My grievances with the game

[Pclav]

Hi,

I'm a real nub who bought the game about a week ago and I have around 8h /played behind my belt.

As I kept hitting walls in the game I decided to turn to wiki and read some game guides to help me progress through the game.

However there's still some things that I'd like to see changed

 

1) Time control

This game needs some kind of a newbie server option where time ticks slower. 

After you build your first Fire Pit adn Science Machine you get hit with a lot of options and you just need time to check what's what. It's hard to survive when you don't know what your next step should be, you suddenly have access to a lot of options and the clock keeps ticking mercilessly. 

 

2) No clear tooltips.

As much as this is fine with some things like the basic farm vs improved farm where you have to discover by yourself what the improvment is, it's not fine with others like the Thermal Measurer. Ok, so it measures temperature... why would I need this? Do I need it to build some other structure? 

Another thing are items. I see my sanity go down but I see no item nor structure that would help me manage that. Yes, Garland or one, now I know that, but there is nothing in game that would teach me that. It's categorized as a Dress item. First thing that comes to mind is that it's a social clothing that has nothing to do with stats. Because it lacks an informative tooltip I just didn't bother with it because I had more pressing matters at hand. 

 

3) No clear path of progression. 

Example of the Thermal Measurer from #2 applies here. No clear path of progression isn't a bad thing in itself, but combined with the fast ticking clock it's deadly and leads to many deaths for new players. There is simply not enough time to familiarize oneself with all the options and plan for the future. 

 

4) Player roles.

This is more of a mod suggestion.

I'd like to see a small window that'd say "Player X is [one of the roles]" 

By player roles I mean things like

- Scout - goes out in the world to get to know the map, find important NPCs and places

- Builder - plants trees and bushes around the base, plans out the base and uses resources brought back by the Gatherer

- Gatherer - brings back whatever Builder needs

- Farmer - brings back manure, checks and maintains traps, fertilizes farms and plants new crop

- Cook - looks for berries, shrooms, nuts and fillers, harvests crop and cooks the most efficient food

 

I had an experienced player join my server and even tho I said I'm totally new and that I need guidelines, that player was reluctant to give me jobs even when I asked for them. I understand that they might not wanted me to cook food or go and kill stuff but simple tasks like bringing rocks, bushes or wood to the base anyone can handle. 

With a mod like that it might be easier to assign roles and experienced players wouldn't have that feel of bossing around new ones.[at least not directly ] New players would have a job and would feel that they're contributing in a meaningful role. 

If it had some checkboxes or a small note space so you can add stuff like "Gatherer - Mining" or "Cook - needs a birchnut and 3 berries x4: would be great. 

[DarkXero]

The thermal measurer can tell you when the next season will start, since temperatures will go from one point of the thermometer to another. Middle for autumn, lower middle for spring, bottom for winter, top for summer.

 

Everybody just uses the Always on Status mod, or calculates how much remains.

Autumn and spring last 20 days, winter and summer 15.

 

3) No clear path of progression. Example of the Thermal Measurer from #2 applies here. No clear path of progression isn't a bad thing in itself, but combined with the fast ticking clock it's deadly and leads to many deaths for new players. There is simply not enough time to familiarize oneself with all the options and plan for the future.

 

This is intentional.

For early Don't Starve, Klei decided to put objectives, and for them, it removed the uncompromising aspect of the game.

 

Personally, my progression path is unlocking recipes.

First, all science machine recipes.

Second, all alchemy engine recipes.

Third, all prestihatitator recipes.

Finally, all shadow manipulator recipes.

 

Out of that normal progression, I give higher priority to stuff that I need at the time.

Like a crock pot, a lightning rod, a flingomatic, a bird cage, an ice box, some spider nests, an endothermic fire pit.

These are the basics that can carry you through all four seasons.

 

I had an experienced player join my server and even tho I said I'm totally new and that I need guidelines, that player was reluctant to give me jobs even when I asked for them. I understand that they might not wanted me to cook food or go and kill stuff but simple tasks like bringing rocks, bushes or wood to the base anyone can handle. With a mod like that it might be easier to assign roles and experienced players wouldn't have that feel of bossing around new ones.

 

Well, you have experienced players that give tips, experienced players that don't, new players that will follow instructions, new players that will just hug the campfire.

 

Since it's your server, you can personally try to enforce rules, assign roles to other new players.

 

I think you are in a good path, how long you survived?

[Pclav]

The thermal measurer can tell you when the next season will start, since temperatures will go from one point of the thermometer to another. Middle for autumn, lower middle for spring, bottom for winter, top for summer.

 

Everybody just uses the Always on Status mod, or calculates how much remains.

Autumn and spring last 20 days, winter and summer 15.

 

I think you are in a good path, how long you survived?

 

My point was more about the fact that nothing in game teaches me what the structure actually does and if/when I need it right now. The tooltips for most things are moot at best. 

 

I get it it's a steep learning curve, but that's different then having to die over and over again to learn one small thing. 

 

My first 10 or so tries ended up in death anytime between 4th and 6th day due to bad planning, pure stupidity or not paying attention.

Bad planning was when I was fumbling around trying to make stuff that's I had no idea about and I had no idea if it's worth making it but it sounded good.

Pure stupidity were instances when I though i'll be able to put a campfire up "blindly" when the night comes. It happens to be that I can't. Or when I was attacking something that's too big for me and my gear.

Not paying attention was when I let the night fall on me while focusing on reading tooltips or alt+tab'ing to wiki for a sec to check something out.

 

After I've read some wiki about farming, sanity control and some decent crockpot receipes and memorized what I felt was the bare minimum I made it to day 18 before dying to a pack of spiders *cough*

At the moment I'm at day 28 and holding up. That's a big friggin jump from day 6 if you ask me. And it kinda annoys me that I got there just because I had to search for so much help on wiki. I don't know who made that Crockpot guide, but they did a great job on it.

[Mysanthil]

My point was more about the fact that nothing in game teaches me what the structure actually does and if/when I need it right now. The tooltips for most things are moot at best. 

 

I get it it's a steep learning curve, but that's different then having to die over and over again to learn one small thing. 

 

If you are the type of person who needs to know how things work, you'll need to wiki it for this game. The lack of information in-game is on purpose, designed for people who like to figure things out through trial and error. I died the first day of this game before it even got to night. Then I died at night. Etc. 

 

Lack of tooltips is by design.

[ImDaMisterL]

My point was more about the fact that nothing in game teaches me what the structure actually does and if/when I need it right now.

 

Some descriptions are pretty objective, though...

[Doctor Donna]

in my opinion is part of the fun to learn the hidden parts of the game (wiki). it keeps the experience fresh and even after 500 hours you learn new stuff.

like dark souls ^^ <3

in the past we read the manual to know how to play.

today we read wiki.

[SailBlade]

I like the lack of information besides one thing: the crock pot. food recipies should also have a tab. I remember this was asked in the beginning but users early ceated a "database".

 

Without console (or code knowledge) it would at least take you hundreds of hours to figure out how everything works and this would be boring as hell. (You'd need to gather the mats, too!)

 

I would have preferred a recipe-tab that carries over between games - that way you could decide whether to look everything up or find out yourself - but with a touch of progression that could be motivating)

[Derpime]

My mind just exploded after reading this one.REALLY,you have no idea what it will give you?

Ok,here.Why you wear clothes?To keep yourself warm and not naked.BOOM.Done,after that,you can try out different clothes to test how each others work.Plus,some items already have their description that already told you what it does.

And about the crock pot recipes.Yeahh,they need to rethink that

And roles,really,ROLES.This is not MMORPG.You just go and play,the code is really easy,just look it up.In the wiki they show you how to use console.Just create a world.Turn on godmode and mess around with it.

Havw fun

[Quyzbuk]

If you are the type of person who needs to know how things work, you'll need to wiki it for this game. The lack of information in-game is on purpose, designed for people who like to figure things out through trial and error. I died the first day of this game before it even got to night. Then I died at night. Etc. 

 

Lack of tooltips is by design.

 

^ This

 

The game is not meant to be easy for newer players, especially not the DST version, since it is rebalanced for more people. It's good that you are reading and (hopefully) learning from the wiki and other guides, but if you're looking for the hands-on stuff, you should try creating your own world and tinkering with the settings and/or looking into the mods to help you ease in better. Make the days last longer, shorten the seasons you are having problems with, boost the amount of resources that are put in the world, etc etc.

[Pclav]

My mind just exploded after reading this one.REALLY,you have no idea what it will give you?

Ok,here.Why you wear clothes?To keep yourself warm and not naked.BOOM.Done,after that,you can try out different clothes to test how each others work.Plus,some items already have their description that already told you what it does.

And about the crock pot recipes.Yeahh,they need to rethink that

And roles,really,ROLES.This is not MMORPG.You just go and play,the code is really easy,just look it up.In the wiki they show you how to use console.Just create a world.Turn on godmode and mess around with it.

Havw fun

 

You missed my point.

Some items aren't intuitive. Winter Hat - keep you warm <- intuitive. Garland - helps with sanity levels <- how the hell am I supposed to know that? There is nothing in the tooltip. There is nothing in game that teaches me that and using up resources to test everything takes a lot of time and makes progressing through the game really slow.

 

If you don't like the word roles then call it division of labor. That's the concept I had in mind, not a MMO style roles/classes. I mentioned that as a mod, so an optional thing for QoL purposes. You can be far more effective if people know what the rest is doing and working on at the moment or what they want to or like to focus on.

 

I don't want to mess with godmode. Using wiki is research, using godmode is cheating in my eyes.

 

Someone mentioned making the days longer. THat's a very nice suggestion - thank you. I wasn't messing around with the settings, but that does sound like an option of a "slow speed mode" that'd be a great help.

[DirtyLegThompson]

It's an arcade style of game. When you played pac-man as a kid, how did you learn that the ghosts like to eat you? When you played super mario, what told you that jumping on enemies heads was the main source of your damage output? Did you complain then as well? Learn the game the way it was meant to be learned. You're jumping into a game that's almost 4 years old my friend. you're behind. the only reason any of us are any good at this game is because we refused to give up just because we made a mistake that costed us our lives, or wasted resources placing an endo fire or flingo in the wrong spot.

[BlazeNightash]

You could try playing single player mode.. where you can customize how time flows, length of seasons, how much of a resource spawns or what doesn't spawn like ex. remove hounds.. Single player is meant to actually help you learn and survive as you can adjust how a world spawn. If you just jump right into don't starve together you're gonna have a much much harder time due to the fact that you're competeing for resources and you can't make the world easier/harder when first starting unless you own the server. The game actually isn't that difficult if you just get a nice 50 hours on the single player verison. From what i see people claiming this game is hard is just being lazy and not wanting to think or probably even move their mouse over an icon to see what it saids

[Xavven]

Hm, well I'm going to go against the grain here and agree with the OP.

 

The trend in good video game design these days is to teach the player game mechanics by introducing them in carefully metered ways to the player. Extra Credits has a great episode on the subject of tutorials here:

and this is something DST is lacking. I'm not saying new players should be completely coddled as this would spoil the unforgiving and harsh feel of the game, but there's a balance that Don't Starve hasn't quite struck yet IMHO.

 

For example, the crock pot requires a lot of trial and error to figure out. After making monster lasagna (and eating it, not knowing any better) and wet goop, and receiving no clues as to why, or even what I should be putting in the crock pot to make good recipes, I admit to giving up very quickly and hitting the wiki. I never once thought that sticks could be added to the crock pot, nor would I have thought that some recipes would give me less hunger points than the sum of their individual components. New players are put at too large a disadvantage by not reading the wiki and that's not necessarily a good thing.

 

Better item descriptions would be very helpful to new players, whether just text like "this thermal stone can store heat from a campfire and keep me warm longer" or even revealing stats, like how much insulation a winter hat provides, and how much a beefalo hat provides so I can compare them. A description like "the classiest hat of all" for the top hat doesn't exactly scream "craft this to counter sanity loss" to a new player who doesn't even understand the sanity mechanic to begin with, again, because the game doesn't explain its significance.

 

 

[werlpolf]

and this is something DST is lacking

Thats why I am thinking, playing DST is for the coders and modders entertainment only. Its really great, that you can look up EVERYTHING in the source code.

 

I never once thought that sticks could be added to the crock pot

This exactly gives me the motivation to look up in the code (or wiki). If things are get teached in some way, these things would be simplified for sure. Finally, the 'audience' isn't much clever to use or know everything. It is also not easy to identify the balance between too much and too less information for the audience.

 

nor would I have thought that some recipes would give me less hunger points than the sum of their individual components

The crockpot-food give instead more sanity for example or health - I understand that as my part in the game to take care of these things. Of course it needs time, but I don't want to study DST through tutorials as well as you don't want for sure to read the whole DST code. Actually you don't need a tutorial to survive the game. You need a tutorial to become better

 

Better item descriptions would be very helpful to new players,

Exactly this don't want Klei, else the game will become even more easier! If I understand it right, Klei is doing this consciously, because the player should get their own aha!-effect, which makes many people also alot of fun - not just to build a super mega base city in 30 DST-days. There are also playing little kids