed to knowingly using an exploit and claiming it isn't one... I've discussed this numerous times on stream and on these forums.

I've used the empty tile airlock trick in 2 stream playthroughs out of 8 - and only used it when 4 x airlocks in sequence were super cooling bases to liquid oxygen levels... I also used the diagonal destruct trick to build fridge rooms, when I could've gone to the effort of using a pump instead. Never have I built a water tank out of doors so I've nothing to say about that  

At no point have I bad mouthed exploits, or those that use them - I've simply pointed out that historically these are the same people who habitually complain  I do however take issue with people who claim "this isn't exploiting game mechanics" - when it so clearly is.

Your justification is flawed in as much as your "bugged" electrolyzer can output over and above the max pressure threshold that would normally require numerous pumps to clear from a standard electrolyzer. Build two systems side by side in debug and tell me which generates the most O2/w.... If you like you can ask me to show you next time you're in my stream - i'll happily jump into debug and demonstrate the differences, as I'm sure you know.

In short, my opinion is just that - an opinion. You're entitled to yours as much as the next person, however at least be reasonable in your stance  

Anyways, not looking to cause a fight, just pointing out the discrepancies in your argument.

xoxo

[DotZip]

Hi sir,

Did I say it was not a glitch ? Did I make you feel that way ? Maybe I did, I don't know, and too lazy to read all that I said.

What I mean was that if the machine's gonna stay like it is, then I say it's broken and I want to keep the glitch in the game. Why ? Because this game is about science, it is about doing stuff right, being acurate. I am not willing to make a 100% efficient electroliser just because I want to break the game. It is just that the machine is not working properly that's all. The efficiency of a machine that's 10% is not valuable, even in a video game, it makes the objective of producing the oxygen harder using an easy way of coding. Do you know that the thermal engine's efficiency in our cars is considered as bad by a lot of engineers, and it is around 30 to 50%. This electroliser is a machine with a water pump electrically powered and an anode and cathode. The efficiency shoudn't be 10%...

You use the fact that it's working only 10% of the time to say that's hardcore, that makes us learn and trying to modify it is cheating.

It's the only glitch that I use, I'll stop to use it when the system will be balanced. I won't install 10 electrolizer all around the base just because they are 10% efficient, and say that I'm a clever boy because I leave the hydrogen going on top of oxygen and recover it at the top of the base. Yes it is clever, yes it makes us think, but that's not accurate and we avoid other problem troubleshooting because of this where we could have learned other things.

 

Why don't people want to move the boundaries ? Get the output of the machine to a few more bar, being able to push air in the wide atmosphere without coughing like crazy. Then make it more power consuming, reduce the oxygen production, make it produce more heat with joule effect. We don't want the game to be easier, but more detailed, more acurate..

Our dupes are okay at around 1.5kg/m3, less when it goes down to 0.5kg/m3, then do the same over 2.5Kg/m3. I don't speak about oxygen, I speak about pressure, the thing that kills you if you experience a low pressure (like under 400 mbar), or a high pressure (building up starting from 2 - 2.5bar). A vaccum should kill the dupes without suit, same for a high pressure geyser containment room. In the middle of it, dupes should get dizzy and lost while experiencing 3 to 6 bar pressure around them, up until they lost memory, get crazy and die over 10bar..

Here, the vents and electroliser stops around 2kg/m3 volumetric mass, okay that's acurate but repaing this and giving them more pressure output we could introduce high pressure management and all that comes with it, including learning and in your case more difficulty as you wished

 

Just one last thing, I'm not posting to complain about the difficulty of the game. I'm not posting if it is not to make things go further. If I started to post here, it is because it's the Klei official forum, I want to keep being naive and think one day one developer will read what I wrote, take it with him, speak about it in a meeting and push the game a little further with this idea. Complaining because of difficulty is nonsense in a single player game where you can copy paste the build of others. Complaining about something that should be more detailed and could be more interesting has another purpose.