Breezy Vest UNDERPOWERED? :O

[ToastyMcGee]

I noticed that, while playing Don't Starve Together, the Breezy Vest (a clothing item to survive winter) is a bit useless. At first, I thought it actually had more insulation points than it actually has (only 60, which is the equivalent to rabbit earmuffs, which is incredibly easy to craft). Since the crafting materials (1 koalefant trunk, 9 silk) were kind of expensivo when you don't have a great source for silk, which can only be obtained through killing spiders or breaking their nest, I thought it would at least have tier 2 warmth, which is 120 insulation points. Turns out, there is no tier 2 warm clothing for the shirt slot; only the hat space, which is the winter hat. Since it's kind of a waste to use those mats for a weak warmth shirt, I usually survive winter only using rabbit earmuffs and 2 thermal stones.

All in all, breezy shirt is UP, please buff. Or at least add a tier 2 warm clothing for the shirt slot, per favor.

[PanAzej]

I guess it's meant to be a cheap alternative to Dapper Vest. Except it has some insulation n stuff.

Oh, and I see it has some protection from rain as well... This item is jack-of-all-trades, master of none. It does a bit everything but is not actually good at anything.

[Serph]

11 hours ago, PanAzej said:

I guess it's meant to be a cheap alternative to Dapper Vest. Except it has some insulation n stuff.

Oh, and I see it has some protection from rain as well... This item is jack-of-all-trades, master of none. It does a bit everything but is not actually good at anything.

What? Dapper vest has the same lvl 1 insulation as Breezy Vest. You can get 100% water resistance wih hat + umbrella, so the chest slot is much better spent with an armor or backpack. Breezy Vest isn't bad but it's not worth the price and effort.

[PanAzej]

1 minute ago, Serph said:

What? Dapper vest has the same lvl 1 insulation as Breezy Vest. You can get 100% water resistance wih hat + umbrella, so the chest slot is much better spent with an armor or backpack. Breezy Vest isn't bad but it's not worth the price and effort.

Huh, didn't know that Dapper vest also gives insulation (I almost never use it)... But, since you can get a Koalefant on day 1, but you can't get so many teeth, you could craft yourself that Breezy Vest early on. But early on you need a backpack more than anything...

It's like that Basic Farm. Nobody really uses it. Except while Basic Farm is usually crafted by new players, Breezy Vest is too hard to craft for newbies and is most of the time skipped by better players.

+40 HP is a much better use of Summer Koalefant's Trunk.

[Serph]

Just now, PanAzej said:

Huh, didn't know that Dapper vest also gives insulation (I almost never use it)... But, since you can get a Koalefant on day 1, but you can't get so many teeth, you could craft yourself that Breezy Vest early on. But early on you need a backpack more than anything...

It's like that Basic Farm. Nobody really uses it. Except while Basic Farm is usually crafted by new players, Breezy Vest is too hard to craft for newbies and is most of the time skipped by better players.

+40 HP is a much better use of Summer Koalefant's Trunk.

You also need 8 silks and an alchemy to craft, so it's not exactly an "early easy to make" item and even then, the cooked trunk is much more helpful early on before you get a pot.

That's the problem with breezy vest. I don't think i ever seen a single player make one, both newbies or experienced. Top hat is easier and cover sanity/water res and that level 1 insulation isn't enough to make me drop my backpack.

[ToastyMcGee]

Concerning the dropping of the backpack to wear another thing, there's a mod that lets you equip a shirt PLUS  a backpack; it's called extra slots, I think. It's really helpful, as it makes sense that you can wear a backpack whilst wearing a shirt, you know?

[Quyzbuk]

4 hours ago, ToastyMcGee said:

Concerning the dropping of the backpack to wear another thing, there's a mod that lets you equip a shirt PLUS  a backpack; it's called extra slots, I think. It's really helpful, as it makes sense that you can wear a backpack whilst wearing a shirt, you know?

That also significantly reduces any challenges posed, which is NOT something you should be balancing around.

The vest is fine as is. It's your "better-than-nothing" tier of insulation, just like the straw armor is when it comes to protection. You wouldn't want to willingly make it, but when you need a little something extra (or something at all), it's a good thing to have, especially in an environment with other players where you might toss them something to keep them warm, or find yourself grabbing whatever you can for yourself when nothing else seems available.

[Serph]

1 hour ago, Quyzbuk said:

That also significantly reduces any challenges posed, which is NOT something you should be balancing around.

The vest is fine as is. It's your "better-than-nothing" tier of insulation, just like the straw armor is when it comes to protection. You wouldn't want to willingly make it, but when you need a little something extra (or something at all), it's a good thing to have, especially in an environment with other players where you might toss them something to keep them warm, or find yourself grabbing whatever you can for yourself when nothing else seems available.

Not really. It might be "cheating" but most of the time using a backpack is better than any clothing and you have easier to make hats to cover any of your problems. Armor is necessary but you can simply carry it inside your backpack and only wear it before a battle. It's a very fun mod because it gives people reason to craft clothes.

Earmuffs fulfill the "better than nothing insulation" role way better. Those aren't even comparable, you can make a grass suit on day 1 with things on the ground, while Breezy vest needs 1 koalefant (which requires luck, time and/or a boomerang), 8 silk (kill an average of 40 spiders), and an alchemy engine. It's not something you can make on spot when you need, it requires time and effort.

Grass suit is a provisory armor you make for emergencies, how exactly can someone become so desperate they're forced to make a breezy vest for insulation? If it's not winter, you don't need the insulation, you might as well eat the trunk and make a top hat. By the time winter comes you already have at least a winter hat + thermal stone, and there is no reason to pick breezy vest over backpack (8 extra slots), dapper vest (easier to get teeth from ice hounds) or puffy vest (literally 4 times better).

tl;dr: Breezy Vest is too hard to make for how low it helps. If you can make this vest, you don't need insulation and by the time you need insulation you don't need the vest because you (should) have acess to better items hahaha...

[Quyzbuk]

2 hours ago, Serph said:

Earmuffs fulfill the "better than nothing insulation" role way better. Those aren't even comparable, you can make a grass suit on day 1 with things on the ground, while Breezy vest needs 1 koalefant (which requires luck, time and/or a boomerang), 8 silk (kill an average of 40 spiders), and an alchemy engine. It's not something you can make on spot when you need, it requires time and effort.
Grass suit is a provisory armor you make for emergencies, how exactly can someone become so desperate they're forced to make a breezy vest for insulation? If it's not winter, you don't need the insulation, you might as well eat the trunk and make a top hat. By the time winter comes you already have at least a winter hat + thermal stone, and there is no reason to pick breezy vest over backpack (8 extra slots), dapper vest (easier to get teeth from ice hounds) or puffy vest (literally 4 times better).

It's not a case of being 'forced' to do anything here, it's simply whether or not it is worth crafting. 

Rabbit earmuffs are comparable at best, being even more of a "better-than-nothing" than the breezy vest as they have 1/3rd of the durability (5 days) and give zero sanity gain or other perks. You would only really consider those if you don't have access to an alchemy engine since a thermal stone is more than enough to get most people through winter. 

Dapper vests require almost as much silk, have less durability, occupies your chest slot, and like the earmuffs, give zero wetness protection. That last point is important because if you're doing any DST spelunking during winter, it does sometimes rain in the caves during the season. The wetness protection also helps in the transition to spring.

But we're not talking about what to make in the thick of winter though, we're talking about the transition to winter. You won't have access to winter koalefants yet so puffy vest is out the question (not to mention it would include all your previous points against the breezy vest and then some since you need beefalo fur as well). Ice hounds also don't start spawning until the winter season is in effect, and fighting more than 2 of those at a time can get unpleasant particularly depending on where you encounter them, so dapper vests probably won't be prioritized either.

Granted it's always nice to have extra slots from any of the 4 types of backpacks, and I (probably) wouldn't argue against dropping the prototyping requirement down to the science machine level for this particular item, but if you're going to use more than just a thermal stone for winter and want to supplement it, the breezy vest really isn't hard to make and still provides utility in the other seasons.

Is it the best option? No. Is it a viable option? Yes.

[Serph]

2 hours ago, Quyzbuk said:

It's not a case of being 'forced' to do anything here, it's simply whether or not it is worth crafting. 

Rabbit earmuffs are comparable at best, being even more of a "better-than-nothing" than the breezy vest as they have 1/3rd of the durability (5 days) and give zero sanity gain or other perks. You would only really consider those if you don't have access to an alchemy engine since a thermal stone is more than enough to get most people through winter. 

Dapper vests require almost as much silk, have less durability, occupies your chest slot, and like the earmuffs, give zero wetness protection. That last point is important because if you're doing any DST spelunking during winter, it does sometimes rain in the caves during the season. The wetness protection also helps in the transition to spring.

But we're not talking about what to make in the thick of winter though, we're talking about the transition to winter. You won't have access to winter koalefants yet so puffy vest is out the question (not to mention it would include all your previous points against the breezy vest and then some since you need beefalo fur as well). Ice hounds also don't start spawning until the winter season is in effect, and fighting more than 2 of those at a time can get unpleasant particularly depending on where you encounter them, so dapper vests probably won't be prioritized either.

Granted it's always nice to have extra slots from any of the 4 types of backpacks, and I (probably) wouldn't argue against dropping the prototyping requirement down to the science machine level for this particular item, but if you're going to use more than just a thermal stone for winter and want to supplement it, the breezy vest really isn't hard to make and still provides utility in the other seasons.

Is it the best option? No. Is it a viable option? Yes.

Earmuffs doesn't take a chest slot and it's so easy to make the durability hardly matters. If you're desperate for insulation, it's much better.

"Occupies a chest slot" also works against breezy vest. If wetness is such a problem, a top hat can give you the same resistance, more sanity and costs less. By the time spring comes you should have at least an umbrella + hat / rain hat (both very easy to make) which work much better and dont take my backpack. Spring comes after winter, "theorically speaking", breezy vest is already worthless because Puffy became avaiable.

First autumn, beefalo wool is easy to get, and any person with common sense will get some for a winter/beefalo hat, puffy gives 240 insulation, so "cost wise" it's ridiculously superior. Dapper Vest in winter isn't a priority, it's a bonus. Everybody wants their own walking cane and Tam, each mcTusk has 2 ice hounds which drop 2 teeth each. Only 2 McTusks are enough to get 8 teeth and make a dapper, giving you the same insulation and more sanity for less silk.

That sounds smart, but i already supplement my thermal stone with a Winter hat that gives me 120 insulation, 1.3 sanity per minute and while it "only" lasts 10 days, it costs 4 silk instead of 8. Breezy IS undeniably hard to make. If you have 5 players, that's 5 trunks not eaten and 40 silk you have to get. If somehow that doesn't sound much, remember that DST players come and go all the time, some join halfway, some don't know how to play, some quit and take their resources with them etc. 

It doesn't matter how good you are, you won't make enough breezy vests to keep up with the player demand for winter (That's why the thermal stone durability nerf was one of the worst things that ever happened). Winter hats costs less time, resources and is twice warmer, it's not that hard to make one for each player.

It's not "viable" at all. You'll never hear someone say "Guys, we need to make breezy vests ASAP!" Every other option is more accessible and/or more efficient. Top hat has more sanity / same wet res. Winter hat gives double insulation. Both easier to make and don't take a backpack. 

[ToastyMcGee]

Concerning the thermal stone durability, There is a mod for that as well, which reverts the thermal stone to it's original form, as in unlimited uses.

[PanAzej]

5 hours ago, ToastyMcGee said:

Concerning the thermal stone durability, There is a mod for that as well, which reverts the thermal stone to it's original form, as in unlimited uses.

We're talking about game balance here, not about mods. Yes, we know that there are modifications like "infinite durability clothes and tools" or whatever easy-mode thing you could add, but we discuss here an item which is considered useless by many players. Maybe it will receive some tweak, who knows.

[ToastyMcGee]

12 hours ago, PanAzej said:

We're talking about game balance here, not about mods. Yes, we know that there are modifications like "infinite durability clothes and tools" or whatever easy-mode thing you could add, but we discuss here an item which is considered useless by many players. Maybe it will receive some tweak, who knows.

Alrighty, sorry about that. :[

[Gingerbread]

my priority is always backpack.. I never leave my backpack to use these items and i ve never seen someone using these items (5%). People mostly prefer backpack as it makes these items really useless. It is just useless to give up 8 slots to get more insulation. Makes no sense. Make 2 thermal stones for winter and u are all set. U don't even need a winter hat, beefalo hat or anything. Put on ur helm..

[BeastNips]

Is it just me, or does the thermal stone keep its heat way longer is DST than it did in single player? I find Winter in DST doesn't really restrict movement as much as it seemed to in DS. 

OP: Breezy vest is useless. I can't see any situation in which I'd ever use it. 

[BorhilIan]

On 2/21/2016 at 5:25 PM, BeastNips said:

Is it just me, or does the thermal stone keep its heat way longer is DST than it did in single player? I find Winter in DST doesn't really restrict movement as much as it seemed to in DS. 

OP: Breezy vest is useless. I can't see any situation in which I'd ever use it. 

I think the thermal stones are well balanced given the default world size and how long it takes to get around. I've only rarely gotten a base where I had everything I needed only a minute or two away. Thermal stone is usually cold by the time I get back and I never do get all the resources I set out for.