Am I late to the party on this?

[WildWesternWilson]

It's possible that Willow was based on a character of the same name who liked to start fires in a Terry Pratchett novel. At least, I'm told it was a girl who liked flames. 

 

… I'm probably the 7,314th person to get this, but I dunno. 

[ObsidianKing]

The only pyromaniac Terry Pratchett character I know of was called either Lofty or Tilda, not Willow. I don't remember any Willows at all.

[WildWesternWilson]

4 minutes ago, Lium said:

The only pyromaniac Terry Pratchett character I know of was called either Lofty or Tilda, not Willow. I don't remember any Willows at all.

Ah, may be mistaken. Will have to re-read the book I'm thinking of to check

 

Well, everyone can leave now, buh-bye. 

[Arlesienne]

7 minutes ago, Lium said:

The only pyromaniac Terry Pratchett character I know of was called either Lofty or Tilda, not Willow. I don't remember any Willows at all.

Not "or". Lofty Tewt IS Tilda. As pretty much every member of the Monstrous Regiment, she has a moniker.

Then again, what evidence is there? It is not like Sir Terry created the only dark-haired pyromaniac ever.

[ObsidianKing]

5 minutes ago, Arlesienne said:

Not "or". Lofty Tewt IS Tilda. As pretty much every member of the Monstrous Regiment, she has a moniker.

I know that. But if you're called one thing as a nickname, but still have a real name you can be called either. Hence "or".

[Arlesienne]

6 minutes ago, Lium said:

I know that. But if you're called one thing as a nickname, but still have a real name you can be called either. Hence "or".

In this meaning, you are correct. Tilda "Lofty" Tewt, the Tenth Foot's recruit in the war between Borogravia and Zlobenia.

EDIT:

There WERE "flashsides" (sic!) about Charlie (when Maladict/a is deprived of coffee), to the Vietnam War, naturally, but I do not think Willow is based off some single character. More like an archetype of a person suffering from pyromania from the period.

[CaptainChaotica]

I've read that book, and now I'm gonna have to go back and look at it again...I do remember that practically everybody there was one of the "misfit toys" (had something weird, broken, hidden, or quirky about them--ya know, like Don't Starve characters) but I'm not sure if I remember that particular one...

...and anyway, if I had to choose a book "reference" for Willow, I'd go a bit older and WAY more obvious:  Charlie McGee, from "Firestarter".  Now, she was a pyroKINETIC, which is quite different...but my own personal headcanon is that Willow is a wild-talent pyrokinetic but doesn't know it.  Because everybody in Don't Starve who got "strange new powers" basically had something that was already really extreme about them..._sharpened_ into an actual power/curse/change of form by the high-energy magical field that suffuses the Don't Starve world.  It awakened their "talent", activated their meta-gene, call it what you will, but yeah.  Would they still have this power if they went back to Earth?  Probably not, but nobody's getting back there to check anytime soon.

In Willow's case, as I see it, she can spontaneously start fires from nowhere (ever seen her do the "oops!" thing with _nothing at all_ in her inventory?) but doesn't KNOW she can because every single time it happens, she's out of her gourd.  I don't think she was immune to fire back on Earth either; that probably turned from a delusion "Fire would never hurt me!  It's my only friend!" into it ACTUALLY never hurting her--again, high magic field.  Now, in real life you can't just go back and forth from "insane" to "sane" in a matter of _hours_, and the two aren't anywhere near that binary.  If you COULD, however, I imagine whatever happened while you were nuts would probably feel like some hazy, creepy fever dream.  So Willow would never be quite sure if what happened last night was real or not... (Similarly, I think her "infinite" lighter is actually finite as anything else, and SHE'S powering it, and again, doesn't know.)

Sure, all this goes out the door with "Together"--but they nerfed her into total BORING pointlessness in that, so...

To end this on a less "inflammatory" (HA!) note, I'd say that Willow doesn't _suffer_ from pyromania...she enjoys every minute of it! 

Anyway.  Discworld?  HELLS YES!  If there isn't a thread about that in the Off-Topic area, there totally needs to be.  Like, now.

...Notorious

[Kuirem]

6 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

I've read that book, and now I'm gonna have to go back and look at it again...I do remember that practically everybody there was one of the "misfit toys" (had something weird, broken, hidden, or quirky about them--ya know, like Don't Starve characters) but I'm not sure if I remember that particular one...

Well they were all an Abominations Unto Nuggan since they were all girls!

Polly (the main protagonist) is boyish, she said multiple time that all it takes for her is to cut her hair short.

Maladict is a vampire addicted to coffee.

Igorina can remove her hair, is it not enough?

Carborundum is a troll but nothing more special about her as far as I remember.

Tonker, Lofty and Wazzer all come from the Girls' Working School and have reacted differently from the harsh education from there. Tonker is extremely cynic and quick-tempered. Lofty is a pyromaniac. Wazzer is extremely religious toward the Duchess.

The last one Lofty is pregnant and looking for the father.

[CaptainChaotica]

(laughs)  Let's hope nobody who hasn't read the book yet and is planning to reads this topic...

And pretty much existing is an abomination to Nuggan, the little weasel poopstain of a "god". 

...Notorious

[WildWesternWilson]

23 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

I've read that book, and now I'm gonna have to go back and look at it again...I do remember that practically everybody there was one of the "misfit toys" (had something weird, broken, hidden, or quirky about them--ya know, like Don't Starve characters) but I'm not sure if I remember that particular one...

...and anyway, if I had to choose a book "reference" for Willow, I'd go a bit older and WAY more obvious:  Charlie McGee, from "Firestarter".  Now, she was a pyroKINETIC, which is quite different...but my own personal headcanon is that Willow is a wild-talent pyrokinetic but doesn't know it.  Because everybody in Don't Starve who got "strange new powers" basically had something that was already really extreme about them..._sharpened_ into an actual power/curse/change of form by the high-energy magical field that suffuses the Don't Starve world.  It awakened their "talent", activated their meta-gene, call it what you will, but yeah.  Would they still have this power if they went back to Earth?  Probably not, but nobody's getting back there to check anytime soon.

In Willow's case, as I see it, she can spontaneously start fires from nowhere (ever seen her do the "oops!" thing with _nothing at all_ in her inventory?) but doesn't KNOW she can because every single time it happens, she's out of her gourd.  I don't think she was immune to fire back on Earth either; that probably turned from a delusion "Fire would never hurt me!  It's my only friend!" into it ACTUALLY never hurting her--again, high magic field.  Now, in real life you can't just go back and forth from "insane" to "sane" in a matter of _hours_, and the two aren't anywhere near that binary.  If you COULD, however, I imagine whatever happened while you were nuts would probably feel like some hazy, creepy fever dream.  So Willow would never be quite sure if what happened last night was real or not... (Similarly, I think her "infinite" lighter is actually finite as anything else, and SHE'S powering it, and again, doesn't know.)

Sure, all this goes out the door with "Together"--but they nerfed her into total BORING pointlessness in that, so...

To end this on a less "inflammatory" (HA!) note, I'd say that Willow doesn't _suffer_ from pyromania...she enjoys every minute of it! 

Anyway.  Discworld?  HELLS YES!  If there isn't a thread about that in the Off-Topic area, there totally needs to be.  Like, now.

...Notorious

Yeah, probably that.

(i feel stupid now)

[CaptainChaotica]

Nah, there's multiple different references possible for all kinds of things.  In Willow's case, it might be none of them.  Maybe they just wanted a fire-crazy chick who looked kinda like Wednesday (another W name!) Addams as drawn by Edward Gorey.  Heh.

Who is Edward Gorey?  I (and most other people) mainly know him for THIS , which is one of the first things I thought of when I saw Don't Starve's art style.  (The whole macabre-in-a-slightly-silly-way tone fits, too.)

...Notorious

[Scoobie101]

On 5/30/2016 at 7:16 AM, CaptainChaotica said:

but they nerfed her into total BORING pointlessness

*gasp* I bite my thumb at thee! But anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if Willow IS based off something, after all the unimplemented character Winnie (whom turned into Wigfrid) was/is speculated to be based off Winifred from Tuck Everlasting.

[Arlesienne]

Wednesday, personality-wise, is actually Willow and Wendy combined (and then some) .

[CaptainChaotica]

Kinda yeah.  I figured out the other day, that whenever I go to say one of Wendy's quotes out loud, my voice just _automatically_ ends up sounding like Wednesday from the Addams Family movies.  "Are they made from real Girl Scouts?" that kind of tone.  And it took me a while to even realise that's what I was doing!  : P

As for Willow being "nerfed into boring pointlessness"...she's not only one of my faves--she is, oddly enough, the character I've set _all my records with_ and that wasn't even on purpose.  I'm just really, really sad that her lighter is now like anything else and fire DOES hurt her.  One of my favourite things about playing Willow is how you can just _laugh_ merrily through the flames.  I'm willing to put up with the occasional "Oops I burned my whole base down" for a character who can, say, start a forest fire JUST to keep warm on the way back home in winter.  (Yes, I've done that.  It crept up on me and I had no winter gear on hand, and I was like "Oh (BLEEP) oh (BLEEP) oh (BLEEP) what do I do?! I'm way far away from all my winter stuff!"  And because I was _Willow_...)

I dunno.  I very much realise why no spontaneous-fire thing in multiplayer! but they changed her SO much that now, she's not..._fun_.  For me.  All her freaky supernatural stuff--basically, EVERYTHING I talked about in the above post--is gone.  Her lighter has durability like everything else (but Woodie's axe is still infinite!) and although she's "resistant" to fire, she still gets this huge down-arrow when standing "too" close to it and that's just WRONG.  Her new disadvantage now hurts _only_ her, not anyone else (can't keep warm while insane) which makes more sense for multiplayer, but again--not _fun_!

She's a high-risk AND high-reward character in the normal version, and I'm willing to pay the risk to have the invincible GODDESS OF HELLFIRE, traipsing through the blaze!  (And even the "oops!" is manageable if you keep her away from base until she calms down.)  In multiplayer I can't do that anymore, and pretty much her main advantage is that she _starts off_ with the lighter so you don't die on the first night if you can't find enough grass/twigs/flint in time.  Sure, that's useful!--but not _interesting_. 

I just want the infinite lighter OR the fire immunity back.  I know we can't possibly have both, but can't we have _one_?    We could keep the freezes-when-insane thing to balance it out...

All I know is, when I go through the characters in Together, I have no actual gameplay _reason_ to pick Willow--and that makes me sad.

...Notorious

[Scoobie101]

14 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

Kinda yeah.  I figured out the other day, that whenever I go to say one of Wendy's quotes out loud, my voice just _automatically_ ends up sounding like Wednesday from the Addams Family movies.  "Are they made from real Girl Scouts?" that kind of tone.  And it took me a while to even realise that's what I was doing!  : P

As for Willow being "nerfed into boring pointlessness"...she's not only one of my faves--she is, oddly enough, the character I've set _all my records with_ and that wasn't even on purpose.  I'm just really, really sad that her lighter is now like anything else and fire DOES hurt her.  One of my favourite things about playing Willow is how you can just _laugh_ merrily through the flames.  I'm willing to put up with the occasional "Oops I burned my whole base down" for a character who can, say, start a forest fire JUST to keep warm on the way back home in winter.  (Yes, I've done that.  It crept up on me and I had no winter gear on hand, and I was like "Oh (BLEEP) oh (BLEEP) oh (BLEEP) what do I do?! I'm way far away from all my winter stuff!"  And because I was _Willow_...)

I dunno.  I very much realise why no spontaneous-fire thing in multiplayer! but they changed her SO much that now, she's not..._fun_.  For me.  All her freaky supernatural stuff--basically, EVERYTHING I talked about in the above post--is gone.  Her lighter has durability like everything else (but Woodie's axe is still infinite!) and although she's "resistant" to fire, she still gets this huge down-arrow when standing "too" close to it and that's just WRONG.  Her new disadvantage now hurts _only_ her, not anyone else (can't keep warm while insane) which makes more sense for multiplayer, but again--not _fun_!

She's a high-risk AND high-reward character in the normal version, and I'm willing to pay the risk to have the invincible GODDESS OF HELLFIRE, traipsing through the blaze!  (And even the "oops!" is manageable if you keep her away from base until she calms down.)  In multiplayer I can't do that anymore, and pretty much her main advantage is that she _starts off_ with the lighter so you don't die on the first night if you can't find enough grass/twigs/flint in time.  Sure, that's useful!--but not _interesting_. 

I just want the infinite lighter OR the fire immunity back.  I know we can't possibly have both, but can't we have _one_?    We could keep the freezes-when-insane thing to balance it out...

All I know is, when I go through the characters in Together, I have no actual gameplay _reason_ to pick Willow--and that makes me sad.

...Notorious

I just like a portable campfire, plus lighters are pretty cheap. But I don't think fire immunity or infinite lighters would do her justice. Personally I just want her to have the ability to turn herself into a human torch again, either way she needs another fire oriented perk to make her feel more firestarter-y. Bernie's cute, but he isn't very... Fire related. 

[Arlesienne]

This is getting off-topic.

...blast that. "Carborundum" Jade's unique for Borogravian standards due to being a troll (same for Maladict/a). Drinking problems notwithstanding. In general, the book is not about strange new powers, but the dynamics of an oppressive system and the constant warfare. It is about people. Nothing freakish here.

At any rate, Willow the Unnerfed really stays much closer to her DS lore self. Lighters are cheap, but as Notorious said, it creates a discrepancy between Lucy the axe and the Codex Umbra. Wes's balloon stack too to an extent. The reason for Willow, Wendy, Webber and Woodie making such a fitting team is having something beyond our definition of reality ("What we call Normality is just a circle of light around the fire" - nobody needs to introduce the quote here, I reckon). Woodie has been nerfed too, but did not lose the concept of werebeaverness. Willow sort of ended up stranded way away from her fire issue. I know at least two people who always beg for Willow the Unnerfed. They are into lore, obviously. I cannot blame them. The griefing issue has always appeared a tad overblown to me. Webber can easily grief through spiders. Maxwell can hoard all resources through his puppets AND spawn treeguards. Wendy's Abigail decimates mobs (well, aggravates them - her efficiency is disputable, but she does not let this deter her). Wickerbottom has overpowered books - "Sleepy Time Stories" for stealing, "The End Is Nigh" and "On Tentacles" for damage. Somehow the devs only drastically nerfed Willow (despite her already-lower stats). I still love picking Willow when joining other servers, but the lore is sorely missed.

PS Bernie has phonetic connotations with burning. Just saying.

[Scoobie101]

Well, when relating Willow to book/novel characters shouldn't we keep in mind other things Willow has talked in her quotes or things that are hinted at? Like her (probable) lack of a father figure or being in Girl Scouts or that she once met a watermelon named Walter who was apparently a jerk? ( seriously, is that watermelon line a reference or just really random )

[CaptainChaotica]

I completely forgot Bernie in my above post! (smacks forehead)  That should tell you how often I've picked Willow in Together.  I think the only times I've played as her is if I got her after hitting "Random", frankly.  That said, I am of course _aware_ of Bernie. When Sim-Willow, on her very first try, won _a teddy bear_ of all things at the summer carnival, I of course instantly named it Bernie.

...it was a CYBORG teddy bear, but nobody's perfect... : P  It's like the game was on the same _page_ as me? but not the same paragraph.

(I couldn't make her a pyromaniac (Sims doesn't get that dark without mods), but I could make her a KLEPTOmaniac*, and if you just ignore that trait for long enough...they'll _autonomously_ steal something.  Meaning that Sim-Willow has more of an actual impulse control problem than the Together version of the original!)

The reason I want to play Willow as her normal self in Together isn't so much the lore, although that's part of it.  It's because the original was _more FUN to play_.  True, I am annoyed that they took her so far away from her firestarter self that it's pretty much just lip-service now-- but the main thing is that I enjoyed playing a crazy character that I could actually BE crazy with!  Sure, it involves strange powers, but the main thing is that it's _fun_ to do something that would normally be deadly and just laugh at it.

Now she's just...normal.  There's really nothing special about her. She doesn't..._feel_ different, or unique to play, like the others you mentioned.  She's lost her colour.  Just kind of...generic, now.  I've heard one player call her "another Wilson who can't grow a beard" and...well...not exactly, but...

Unfortunately griefing is a thing, and even more unfortunately, since PvP exists as an option, they HAVE to balance characters around _both_ styles, friendly and not.  I get this.  It's just really sad in this case, because this time, the few a-holes who abused the character REALLY ruined it for the rest of us.

...Notorious

*I also gave her the "loves the heat" trait.  Guess what this ALSO doesn't protect you from?  That's right, kids!  Say it with me:  _overheating_!

[Arlesienne]

Willow appears smarter than Wilson, more focused on right here, right now as opposed to his "For Science!", but it is just a personal opinion. She has quite a bit of lore behind her. The nerfing worked pretty much like you summed it up. A pity, though I am not particularly vocal about unnerfing her. There is always the mod if you play on your own server. It is sad though.

[CaptainChaotica]

Well, I don't think Willow is ACTUALLY like Wilson...I think the person who said that meant more like, she _plays_ closer to the way he plays, in Together.  They're obviously quite different people, personality-wise.

As for a mod, I _cannot_ get my server to show up on the list, and nobody ever comes in.  And it's not like nobody else WOULD join me.  I've got several Steam/DST friends who follow me onto OTHER servers just fine.  Obviously there's something wrong on my end--but every time I look that stuff up here on the forums, it makes my head spin!  I find a thread called "My server doesn't show up on the list", get my hopes up, click on it to see a whole page of numbers and symbols I can't read at all...and hit the back button.  I don't know pings, protocols and ports!  I want a _simple_ "Oh, just hit this option instead" solution, but that's not gonna happen.

...and using a mod to make Willow her normal self doesn't _feel_ right.  First of all, I'm a "no mods until I get good at the game the way it was intended first" kinda player/new enough to Don't Starve in general that I'm not bored with the actual canon content yet.  

Secondly, that doesn't ACTUALLY fix the problem.  I want Willow at least somewhat back to cool and interesting for realsies.  To use a mod first requires you to know that it exists, and then how to install it.  This is side information; not presented in the game itself where everyone can just walk up and read it. 

I _could_ use the mod myself, but since nobody can come into my servers it's basically singleplayer with the new Together stuff added. Which would be cool if that's what I was going for. But I can ALREADY play real-Willow in singleplayer!  I kinda want to play her _with others_.

But, this is the official, proper release version, so it's unlikely any changes THAT big will be happening now...

...Notorious

[Arlesienne]

Notorious, would you like us to look into that server issue together? I cannot guarantee I will be able to help, but we can certainly give it a try. I would gladly join (if it does not lag due to distance - for example my pals lag, myself included, when any person other than my insignificant person hosts because of being spread around the world, but it all works in 60 FPS when I host and they join) or invite you to any of my servers you like. Willow is back to her fiery self there too.

About Willow and Wilson: I know what you mean. The similarities are not that close though. Wilson has higher stats and natural insulation. Most people seem to use Willow for charcoal, ashes and lighters now. The personality vanishes. Which is a shame. Willow has many interesting traits and is fun to play. The nerfing really caused her harm.

[hyiltiz]

Oh, I thought this thread was about how Willow in DST sucks. Anyway, as I were discussing with a friend who ONLY plays Willow earlier today, we should nerf Willow even more by:

1. Making her speed as fast as Snurtles;
2. Making her HP as high as Butterflies;
3. Give her Dragonfly triple stomp at super low sanity at random instead of Freezing;
4. Keep her not immune to Fire as if she was not a Queen of Fire;

Speaking of Fire, I recall, as they say in the Song of Ice and Fire (does it have anything to do with ice and fire, may I ask, first?), we also need someone who brings Ice. Not Deerclops. Not Blue Hounds. Dragonfly and Fire Hound brought Fire along with Willow. No one brought Ice along with Deerclops and Ice Hounds. They are lonely.

[Arlesienne]

10 minutes ago, hyiltiz said:

Oh, I thought this thread was about how Willow in DST sucks. Anyway, as I were discussing with a friend who ONLY plays Willow earlier today, we should nerf Willow even more by:

1. Making her speed as fast as Snurtles;
2. Making her HP as high as Butterflies;
3. Give her Dragonfly triple stomp at super low sanity at random instead of Freezing;
4. Keep her not immune to Fire as if she was not a Queen of Fire;

Speaking of Fire, I recall, as they say in the Song of Ice and Fire (does it have anything to do with ice and fire, may I ask, first?), we also need someone who brings Ice. Not Deerclops. Not Blue Hounds. Dragonfly and Fire Hound brought Fire along with Willow. No one brought Ice along with Deerclops and Ice Hounds. They are lonely.

Your sarcasm is admirable :). The ice-themed character could be interesting indeed. And the book is supposed to refer to ice giants (ice) and dragons (fire)... but do not make me start on everything that is wrong with it ;).

[hyiltiz]

8 minutes ago, Arlesienne said:

Your sarcasm is admirable :). The ice-themed character could be interesting indeed. And the book is supposed to refer to ice giants (ice) and dragons (fire)... but do not make me start on everything that is wrong with it ;).

And, thence born Wice, a young prince who brought Ice to the World. Or call her Elsa if that is a princess not prince; oh, I meant Welsa. Or Wolaf?

 

[Arlesienne]

3 minutes ago, hyiltiz said:

And, thence born Wice, a young prince who brought Ice to the World. Or call her Elsa if that is a princess not prince; oh, I meant Welsa.

Welp :D. I wonder if the easiest - Wynter, which is supposedly indeed used - would work. Oh, and Weather, the master of weather pain, morning stars, rain and lightning who can ride volt goats.

...I crave mods like the ideas above.