Could help me pick a character?

[loled]

Hello

 

I would like some advice, in character selections. I bought DST a month ago, and i did some good research (70+ h) in gameplay and read tons of wiki to gather knowledge and now i am ready to settle down to "one and good" server to go.

The characters are attract me are 3

 

wickerbottom

 

wilson

 

wolfgang

 

I know everybody has his own preferences but i ask some third view insight.

 

Wickerbottom, was the second character, i loved her, somehow i mess up when fighting (i like to be risky sometimes). Books are totally abusable and i liked her very much.

Sanity may be a problem in first 10 days or so. After that i am pretty much all set. (i can get all the sanity and food i want ) 

 

 

Wilson is the first character i played and pretty much classic, i liked him like we all do.

Beard is nice, he can fight as all others can and he adapts any scenario.

 

Wolfgang, mixed feelings, i never lived long with him, pretty much his whinning isnt really motivating.

 

 

Now straight to the point

 

wolfgang cries all the time but in fights is faster and with double damage, does that matter in the end game? With wilson and wicker darksword/spear and some logsuits with helmets would pretty much do the thing, doesnt it worth to get all the crying for food and fear for some double damage in end game?

 

And the main question (since i am more inclined towards those 2)

Is sleep a deal breaker? I can manage wickerbottom sanity just fine but tent seems to heal too (and very effeciently, then again there is honey food.

 

What do you say?

[RalphKastro]

read tons of wiki

why do you hate yourself?

Is sleep a deal breaker?

in DS, yes. In DST, not so much. In my experience, I have not felt any need to sleep, as it's both time that could be used to work, and gives very slow benefits.

it all depends what you like the most.

[Pyromailmann]

Depends on who you want.

You want to play as Wilson? Choose him.

You want to play as Wickerbottom? Choose her.

[ryouryou]

Sleep has never been an absolute necessity, it just means that you need to pay more active attention to your sanity than other characters since you don't have that "oh ****" button to push. Some homeless bees can easily get you an endless flower field to exploit. Setting up your own hives gets you Taffy. Jerky is a great sanity source if you have enough food to spare some meats for it that don't need to be crock pot cooked.

Wickerbottom has huge starting sanity of 250. This is both great and challenging. The perk is that it takes a lot longer for negative sanity auras to add up to enough (%-wise) to affect her, however, on the flip side, if you've let her sanity decay, it will take more to repair it. Sources of sanity are flat-rate (i.e. not %-based), so it will take more total mushrooms, flowers, or time wearing a top hat to fix you if you've really let it go for a while.

Wickerbottom gets a bunch of science recipes for free. This is also challenging on sanity. You are missing out on a ton of potential one-time sanity restores from prototyping. However, you can also start with a backpack and a shovel and other such things and get everything going faster. 



However, her books are amazing, she gets started really fast, she's a great base-dwelling/farmer character if you like that playstyle, and if you eschew early books, she has the papyrus to make a bird cage without ever finding a swamp in her starting inventory.


Most characters have some aspect of management vs reward. Wilson is the only one that really doesn't. Aside from the beard, there is nothing to manage, and the beard is more of a flat bonus, requiring only a one-time investment into making a razor to reap the benefits.


I would say more about Wolfgang, but I honestly don't really play him. I don't find it that fun to be incentivized to stay wimpy most of the time, that's all. I have seen good players with Wolfgang, but that's not saying much. A good player can be the best person on your team regardless of character choice. I find he is mostly a liability in terms of food, and that combat in this game relies more on avoiding damage than just tanking it by being huge. However, being tough is good lag insurance, I suppose. If you are not hosting, being able to survive hits becomes more important.


*None of this was written with PvP in mind - I do not play PvP*

[Flare2V]

I find he is mostly a liability in terms of food

He doesn't have an increased hunger rate unless you're near or in your mightiest form, why does this make him a liability?

[ryouryou]

He doesn't have an increased hunger rate unless you're near or in your mightiest form, why does this make him a liability?

"near your mightiest form" in this case means anything but wimpy. Unless the wiki is made of LIES, regular Wolfgang has a 1.5x hunger consumption rate.

It simply isn't that fun to have to remain wimpy. You picked a strongman character in order to be, you know, STRONG, and you're stuck hitting like a wet noodle (or a dry Wendy) for most of the game. As soon as you are not wimpy, you are a liability on hunger. You can never even eat a single Meaty Stew without becoming a liability on hunger because it will automatically push you out of wimpy form with just its hunger gain alone.

Being unable to eat Meaty Stew without wasting some of it on increased consumption means that I have to utilize less efficient recipes to feed him, or simply just waste some of it doing nothing.

A really skilled player will stay in wimpy almost all the time unless fighting, but if you're staying in wimpy most of the time, you are not utilizing your character's perk. To be the best team player, you should be doing most of the fighting. However, if you do use your character's perk, you waste food. It might be an over-simplified statement to say he is always a liability, but yes, Wolfgang is one of these things at all times:

1. Wimpy form, not using character perks to contribute to the team, basically a crappy Wendy with no Abigail who is afraid of the dark, terribly unfun for the player.

2. Anything besides wimpy, consuming significantly more food. 

His mighty form is kind of awesome. 300 HP, 2x damage, that's great. However, he consumes 3x as much food in that form, so it might be more efficient to simply.. have two other players that aren't Wolfgang. They will consume 2x the food and do 2x damage, and can also split up to multitask. Obviously this is a gross oversimplification of how resource consumption with multiple players works, but the point is still in there.. somewhere.

The value of having 300HP is huge in PvP, not going to deny that. I do not play it but I can see for sure how it would be a big deal especially when dealing with ranged weapons where the damage is much harder to avoid. The value of having 300HP in PvE against non-ranged enemies is dubious, as you can basically play the game without tanking hits for the most part. It saves time, but so would simply having more players. In a one-player setting where "get more people" isn't an option, it has clear value. 

I am not going to like, kick you out of my server for picking Wolfgang, these are just reasons I don't find him to be a fun character. When I say he is a liability for food I mostly mean when not played to 100% perfect efficiency, but even then he is questionable. Any character can be a net gain of resources for the team if the player is competent. 

He's not Wes.

[RalphKastro]

just play Wendy and never worry about lag in combat.

[Flare2V]

just play Wendy and never worry about lag in combat.

Abigail Can't kill very much, disabling movement prediction is a much better option.

 

A whole buncha stuff, look up if you want to see what this guy said.

I wasn't aware of the increased hunger drain, my bad. My main source of food (up until I have beeboxes set up) is always various animals/monsters such as beefalo, spiders, koalefants and hounds. Wolfgang allows me to deal with these creatures safely and efficiently. I like that. If you have problems finding food in the first place, I can understand why Wolfgang would be unappealing, but if it's efficiency you're worried about always consider time a factor.

As for using two players to handle a threat instead of one, don't forget that you would need a second set of equipment for the other player, and having to rely on someone else in combat isn't always the smartest move. You also need to remember that Wolfgang can apply double damage to one target precisely, whereas this can be difficult with a team mate. This increased damage reduces the number of hits an enemy can get out before falling which reduces the number of dodges you need to make or eliminates the need to dodge at all. Consider this point under-simplified.

As for being afraid of the dark, the additional 10% sanity loss is negligible considering how easy it is to gain sanity when you're geared, and how unimportant sanity is when you tear apart crawling horrors in three swings of a hambat and terrorbeaks in four.

Edit: Makin' this post a little bit smaller.

[RalphKastro]

Abigail Can't kill very much, disabling movement prediction is a much better option.

I don't like messing with the console and code and such. Makes me feel cheaty(and stupid, for having no idea about what I'm doing... also lazy for not having gotten into programming already). 

[Bunni]

Tried to make this look as simple as possible i can go into more detail about each character but that would be a lot to read. Each one also depends on who you are planning to play with as well. 

 

Wilson

• is useful for a longer game
• all rounded character
• beard is helpful for winter
• beard is helpful for making meat effigys (they are like life giving amulets, anyone can use so recomend to make if playing with friends)

Wendy

• useful for a longer game
• best for newer player if you know how to use her
• best in survival and endless
• not as good for fighting in pvp
• has Abigail which is useful for mobs like spiders
• not as much sanity drain
• (-) weaker 
• (-) when Abigail spawn it drains some sanity summoning her 

Willow

• best for pvp early on in game
• all rounded
• semi-immune to fire damage
• gain sanity when standing near fire
• has a lighter than is more durable than a torch
• lighter should last about 4 or 5 nights

Wolfgang

• best in pvp servers or if you like fighting
• with full hunger he has more strength
• (-) needs more food than most characters
• (-) afraid of the dark

WX-78

• all rounded
• can be great for pvp if you find enough gears
• good for a long game if you can find gears
• can eat spoiling food
• you can upgrade with gears (although this might upset other players)
• charged by lighting
• (-) rain will hurt you

wickerbottom

• good for an early game
• easier to get started with
• best in wilderness, or with friends
• pvp is easier for her early on
• has books that can be useful
• useful for teaming with friends because of her farm book
• (-)harder time in survival since she can't sleep
• (-)tougher time gaining sanity unless (you craft more items, but you will run out eventually) 

I would say depending on the three you want to pick from wicker bottom would be best as long as you are planing on playing on servers with less ghosts but just in case you should get a tam early on in the winter for high chances of survival. i don't like wolfgang as much but i also am not a big pvp player. Wilson is all rounded and if you want to play with friends meat effigys are always nice to make. Sleep is a big deal for wicker if you play in survival and there are a ton of ghosts if you aren't good with dealing at sanity drain it might be what kills you. Also tents are great for healing but they take up food so it just depends on what you want to deal with.

[Zinglon]

Hello

 

I would like some advice, in character selections. I bought DST a month ago, and i did some good research (70+ h) in gameplay and read tons of wiki to gather knowledge and now i am ready to settle down to "one and good" server to go.

The characters are attract me are 3

 

wickerbottom

 

wilson

 

wolfgang

 

I know everybody has his own preferences but i ask some third view insight.

 

Wickerbottom, was the second character, i loved her, somehow i mess up when fighting (i like to be risky sometimes). Books are totally abusable and i liked her very much.

Sanity may be a problem in first 10 days or so. After that i am pretty much all set. (i can get all the sanity and food i want ) 

 

 

Wilson is the first character i played and pretty much classic, i liked him like we all do.

Beard is nice, he can fight as all others can and he adapts any scenario.

 

Wolfgang, mixed feelings, i never lived long with him, pretty much his whinning isnt really motivating.

 

 

Now straight to the point

 

wolfgang cries all the time but in fights is faster and with double damage, does that matter in the end game? With wilson and wicker darksword/spear and some logsuits with helmets would pretty much do the thing, doesnt it worth to get all the crying for food and fear for some double damage in end game?

 

And the main question (since i am more inclined towards those 2)

Is sleep a deal breaker? I can manage wickerbottom sanity just fine but tent seems to heal too (and very effeciently, then again there is honey food.

 

What do you say?

 

1. Wolfgang's damage modifier is x2(in melee and ranged) with his fully saturated form. It tells all. You could kill all the Giants at ease(one hit with fresh ham bat removes ~2.5% health of deerclops in DST, and 5% of health with blowgun), when you could easily get your own food supplies and some jerkies.

If you're expertised in this game you always have at least ~10 bacons and eggs in your inventory at day 20 without griefed by others, so hunger is actually not even a mere obstacle for his peerless might.

 

2. Sleep is not a deal breaker in general, but, if you play on survival mode, it will be a deal breaker if there's some newbies that couldn't help themselves surviving even in autumn, or with backstabbing pk in pvp on server. You can regen your sanity and health with various assets.

If you play Wickybottom, it would be a extravaganza if you could find a fairy ring of green mushrooms in early game, but it's gonna be obsoleted after you could get Tam'o Shanter and other sanity-regen clothing. Healing? Rely on tons of spider glands you get from spider farming or bacon and eggs are enough I guess, even without making salves.

Ah, I forgot to mention the Jerky Almighty. It restores 3 stats at once, so make plenty of hanging racks for them. I personally don't like honey techtree for healing and sanity regen since it costs a bit of silks and labours to get butterflies and bees, and consume 2 inventory slots(honey ham/nugget/poultice and taffies). But if you have a good partner for honey techtree, it would be more efficient since no beekeeper hat is required.

 

[ryouryou]

Abigail Can't kill very much, disabling movement prediction is a much better option.

 

I wasn't aware of the increased hunger drain, my bad. My main source of food (up until I have beeboxes set up) is always various animals/monsters such as beefalo, spiders, koalefants and hounds. Wolfgang allows me to deal with these creatures safely and efficiently. I like that. If you have problems finding food in the first place, I can understand why Wolfgang would be unappealing, but if it's efficiency you're worried about always consider time a factor.

As for using two players to handle a threat instead of one, don't forget that you would need a second set of equipment for the other player, and having to rely on someone else in combat isn't always the smartest move. You also need to remember that Wolfgang can apply double damage to one target precisely, whereas this can be difficult with a team mate. This increased damage reduces the number of hits an enemy can get out before falling which reduces the number of dodges you need to make or eliminates the need to dodge at all. Consider this point under-simplified.

As for being afraid of the dark, the additional 10% sanity loss is negligible considering how easy it is to gain sanity when you're geared, and how unimportant sanity is when you tear apart crawling horrors in three swings of a hambat and terrorbeaks in four.

Edit: Makin' this post a little bit smaller.

I agree Wolfgang isn't awful overall, I mean, he's pretty strong when played to his strengths, and if you're the lone wolf type, he can solo things more easily than you would normally be able to. I wouldn't dissuade someone from picking him if they really enjoy playing him, just, at the same time I wouldn't go out of my way to recommend him to someone who is on the fence. I guess it's kind of the difference between a solo class and a more specialized class on an MMO. Wolfgang is good at taking care of Wolfgang. As a team player he's less needed, but not useless.

And yeah, one dude that's twice is good is going to be better than two people if the two people aren't well-coordinated, so if you're not usually playing with close friends or voice chat, a single Wolfgang (that you can control) can be more useful than a partner (that you can't control and who may or may not do what you want). I am typically playing with at least one close friend on skype so take into account that my experiences usually reflect that.

His sanity loss from monsters/darkness is overall somewhat undercut when you take into account the fact that he is going to kill them much faster (if you're soloing) than you would if you were another character. If you can get something down fast enough, you will take even less sanity than another character despite his increased modifier.

An upgraded WX and Wigfrid both give him stiff competition as a combat/tank character as well. When it comes to time savings, I would often rather have Wigfrid's healing so I can quickly move on to another target vs Wolfgang's strength.

CIVIL DISCUSSION ON THE FORUMS. >=D

[Zinglon]

I agree Wolfgang isn't awful overall, I mean, he's pretty strong when played to his strengths, and if you're the lone wolf type, he can solo things more easily than you would normally be able to. I wouldn't dissuade someone from picking him if they really enjoy playing him, just, at the same time I wouldn't go out of my way to recommend him to someone who is on the fence. I guess it's kind of the difference between a solo class and a more specialized class on an MMO. Wolfgang is good at taking care of Wolfgang. As a team player he's less needed, but not useless.

And yeah, one dude that's twice is good is going to be better than two people if the two people aren't well-coordinated, so if you're not usually playing with close friends or voice chat, a single Wolfgang (that you can control) can be more useful than a partner (that you can't control and who may or may not do what you want). I am typically playing with at least one close friend on skype so take into account that my experiences usually reflect that.

His sanity loss from monsters/darkness is overall somewhat undercut when you take into account the fact that he is going to kill them much faster (if you're soloing) than you would if you were another character. If you can get something down fast enough, you will take even less sanity than another character despite his increased modifier.

An upgraded WX and Wigfrid both give him stiff competition as a combat/tank character as well. When it comes to time savings, I would often rather have Wigfrid's healing so I can quickly move on to another target vs Wolfgang's strength.

CIVIL DISCUSSION ON THE FORUMS. >=D

 

I agree that Wolfgang is a little bit inferior to compare with full-up WX-78(400 health. lol) and Wigfrid(1.25x dam mod and .75x inc dam mod, +vampirism) in both combat/tanking ability. Still Wolfgang could do both(~2x dam mod, 300 health) with hunger saturation though.

 

Kind of allegories I think are like these : Wigfrid is electric-hybrid modern sedan(Hxxdx I guess? lol), while full-up WX-78 is strong, durable truck with good gas mileage(like Brand of Vxxvx), and Wolfgang is a fuel-consuming manual-geared SUV(don't have any kind of prejudice in this type of vehicle Brand).

[Larochette]

I know there is a competition side in DST, but if you play a character for the strength of its perks and not for his "wonderful style, he is the best, i love him with no reason, and your arguments are invalid", you may miss something.

I you want my personal opinion, the best character is Wickerbottom: fast and efficient start, awesome books and she can easily solve her sanity problem with greencaps. Sleeping is for the weak. Waste of time. Precious time...

And for fighting, I'd say Wigfrid. You know, that's the moment without arguments.

 

[Flare2V]

if you play a character for the strength of its perks and not for his "wonderful style, he is the best, i love him with no reason, and your arguments are invalid"

 

Sleeping is for the weak. Waste of time. Precious time...

 

for fighting, I'd say Wigfrid. You know, that's the moment without arguments.

You're implying a given character has a set out playstyle, and not just a handful of buffs and debuffs to do with as you please. This is very wrong, it's up to the player to decide. When I use Wolfgang, I don't tank. I understand that wigfrid can tank for prolonged periods of time, but there's more to combat than taking hits as you dish them out.

As for the sleep is for the weak line, you're contradicting yourself bud.

 

As a team player he's less needed, but not useless.

And yeah, one dude that's twice is good is going to be better than two people if the two people aren't well-coordinated,

An upgraded WX and Wigfrid both give him stiff competition as a combat/tank character as well.

CIVIL DISCUSSION ON THE FORUMS. >=D

If the person playing wolfgang doesn't make perfect use of his abilities then without saying that person is a liability, wolfgang or not. They're just a little extra useless now.

The problem with coordinating attacks is communicating as well as a single person can communicate with themself (ie, thinking) is straight up impossible with current technology. I won't deny, there are times where coordination can be better than his 2x damage multiplier (ice staff stun-locking bosses, for example) but good luck finding a team that can always coordinate better than a single, good Wolfgang player.

As for prolonged tanking, I agree, Wigfrid does it better, but Wolfgang is better utilized when you use the 2x damage multiplier while skirmishing. If you're very good at avoiding the enemy's attacks while landing your own, the health bonuses and damage reduction(s) from Wigfrid and WX-78 are once again, negligible.

It takes a good player to make Wolfgang viable, but a great player makes him invaluable.

[loled]

is there any sustainable way for wolfgang to be  semi-mighty or mighty in early game?

 

I mean like koalefants or something? I mean i know i will have food income by end game but i hope i dont die of boredom first (its a lot easier with wilson)

[ryouryou]

Immediately make a crock pot and start hunting Koelephants, you might be able to do it.

Don't let other people hole up in your base and eat your food, either, unless you know it's sustainable. If you find a pig village, turn the pigs into Werepigs and then kill them, Werepigs always drop 2 meat. Werepigs, importantly, unlike many other sources of meat, do not count as innocent and thus do not increment Naughtiness if you have such concerns. Get good at whacking butterflies when you walk by and they are basically free, too. You can use Ctrl to force the attack so you don't use any durability of anything. 

Make Meaty Stew. It is very efficient.

Meat + Monster Meat + Morsel x2 is the most "efficient" recipe, but there are variations based on what you have with you such as:

Monster Meat + Meat + Meat + Berries/shrooms/etc

Meat + Monster Meat + Frog Legs x2

I've never tried for this but I would be interested to see if how you do. I would stay "normal" but carry food to push you to mighty when you find the target of your hunt.

[SmellyBacon]

I know ROG isn't out yet, but it should be coming relatively soon since they released open beta. If you want to be able to survive for a long time I suggest the easiest character (almost) in the game right now: Webber. 

 

Infinite food, silk and glands makes him the easiest character in the game. It's impossible to starve as him, he might not excel at combat but I usually get spiders to do all the work anyways. Sanity isn't a problem either since you can make Tophat at day 2-3. Oh, and did I forget he also grows a beard?

 

His only con is not beeing able to have pig farms in singleplayer, but in multiplayer you can just get another player to build and harvest it for you! 

 

A few tips if you never played Webber before,

 

-Spider Wars

When you have a nest or more (you spawn in with one and you can craft them) wait untill night and feed one of the spiders taming 3 if they're in range. Then, attack another spider, but don't finish the animation, doing so will make it so your tamed spiders go hostile on the spider you targetted but it won't go hostile on you. While the spiders are juking it out, some more spiders will join the fight. The new spiders, for whatever reason, will attack both of the sides and then end up attacking themselves. Quite complicated to explain how it works, but in one night you can clear the whole nest(s) and get a heckton of ressources. Since none of the spiders will go hostile on you, I suggest staying in the middle of the fight and holding spacebar, so you will pick up any monster meat that drops without having a spider eat it.

 

-Tier 3's

Get rid of them, don't tell yourself "Ill do it tommorow" No, get rid of them. The last thing you want is for a queen to appear, unless you want a mask for your friends. When she spawns she takes the egg with her and plants it somewhere random, could even be in the middle of your base. Also the spiders she spawns will be hostile towards your friends. Destroy the tier 3 nest with the spider war tactic (except this time target the nest instead of the spider) it will drop a tier 1 nest which you can replant in the same location.

 

-Friendz

Make your spider farm relatively far from your camp so your friends don't have to deal with your other friends.

 

-Burd

When you have 4-5 nests set up you can feed you and your friends eternally, for your friends, feed cooked monster meat to a bird and it will drop an egg. Webber can eat monster meat without getting any penalty. This food source lasts all year long.

 

-Beard

Grow it before winter, it gives you insulation like Wilson's beard, a bit less thought.

 

There are probably more tips I could list but this thread is starting to get long, hope I helped.

 

The Webber life:

 

 

 

[Zinglon]

is there any sustainable way for wolfgang to be  semi-mighty or mighty in early game?

 

I mean like koalefants or something? I mean i know i will have food income by end game but i hope i dont die of boredom first (its a lot easier with wilson)

 

1. Harvest every single mushrooms and carrot, berries you encounter.

 

2. Harvest plenty of monster meats from spider dens in forest or swamp.

 

3. Make crock pots at least day 3 with science machine. Eat some carrots when starving before you make it.

 

4. Make tons of meatballs and enjoy the feast.

 

This techtree is just focused on what you want, not regarding its efficiency on mid and late game.

 

Koalafant hunting is time consuming work(you'd better gathering up materials at that time) and you could lost the trail especially in forest biome, so I don't recommend. (Were)Piggy or beef hunting are easier way to get meats I guess.

 

I regard wimpy form in early game as just a cheap tax for mid and late game. If you're good in game mechanics, you could build a nice camp within day 10< and being able to sustain food supplies.

[RalphKastro]

I just love how this thread began from such a small question but has turned into a big discussion about strategies and playstyles of each character. It's impressive how much you can know about a single character just by playing it a lot(and reading the wiki, but I refuse to confirm it's existence).

[ryouryou]

I just love how this thread began from such a small question but has turned into a big discussion about strategies and playstyles of each character. It's impressive how much you can know about a single character just by playing it a lot(and reading the wiki, but I refuse to confirm it's existence).

 

It's just that the game has a lot in it, so the seemingly simply character perks and weaknesses end up actually being very complex because of their interactions with all of these other elements. :3

I am personally too addicted to Wendy to pick anyone else hardly right now. 

[RalphKastro]

I am personally too addicted to Wendy to pick anyone else hardly right now.

me too, although I've been playing as Wilson recently for gameplay testing purposes. It's really surprising how my playstyle, which usually is golden and flawless just falls apart when I don't have abigail and sanity safety, but grow a beard. 

[Zinglon]

me too, although I've been playing as Wilson recently for gameplay testing purposes. It's really surprising how my playstyle, which usually is golden and flawless just falls apart when I don't have abigail and sanity safety, but grow a beard. 

 

Right. That's why I don't play Wickerbottom at all after mentally assaulted by a lot of ghosts in dedicated servers lol. Also optimal strategies for her is mainly focused on farming by exploiting exclusive spells which I really don't like(I like hunter-killer playstyle, not farmer). And because of similar reasons I never played with Wendy, Willow.

[Coski]

Simply , random.

 

It depends on your needs 

[loled]

So guys, maybe i should reform my question in 1 part.

If i remember well, wolfgang in mighty form gets x2 damage, x3 hunger +0,25 speed + 150 life

 

I believe life becomes unimportant, when you have mid game armors, log suit and football helmet, pretty much give you 96% reduction.

You can have some healing food with you, and i doubt you will lose the basic 150 life in first life. (It meants you took 3750 damage or something and you didnt dodge any of it)

 

So it all comes down to more speed and double damage, vs beard

Do you feel in your personal preferences that it worths having wimpy and grumpy wolfgang all game, for having some easier fights? Or you found wilson with hambat or darksword is pretty much 1 min fight more or something?