15 minute AFK timer

[leonseye]

Just a quick suggestion for a 15 minute AFK timer to eject players from servers.

Thought this might help to combat idlers for skins who are only interested in selling them on the marketplace, now that tradeability has been turned on.

Obviously, this can also be circumvented by those who are going to go out of their way to do so, but it may discourage those less savvy.

Alternatively, perhaps there could be a different trigger than simple "time logged in" to receiving skins, which I much prefer to an AFK timer.  Only problem is that I'm not quite sure how best to accomplish this one.  : /

[WillowCrocker]

Pretty sure that's a thing, actually. The new "movement prediction enabled", along with cutting people off from the server after a bit has proven it. 

[leonseye]

On 2/13/2016 at 0:45 AM, WillowCrocker said:

Pretty sure that's a thing, actually. The new "movement prediction enabled", along with cutting people off from the server after a bit has proven it. 

Since it's come to light that people being kicked from the server was actually nothing more than a bug, I'd like to go ahead and bump this suggestion again.

If not an AFK timer, can we PLEASE at least deactivate eligibility for skin drops while using Godmode?  If the idea is to receive skin drops for playing the game, can we at least make people PLAY the game?

[werlpolf]

15 hours ago, leonseye said:

If not an AFK timer, can we PLEASE at least deactivate eligibility for skin drops while using Godmode?

This has been already discussed. Idlers would find easily other methods to idle around, since the game can be modded and manipulated freely and legally in quite any way. Restricting mods and console commands like c_godmode() would be counterproductive for the creation, development and usage of mods

[leonseye]

3 hours ago, werlpolf said:

This has been already discussed. Idlers would find easily other methods to idle around, since the game can be modded and manipulated freely and legally in quite any way. Restricting mods and console commands like c_godmode() would be counterproductive for the creation, development and usage of mods

You could still use c_godmode(), and I find it hard to believe that there would be a case for mod development that absolutely NEEDS to also receive skin drops while godmode is active.

There certainly would be other roundabout methods of idling, but w/ skin drops during godmode disabled, it would make it much more difficult for the general playerbase.

Just because it could still be done somehow doesn't strike me as a reason to continue making it so ridiculously EASY to circumvent the entire idea of "play the game and get drops" by just godmoding and idling.

As it stands, the skin drop system is a joke.  I hate to say that, as I love Klei and their games, and I have tons of respect for the DST dev team (probably moreso than any other dev team currently), but it's the truth.

The concept is sound; "play the game and get drops for the time you spent in game".  We just need to shore up a few of the leaks so that it's not so easy to completely bypass that concept and turn it into "run this on my 2nd monitor for free skins while I play other games".

Because, I can tell you, that is exactly what I do a lot of the time, and I am hardly alone.

[werlpolf]

1 hour ago, leonseye said:

There certainly would be other roundabout methods of idling, but w/ skin drops during godmode disabled, it would make it much more difficult for the general playerbase.

Just because it could still be done somehow doesn't strike me as a reason to continue making it so ridiculously EASY to circumvent the entire idea of "play the game and get drops" by just godmoding and idling.

As it stands, the skin drop system is a joke.  I hate to say that, as I love Klei and their games, and I have tons of respect for the DST dev team (probably moreso than any other dev team currently), but it's the truth.

I absolutely agree, but I need to accept it like it is and actually its fine, because I am not in love with skins.

 

1 hour ago, leonseye said:

We just need to shore up a few of the leaks so that it's not so easy to completely bypass

I agree, but...

 

 

[leonseye]

I have read that thread as well, but @PeterA refers directly to ways to circumvent an AFK timer, and he's right.  But there isn't anything there about simply disabling skin drops while godmode is active.

I know that's not as "simple" as I make it sound, but it seems more effective than my original AFK timer suggestion anyway and combats the same problem.

[Muche]

The godmode (through console) is only one (albeit the simplest) way how to idle.

Examples of other ways that could be used to help with idling: setting world settings to no monsters, setting godmode properties directly without using c_godmode command in the console, doing this via a mod without using console, doing this by directly changing the game code without using a mod, making the player gain 200hp/second, changing tuning values to give the player 1000 hunger/sanity/health, creating a specially designed place by spawning objects, e.g. a field of Houndius Shootiuses.

A solution that doesn't work in 100% cases won't affect precisely those people you want it to (idlers who sell the skins on the marketplace).

[Serph]

Console commands were never necessary for idling at all. Remove god mode gifts and people will simply download Wilton (A character mod that never starves) and generate a world devoid of any danger (morning and autumn only, no hounds and giants, no weather) and BAM, you're idleing "by the rules" just as good. And it's not too effort for the general playerbase, you can do all of this in less than 5 minutes.

 

2 hours ago, leonseye said:

The concept is sound; "play the game and get drops for the time you spent in game".  We just need to shore up a few of the leaks so that it's not so easy to completely bypass that concept and turn it into "run this on my 2nd monitor for free skins while I play other games".

Because, I can tell you, that is exactly what I do a lot of the time, and I am hardly alone.

Why can't people "exploit the system" if you're exploiting it too? You said in a lot of other threads that skins are worth what people want to pay for them and they have no impact on who doesn't care. Why is this a big deal now?

[Gingerbread]

2 hours ago, leonseye said:

I have read that thread as well, but @PeterA refers directly to ways to circumvent an AFK timer, and he's right.  But there isn't anything there about simply disabling skin drops while godmode is active.

I know that's not as "simple" as I make it sound, but it seems more effective than my original AFK timer suggestion anyway and combats the same problem.

I am sure alternative ways can easily be found such as special worldgen with mods. Like no hound attack no waves, no boss, no night world in which game also regenerates your health point and hunger and sanity over time or a mod that emulates god mode. Also as Peter said, game also won't know that you are afk. there is also mods that unboxes your gifts instead of you. Idk any solution seems like impossible for this game.. If you remove skin drops for modded servers, everyone will be playing on vanilla servers which will force all servers to remove mods and that will kill modding, and that will like ignoring whole modding community. I see no possible solution and I am sure devs would solve the problem if they knew a solution cuz it is a well known complaint..

[leonseye]

33 minutes ago, Serph said:

Why can't people "exploit the system" if you're exploiting it too? You said in a lot of other threads that skins are worth what people want to pay for them and they have no impact on who doesn't care. Why is this a big deal now?

It's never been a BIG deal, but it IS an issue and should be addressed, and if not, then I think the community would like to know how Klei actually feels about people godmode AFK'ing for skins and then selling those skins on the marketplace.

I have no issue w/ people "exploiting the system"; I've never been happy w/ the "idle for X hours, get drops" mechanic.  I have also said in a lot of other threads that the system itself could use an overhaul for this reason and, since it's really the only way for people who have demanding jobs to actually ever SEE their 4th drop, godmode away.  

It's not skill-based or even based on whether you are at your computer.  Why not do it?  It seems designed for exactly that.

I feel that "play game, get skins" is sound, but that's not the system we have.  If that is the goal of the system, then I am making my suggestion so that behavior circumventing the spirit of the system is curbed at least a TINY bit, if not in earnest.

We are still in Early Access, if I'm not mistaken, and this would be the time to raise and address these types of concerns, or at least possibly hear the devs' mindset as to why those concerns aren't a productive use of resources, which I understand they may not be.

[leonseye]

1 hour ago, Muche said:

The godmode (through console) is only one (albeit the simplest) way how to idle.

Examples of other ways that could be used to help with idling: setting world settings to no monsters, setting godmode properties directly without using c_godmode command in the console, doing this via a mod without using console, doing this by directly changing the game code without using a mod, making the player gain 200hp/second, changing tuning values to give the player 1000 hunger/sanity/health, creating a specially designed place by spawning objects, e.g. a field of Houndius Shootiuses.

A solution that doesn't work in 100% cases won't affect precisely those people you want it to (idlers who sell the skins on the marketplace).

This is probably true, but I do feel that we don't need to make it SO stupidly easy to do it that you'd almost be foolish not to utilize it.

For you, all of that seems pretty simple for a workaround, but I could tell you that if I were to tell my friends to do this blurb that you just wrote instead of just typing "c_godmode()", none of them would bother.

But you're right, those that are determined to do it will find a way to do it, no matter what.  Does that mean we should just give up from the very beginning so that everybody does it, though?

[Serph]

39 minutes ago, leonseye said:

It's never been a BIG deal, but it IS an issue and should be addressed, and if not, then I think the community would like to know how Klei actually feels about people godmode AFK'ing for skins and then selling those skins on the marketplace.

I have no issue w/ people "exploiting the system"; I've never been happy w/ the "idle for X hours, get drops" mechanic.  I have also said in a lot of other threads that the system itself could use an overhaul for this reason and, since it's really the only way for people who have demanding jobs to actually ever SEE their 4th drop, godmode away.  

It's not skill-based or even based on whether you are at your computer.  Why not do it?  It seems designed for exactly that.

I feel that "play game, get skins" is sound, but that's not the system we have.  If that is the goal of the system, then I am making my suggestion so that behavior circumventing the spirit of the system is curbed at least a TINY bit, if not in earnest.

The system will never be skill based. Skins are free filler content for players and Klei's stance with achievement/rewards goes against that. Playing the game doesn't make you more "deserving" of skins, anyone can grief for hours and has the same chance as someone who plays normally or idles.

Why is it an issue and why should it be adressed? Klei went back on their word to make everything marketable and they get part of every transaction and because trade inn is coming "nobody is losing anything". 

In other topics, you always defended the market because "it allows you to skip time playing to get skins you want" and "it won't hurt anyone because items are worth what people want to pay" (which didn't happen at all, Steam trading area is dying at light speed because market gave a fixed price to everything) and yet here you are, so intent in making idling for skins hard as possible to combat idlers who want to sell skins in the market?

I don't understand.

[leonseye]

15 minutes ago, Serph said:

The system will never be skill based. Skins are free filler content for players and Klei's stance with achievement/rewards goes against that. Playing the game doesn't make you more "deserving" of skins, anyone can grief for hours and has the same chance as someone who plays normally or idles.

Why is it an issue and why should it be adressed? Klei went back on their word to make everything marketable and they get part of every transaction and because trade inn is coming "nobody is losing anything". 

In other topics, you always defended the market because "it allows you to skip time playing to get skins you want" and "it won't hurt anyone because items are worth what people want to pay" (which didn't happen at all, Steam trading area is dying at light speed because market gave a fixed price to everything) and yet here you are, so intent in making idling for skins hard as possible to combat idlers who want to sell skins in the market?

I don't understand.

These issues are completely unrelated, so I can see why it's hard for you to understand.

The market and Trade Inn fixed the problems of people getting scammed regularly w/out any real idea of what the going rate actually was, and also only being able to purchase skins w/ very niche currencies that were artificially inflating their price because not as many people want keys as much as actual cash, thus choking supply.

This particular issue is on the opposite end of the spectrum, where the spirit of the skin drop system (play the game, get cool skins) is being directly circumvented by an extremely easy means that is available to every player w/out even having to touch a mod.  I'm not actually super concerned w/ people selling said skins, but it is a way to benefit monetarily from this breach of that spirit.

I don't want it to be skill-based, and I suppose that wasn't well-worded.  What I mean is that it isn't and likely won't be, but the system we have in place is basically just a timer based on how long you're logged in.  If you don't have a lot of time to actually play the game (I work a lot and am a tank for friends in another game, which has a loosely set schedule.. <.< ), then why not just type out a few letters and idle while alt-tabbed?

I don't really like that system, though, and I'm fine w/ not benefiting from godmode idling in the future if it does help to shore up some of the more immediate holes in an otherwise fine concept.  I'd love for there to be a different system altogether, based on player actions, but I have absolutely no idea how that would even work...  so instead, I'm really just making a suggestion that I thought made sense when looking at the concept of "play the game, get cool drops".  

"Play the game" is half of that concept, and I personally feel that it's just a little TOO easy to get away w/ not doing that part.

[KitcheVadimas]

I think it should be 5 minutes, with a warning at the 4th minute, rather than 15, but I want an afk timer for an entirely different reason; people going afk, then dying to darkness, hound attacks, sanity monsters, hunger, ect.  On the server I run, AFKing is specifically against the rules for these reasons.  Idlers are something that will always exist on any game with random drops, and they're only a minor inconvenience to actual players; just avoid idle servers.  

It would be nice if we could blacklist servers we didn't like so we don't accidentally re-enter an idle server.

[Healfree]

Well I like this idea really this might not just only counter the skins leechers it also counters the trolls that die and become ghost for eternity just to screw up with another people in a survival game .