Flatulence vs Irritable Bowel vs Small Bladder

[clamjam]

I wanted to compare the potential oxygen production of the three duplicant traits: flatulance, irritable bowel, and small bladder.  So I did!  Granted, this test was done on a very short time frame (the first 3 cycles of a new colony), so feel free to take this information with a grain of salt.

Now, here are the effects of the three traits in question.

• Flatulence: + 5.0 grams of contaminated oxygen when the dupe lets one rip
• Irritable bowel: -0.5 bladder efficiency
• Small bladder: Bladder change +0.2%/s

Meet Horatio (flatulence), Cecil (small bladder), and Vernon (irritable bowel).  I created a new world, and isolated these three each in their own rooms in order to measure their pee separately.  I had to pay special attention to Horatio, so I could count his farts as they happened.

Horatio farted exactly 14 times on cycle 1, 17 times on cycle 2, and 18 times on cycle 3.  The oxygen production from this trait came out to 245 grams in 3 cycles.  With no traits affecting his bladder or bowels, he wet himself 2 times in the first 3 cycles.  The contaminated water count at each incident came out to 1.8509 kg, and 3.6577 kg.  The amount of contaminated water produced averaged out at 1.82885 kg per incident.

Cecil wet himself 4 times in the first 3 cycles.  The contaminated water count at each incident came out to 1.9017 kg, 3.7981 kg, 5.6952 kg, and 7.5365 kg.  The amount of contaminated water produced averaged out at  1.884125 kg per incident.

Vernon wet himself 2 times in the first 3 cycles.  The contaminated water count at each incident came out to 1.7918 kg, and 3.6957 kg.  The amount of contaminated water produced averaged out at 1.84785 kg per incident.

After finding these totals, I had to calculate the potential oxygen generation of each trait.  Haratio's farts gave us 245 g contaminated oxygen, an average of 81.6666666667 g contaminated oxygen per day.  The amount of contaminated water that Cecil's small bladder gave us was 3.8408 kg more than the closest total.  The potential oxygen generated from that trait appears to be 3.4106304 kg from 3 days of pee, an average of 1.1368768 kg potential oxygen per day. Vernon's irritable bowel trait appears to have no effect on the amount of contaminated water produced.

Until today, I was under the assumption that the irritable bowel trait affected the amount of contaminated water generated by dupes.  It appears this trait only takes affect when the lavatory or outhouse is used.  The potential oxygen from the small bladder trait is significantly higher than the contaminated oxygen generated by flatulence.

[lemmethink]

In space, silent is deadly... let 'er rip!

They should add methane to the farts and allow us to extract it for fuel...

[clamjam]

That would be great!  Especially if cooking becomes an important part of the game.  Mmm, lice fresh off the grill and cooked with farts.

[SpoonsOnMyElbows]

Good stuff!
However, are you sure about the numbers?
Because it looks as though you are counting the total amount of contaminated oxygen, and dividing by the times he farted.
But are you considering that he also breathes that contaminated oxygen too? Sometimes right away?
Also, when dirty water is exposed to clean oxygen, ((it periodically loses mass - according to these forums which might also be incorrect)) and creates contaminated oxygen (this part is definitely true).
 

[SpoonsOnMyElbows]

I can confirm that it is exactly 5g of contaminated oxygen each fart. I did this by forcing him to enter 'holding breath' state  by puting him in concentrated CO2, and then measuring each fart.

[clamjam]

I'm about as sure as I can be with the numbers.  I knew the amount of gas expelled from flatulence before I conducted the test, and I paused the game as soon as the dupes were done peeing to count the contaminated water totals for each dupe.  If the contaminated water does lose mass when emitting contaminated oxygen, it's a negligible amount for the sake of this experiment.  The amount of contaminated water made by each dupe during their first ... accident ... was between 1.7 and 1.9 kg.  The average amount of contaminated water for each dupe reflected that range closely enough to say that if water mass is lost while emitting contaminated oxygen, it is no more than a few grams for each instance.

[clamjam]

Oh, and for the increased oxygen potential from the small bladder, I came to that conclusion by subtracting the highest amount of contaminated water generated from a dupe without that perk from the total contaminated water released by the small bladder.  So,

• 7.5365 kg  (Cecil) - 3.6957 kg (Vernon) = 3.8408 kg (amount of contaminated water specifically from the small bladder trait)
• 3.8404 kg (small bladder) x 0.888 (oxygen conversion with electrolyzer) = 3.4106304 kg (oxygen)
• 3.4106304 kg (oxygen) / 3 cycles = 1.1368768 kg potential oxygen per day (bonus potential oxygen from small bladder trait)

This information is assuming that converting contaminated water into clean water is indeed 1:1.

[SpoonsOnMyElbows]

"between 1.7 and 1.9 kg.  The average amount of contaminated water for each dupe reflected that range closely enough to say that if water mass is lost while emitting contaminated oxygen, it is no more than a few grams for each instance."

I've been testing right now, and i found that having a dupe have an accident when standing on more than 1 open tile gave results between 1704g and 1881g, but when i put them in a 1x3 with a mesh tile underneath them, it was exactly 1750g 10 times in a row, with both regular and weak bladder dupes.
Interestingly, although the time taken to reach a full bladder is halved with a weak bladder dupe, the time to actually pop, is exactly the same, and the amount of contaminated water the same too.
The time from 0% bladder to 100% is (and these times may differ for game speeds and even cpu's but the scaling is the same) :
3m20s for regular dupes (Or 1 full day exactly)
1m40s for weak bladder dupes (Or half a day exactly)
But the time to "pop" from 100% bladder is 42 seconds in both cases.
(I tested this at least 20 times).
This means that the whole cycle takes:
4m02s for a regular dupe.
2m22sec for a weak bladder dupe. 
In other words, although the time taken to reach a full bladder is exactly double, the regular dupe will only have accidents 33% less often, instead of 50%.

EDIT : Also, it seems the contaminated water does lose mass, and like you were saying, it looks to be only a few grams at a time. I'm working on getting some better numbers on that right now though.

EDIT : Also, another thing to note is that there is a bug when showing you the current increase on bladder with "weak bladder" dupes. It correctly tells you that it is 0.2% for the dupe, and then an additional 0.2% for the weak bladder trait, but then gives you a total of 0.3% in the tooltip.

[clamjam]

That's awesome!  Thanks for the info.

[lcy03406]

I have an idea. Every new world seems have the same starting preset, I think there is same amount of oxygen in the preset every time. So, if we start 3 game worlds, each with all 3 starting dupes with a same trait, and do nothing, wait for their death. The world which have the longest average life time is the winner.

[Saturnus]

10 minutes ago, lcy03406 said:

I have an idea. Every new world seems have the same starting preset, I think there is same amount of oxygen in the preset every time. So, if we start 3 game worlds, each with all 3 starting dupes with a same trait, and do nothing, wait for their death. The world which have the longest average life time is the winner.

Yeah, that would be a good test. As the problem I'm seeing here is that it's talking about "potential oxygen", if it is distilled into water and then converted into oxygen.

I'm more interested in knowing how much contaminated O2 is generated from the contaminated water directly as it gasses to know exactly to what percentage the dupes are self-sufficient in oxygen from their own waste without any technology applied.

[simonex93]

From survival to mad scientist testing on guinea pigs... this game took a really wrong turn xD

[Saturnus]

10 hours ago, clamjam said:

Vernon wet himself 2 times in the first 3 cycles.  The contaminated water count at each incident came out to 1.7918 kg, and 3.6957 kg.  The amount of contaminated water produced averaged out at 1.84785 kg per incident.

What is interesting to me here is the order of magnitude that is less than what is required to give a pure oxygen atmosphere.

I'll just go with round numbers, and correct me if I'm wrong here but dupes need 100g/s of breathable air, doesn't matter which kind it is. There is about 600 seconds in a cycle so effectively each dupe should need 60kg/cycle. However, you can only make about 1.2kg/day pure oxygen per day from a regular dupes waste, and twice that from one with a small bladder. Not counting vomit here which may skew the numbers a bit but not totally invalidate them. So it would seem you need to distil the waste of 50 dupes (or 25 small bladder dupes) to get pure O2 enough for one dupe.

Or have I missed something because it's still early, and I just need more coffee?

EDIT: apparently vomit is 20kg per incident giving 17.6kg of pure O2 if distilled. Get them as stressed and sick as possible then, it's the best way to make pure sustainable O2 from dupe waste.

However, a much more effective way is still a morb O2 generator and liquefying the oxygen.

EDIT2: Interestingly, a small bladder/divers lungs dupe can be self-sufficient in waste harvested O2 if you can get him/her to puke (just a fraction less than) once per day on average.

[SpoonsOnMyElbows]

3 hours ago, Saturnus said:

Yeah, that would be a good test. As the problem I'm seeing here is that it's talking about "potential oxygen", if it is distilled into water and then converted into oxygen.

I'm more interested in knowing how much contaminated O2 is generated from the contaminated water directly as it gasses to know exactly to what percentage the dupes are self-sufficient in oxygen from their own waste without any technology applied.

Just finished testing this.

In a 1 wide testing chamber, each "puff" of contaminated oxygen consumes 500mg of contaminated water, and 500mg of oxygen,
and produces 500mg of contaminated oxygen. (Why klei, why not 1000mg! It hurts my brain)
The shown numbers vary wildly per "puff" sometimes even showing an increase in all 3 substances, but overall it worked out to be 500mg of each. But every 3rd or so puff seemed to reset the substance values to exactly what they should be if it were 500mg.
This leads me to believe that it is always using 500mg of each and producing 500mg, and just sometimes displays wrong.
This was not the case, however, in a testing chamber 3 wide. Giving the gases somewhere to move seems to make the values less consistent, although still on average very similar.
I found the same phenomena with vomiting, and accidents.
With a 1 wide chamber, the vomit was always exactly 20kg, and the "accidents" always 1750g.
With a wider floor / room for it to spread, they just averaged these numbers.
Other gases did not seem to be able to replace the oxygen to produce the same puffs, including CO2.
 

[rezecib]

According to the decompiled code there are 600s in a day, and the default TUNING.DUPLICANTSTATS.BASESTATS.BLADDER_INCREASE_PER_DAY is 100, so it's rounding 100/600 or 0.1666... to 0.2. Small bladder is listed in TUNING.TRAITS as adding a delta of exactly 0.1666667 (not sure why they didn't use a fraction for the best precision, but that's what it says). So a duplicant with a small bladder gets 0.333333367%/s, which it's rounding to 0.3%. Multiplying that back out it should make them reach a full bladder in just a tiny bit under half a cycle, which matches your observation.

I also found in TUNING.TRAITS that farts occur randomly every 10-40s, which would mean an average of every 25s, or 24 times a day. This seems to be a bit higher than what you observed, though, so it's possible that farting has low priority and can get overridden by other behaviors (for example, sleeping).

I didn't find anything that was easily interpretable as volumes for the pee or vomit, those behaviors seem to be heavily abstracted.

Irritable Bowel is referred to modifying TOILET_EFFICIENCY, so I think you're right about it only mattering for outhouse/lavatories.