Does the Guardian's Horn Falling into the Abyss Warrant Debug Spawning?

[DangWoodchuck]

I've went through TONS of Hell as Maxwell trying to get the Ancient Guardian's horn, and once I killed him, his horn fell into the abyss! I was debating with myself about whether it'd be alright or not to just debug spawn a horn in (I personally fall in the "no" category), but what would you  guys do in a situation like this? Would you be justified in debug spawning an extremely rare item? And no, rare but renewable ones within 1 world don't count, like giant loot and the Krampus Sack, but you can still convince others why you did.

[GalloViking]

Cheating can be justified in cases like this one. The game has cheated by throwing the horn into the abyss, so why wouldn't you cheat to get it back?

[t0panka]

Cheating can be justified in cases like this one. The game has cheated by throwing the horn into the abyss, so why wouldn't you cheat to get it back?

wut?

 

- you know stuff fall in water/abyss when you kill creature near it

- game doesnt cheat anything

- how about next time dont kill him near edge? O.o

- if you kill deerclops near water and eye fall there you will cheat it in?

- it is only your fault

- cheating is cheating

- to OP there are 2 more guardians so go for it

[GalloViking]

wut?

 

- you know stuff fall in water/abyss when you kill creature near it

- game doesnt cheat anything

- how about next time dont kill him near edge? O.o

- if you kill deerclops near water and eye fall there you will cheat it in?

- it is only your fault

- cheating is cheating

- to OP there are 2 more guardians so go for it

 

I was just kidding. But something like this ever happens to me, be sure that I'll spawn a new one or reload my game to defeat the mob again.

[DangWoodchuck]

- you know stuff fall in water/abyss when you kill creature near it

- game doesnt cheat anything

- how about next time dont kill him near edge? O.o

- if you kill deerclops near water and eye fall there you will cheat it in?

- it is only your fault

- cheating is cheating

- to OP there are 2 more guardians so go for it

- We all know the game never cheats. It's the player's fault (that's basically the answer to my question, but I have more to say).

- When one plays as Maxwell with low health and damaged armor after a death from the guardian, unaware of how much health the boss has left, they would most likely wanna get rid of the boss as soon as possible. I killed the Guardian near the edge because he ran there, and I couldn't afford to have him charge at me again.

- On one hand, items falling into the water/abyss is a way to get unreachable items out of the game to prevent lag, but on the other hand, it's like an unnecessary punishment to one's fighting style. After all, wasn't one main factor of Don't Starve about how one plays the game (I.e. cornering targets, but that's not me). Why punish someone for how they fight? You don't see people who bomb Dragonfly to death lose their scales.

- Debug spawning a Deerclops eyeball is pretty dumb, since (although rare) they are renewable. Spawning a guardian horn is debatable though, since they are only limited to 3 in total (in 1 world).

- What if someone wanted top security with 3 houndiui shootiui but finds that one/all of their horns have either been eaten by a cave spider (after they died from emerging out of the ruins and finding a nightmare beak waiting for them), fell into the abyss, or eaten by a dangling depths dweller while they were busy sorting their full inventory while trying to heal themselves? It's like looking all over the world for a mandrake (while it's raining), and when you finally find the only one, the rain happened to be strong enough to strike lightning specifically at the mandrake. In cases like these, is it really your fault for looking for a mandrake in the rain? Point is, there are some situations you can't control.

[t0panka]

- We all know the game never cheats. It's the player's fault (that's basically the answer to my question, but I have more to say).

- When one plays as Maxwell with low health and damaged armor after a death from the guardian, unaware of how much health the boss has left, they would most likely wanna get rid of the boss as soon as possible. I killed the Guardian near the edge because he ran there, and I couldn't afford to have him charge at me again.

- On one hand, items falling into the water/abyss is a way to get unreachable items out of the game to prevent lag, but on the other hand, it's like an unnecessary punishment to one's fighting style. After all, wasn't one main factor of Don't Starve about how one plays the game (I.e. cornering targets, but that's not me). Why punish someone for how they fight? You don't see people who bomb Dragonfly to death lose their scales.

- Debug spawning a Deerclops eyeball is pretty dumb, since (although rare) they are renewable. Spawning a guardian horn is debatable though, since they are only limited to 3 in total (in 1 world).

- What if someone wanted top security with 3 houndiui shootiui but finds that one/all of their horns have either been eaten by a cave spider (after they died from emerging out of the ruins and finding a nightmare beak waiting for them), fell into the abyss, or eaten by a dangling depths dweller while they were busy sorting their full inventory while trying to heal themselves? It's like looking all over the world for a mandrake (while it's raining), and when you finally find the only one, the rain happened to be strong enough to strike lightning specifically at the mandrake. In cases like these, is it really your fault for looking for a mandrake in the rain? Point is, there are some situations you can't control.

you probably cant tank deerclops because this game works like this so you wont even try (or die  trying) so game shouldnt kill you because tanking is your fighting style? There are plenty of strats for fighting so idk why you picked that one? OH you played Maxwell and he has low health? Well we need to take care of sanity in caves/ruins on top of that and any character vs giant has low health anyway. You killed him there because you couldnt afford to hit you again? Looks like you didnt prepare well = you get punished! Main factor of DS is punishment for unprepared players ... thats all

 

- you choose easier strat for fighting = you get punished!

- you want to kill giant with gunpowder? It is easy so you will get punished with their drops burning

- you have still 2 more horns or just jump world

- if someone wants top security with 3 HS then he should be extra careful not to make something stupid as kill him near edge right?

- eaten by cave spider = you didnt kill them before = punished

- eaten by dangling depths dweller = you didn't kill them before = punished

- "busy sorting inventory"? uhmm = punished 2x

- are you saying that it is games fault and you cant control when you look for mandrakes in heavy rain with lightning? O.o

[DangWoodchuck]

you probably cant tank deerclops because this game works like this so you wont even try (or die trying) so game shouldnt kill you because tanking is your fighting style? There are plenty of strats for fighting so idk why you picked that one? OH you played Maxwell and he has low health? Well we need to take care of sanity in caves/ruins on top of that and any character vs giant has low health anyway. You killed him there because you couldnt afford to hit you again? Looks like you didnt prepare well = you get punished! Main factor of DS is punishment for unprepared players ... thats all

- you choose easier strat for fighting = you get punished!

- you want to kill giant with gunpowder? It is easy so you will get punished with their drops burning

- you have still 2 more horns or just jump world

- if someone wants top security with 3 HS then he should be extra careful not to make something stupid as kill him near edge right?

- eaten by cave spider = you didnt kill them before = punished

- eaten by dangling depths dweller = you didn't kill them before = punished

- "busy sorting inventory"? uhmm = punished 2x

- are you saying that it is games fault and you cant control when you look for mandrakes in heavy rain with lightning? O.o

While I do see your point, you could've presented it in a less unkindly manner. This is a discussion, not an argument.

- Anyways, Dragonfly's loot doesn't burn (she is a hard boss, so I guess it evens things out) Also, I fight all bosses hand to hand (I even killed Dragonfly as Maxwell with 45 health, because I was prepared with jerky, night armor, a sword, and a crown).

- Ok, I get it, the unprepared get punished, but have you considered unpredictable moments? I.e. the depths dweller appearing because a nightmare creature triggered it. You're implying that I should simply kill anything and everything that moves (then again, it might be my fault for not leaving when the nightmare phase started). Are you also implying that I should risk death just for loot, saying that I was dumb for considering my life over riches? How can you kite the Guardian? Can you? I guess the Guardian problem would've been solved if I had rock lobsters.

- I have used the Wooden Thing in my Maxwell world. 3 times in fact, one of them because I lost a horn (history repeated itself, I guess).

- When did I say I tanked Deerclops? I just said it'd be dumb to spawn an eye If you lose one.

- "Main factor of DS is punishment for unprepared players... thats all." What about risk and reward? That's a factor. Don't Starve has also been advertised as a game that you can play in your own style. Please don't try to act as if you know the game 100% (Hell, I don't even know it 100%).

- Being busy with your inventory itself isn't what's bad. It's if you're distracted with it, which is what happened to me. You contradict yourself when saying that considering the items you bring with you is asking for pain, because that's how one gets PREPARED. Again, it's if you're distracted that hurts you.

- I wasn't implying that it's the game's fault for the lightning, I'm just saying that Don't Starve can be very unpredictable, and we can't prepare for certain things. Maybe the rain was really light in the start of the mandrake search and suddenly grew harsh as soon as you reach the mandrake.

Look, I don't wanna turn this into a fully fledged argument, so please, if you plan to reply, be more constructive with your statement (but don't sugar coat it/be sweet in a sarcastic way). The forums was made for friendly discussions. (And please, don't give me the whole "get used to how other people talk" thing. The forums isn't made for that either. I'm also not implying that everyone should talk like me, because that'd be dumb.)

[Talavaj]

I would cheat.

The game should simply not spawn items outside of the playable area.

A lazy solution to a bug, so I'd fix it.

 

Same way I'd fix accidentally eating a piece of monster meat because the game has crappy hitboxes and for some reason allows you to use items on yourself by dragging them on top of your sprite, which IMO shouldn't be the case.

[DangWoodchuck]

I would cheat.

The game should simply not spawn items outside of the playable area.

A lazy solution to a bug, so I'd fix it.

Same way I'd fix accidentally eating a piece of monster meat because the game has crappy hitboxes and for some reason allows you to use items on yourself by dragging them on top of your sprite, which IMO shouldn't be the case.

I don't mind being able to interact with the character sprite itself. When it comes to monster meat though, just makes sure that what you're interacting with via monster meat is not close to the character (I.e. go behind a pig if you wanna feed him monster meat).

[Talavaj]

I don't mind being able to interact with the character sprite itself. When it comes to monster meat though, just makes sure that what you're interacting with via monster meat is not close to the character (I.e. go behind a pig if you wanna feed him monster meat).

 

I mean things like Bird Cage specifically, since the hitboxes in the game are simply the opaque pixels of the sprites and since the bird cage is partially transparent you can keep clicking through it all the time.

 

I personally see no use in being able to click on yourself, outside of having a full inventory.

But at the same time... I think you should simply be unable to pick up anything into your "hand" when your inventory is full since even that is annoying by itself.

[DangWoodchuck]

I mean things like Bird Cage specifically, since the hitboxes in the game are simply the opaque pixels of the sprites and since the bird cage is partially transparent you can keep clicking through it all the time.

I personally see no use in being able to click on yourself, outside of having a full inventory.

But at the same time... I think you should simply be unable to pick up anything into your "hand" when your inventory is full since even that is annoying by itself.

Yeah, with the bird cage, you might have to click on the bird itself, since it's the most solid of the bird cage. It's also annoying that you might have to take your time with it. In my situations, I find keeping an item on my "hand" very handy (pun not intended), since it allows just one more item to take. One can always take the time to sort items out for space. Or you can travel light-weight. This function has saved me countless times, especially in Shipwrecked.

[DangWoodchuck]

In all honesty, I fall in the "no" category, but I'm surprised that there are more who say it's alright than those who think otherwise.

[t0panka]

In all honesty, I fall in the "no" category, but I'm surprised that there are more who say it's alright than those who think otherwise.

Yeah cheating is easy :/

[Cyde042]

In all honesty, I fall in the "no" category, but I'm surprised that there are more who say it's alright than those who think otherwise.

 

Why would you resort to other people's opinion on this case when you're the one who'll be playing in that world?

 

No ones is going to be affected by your decision except you, so ask yourself - do you feel cheated by the game? If so, just go on and spawn it in.

 

[Mobbstar]

Why would you resort to other people's opinion on this case when you're the one who'll be playing in that world?

 

No ones is going to be affected by your decision except you, so ask yourself - do you feel cheated by the game? If so, just go on and spawn it in.

 

I couldn't have said it any better. Just pretend I'd have extended this answer by some philosophical gibberish.

[DangWoodchuck]

Why would you resort to other people's opinion on this case when you're the one who'll be playing in that world?

No ones is going to be affected by your decision except you, so ask yourself - do you feel cheated by the game? If so, just go on and spawn it in.

I guess I wanted to see what other people would've done in the same situation, since I was a bit indesicive when I started the topic. I actually used to be a console command abuser, but I've long since passed that phase.

[DangWoodchuck]

I couldn't have said it any better. Just pretend I'd have extended this answer by some philosophical gibberish.

Yeah... A bit of this topic section went a little out of hand. Oh well, it could be worse.

[emerphish]

I fall into the no category. The way I play is this(in all games not just DS):

 

The game has a set of rules. It is the player's responsibility to know these rules in order to best deal with any situation. If you did not remember a "rule" (in this case abyss items falling), you should deal with it, as it was your responsibility to know. However, in regards to blowing up giants, I feel that the player should expliot any and every opportunity that is set up within the game's parameters to the fullest extent. 

 

I think this is sort of what t0panka was getting at.

 

So blow up the dragonfly, but don't spawn the horn.