Wait...wait...you call *that* PvP?!

[Delannion]

TL;DR comes first - PvP Server means PVP!!!!!!  Left-Click on another character should = Attack.  Anything else is ridiculous kid gloves that discourage PvP. It's silly.

 

That said, the story is funny, you should read it.

 

_____________________________________________________________________

 

The Story:

 

 

So I figured when I logged into a pvp server that I'd be able to like, attack other players. You know like, totally like, click on them and attack them, just like any other hostile creature. 

 

NOPE.  

 

I had to call "time-outsies" with the guy I wanted to kill and be all like, "Yo dude, I like, totally want to backstab you but, uh...how do I do that?"

 

Thankfully he also had no idea how to attack another player, and we had to beg in global chat, plus some experimentation, to actually figure it out.  

 

This probably sounds totally absurd to you sick mofos out there who have been intentionally murdering Chester since the day you started playing, but honestly after like 300 hours of this game I've only ever needed left-click and "f" to attack.   

 

Ok, that's a lie, I've only ever needed left-click, but I've started using the "f" key because the lag in DST is pretty bad. 

 

Seriously though. If I log into a pvp server, I'm not there to make friends.  I'm there to kill them.  Probably not to take their stuff, because they're noob scrubs and probably haven't built enough to make it worthwhile. But kill them yes.  Don't make that a chore.

 

All joking aside, I can't juke and dodge as effectively if I'm busy staring at the keyboard because attacking another player involves a complicated multi-click I've never needed for anything else in the history of the game.

 

 

 

[rezecib]

@Delannion, Ctrl+click is too hard? Edit: Re-reading this, I realized it might sound like I'm making fun of you, but my intent was to genuinely ask the question.

 

But I think the real problem is that there are really at least three things wanted for PvP/coop, rather than just the two presented:

1) Full PvP, where it's each player against everyone else. In this scenario, it makes sense to have other players considered hostile by default (e.g. click / F attacks them without ctrl).

2) Optional PvP, where you can cooperate, but you have the option to attack each other. There's actually probably more variations within this that could be separated out-- one would be what current PvP is like, and another would require two-way intention to fight in order for PvP to be possible (like Terraria's PvP system).

3) Full coop. Don't really need to explain this.

 

Edit: Haha, sorry Mysanthil. I say post anyway, your posts are great

[Mysanthil]

It's not that hard... re-bind it if it is. PvP is not the devs' main focus right now, I think. Lots of imbalances. I vaguely remember one of them mentioning at PAX that it's temporary and/or so people don't accidentally attack each other during testing. So any combat is quite on purpose and not just a miss-click. Otherwise agreed with Rez.

 

If I wait 1min to post, Rez will post before I do. This is like, 5 times now. :\

[Auth]

Probably not to take their stuff, because they're noob scrubs and probably haven't built enough to make it worthwhile.

 

r00d

[Patio]

I never enjoyed the PvP.

[Ridley]

I don't know about you guys, but I had to look up how to force attack things, something I never knew I could until someone else told a story about it. I just recently found out I can hold F to auto fight things. This stuff is not common sense, it makes sense, but it is no WASD.

[Delannion]

I don't know about you guys, but I had to look up how to force attack things, something I never knew I could until someone else told a story about it. I just recently found out I can hold F to auto fight things. This stuff is not common sense, it makes sense, but it is no WASD.

 

That is exactly my point, and moreso, and moreso, and moreso.  We shouldn't have to work to attack on a pvp server. 

[Delannion]

r00d

 

Well, yeah, being honest is pretty much the opposite of being polite 

[tetrified]

It's not that hard... re-bind it if it is. PvP is not the devs' main focus right now, I think. Lots of imbalances. I vaguely remember one of them mentioning at PAX that it's temporary and/or so people don't accidentally attack each other during testing. So any combat is quite on purpose and not just a miss-click. Otherwise agreed with Rez.

 

If I wait 1min to post, Rez will post before I do. This is like, 5 times now. :\

 

I've actually accidentally attacked my girlfriend before, it was only a couple of hits, but there was something else I had to ctrl-f to attack, either a pigman or a frog, or a bee, I forget, but I hit her like twice instead before I noticed.

 

We both laughed pretty hard about it.

[Ridley]

That is exactly my point, and moreso, and moreso, and moreso.  We shouldn't have to work to attack on a pvp server. 

 

Or more accurately, research the internet or skim through the many controls to figure out that "force attack" is what allows me to attack whatever I want. No one likes reading how to play board games, hand me the dice and the spear and lets get the game on.

[tetrified]

No one likes reading how to play board games, hand me the dice and the spear and lets get the game on.

 

Back in my day, people read the instructions before they played games.

[Ridley]

Back in my day, people read the instructions before they played games.

 

Yes, but this game wants me to learn things on my own.

[tetrified]

Yes, but this game wants me to learn things on my own.

 

Except for controls, which is exactly why we have a list of them.

[Delannion]

Back in my day, people read the instructions before they played games.

 

Don't play this game, I win it.  

 

I read the instructions first. 

 

I thought long and hard for hundreds of hours first.

 

I played the game for hundreds of hours first, just to be sure I had things right.

 

 

Your argument is invalid.  It's not about 'instructions'.  It's about game design that missed in a pretty damn minor but still incredibly important way.

 

Don't try to act important. You're not. It's pretty damn simple.   

[tetrified]

Don't play this game, I win it.  

 

I read the instructions first. 

 

I thought long and hard for hundreds of hours first.

 

I played the game for hundreds of hours first, just to be sure I had things right.

 

 

Your argument is invalid.  It's not about 'instructions'.  It's about game design that missed in a pretty damn minor but still incredibly important way.

 

Don't try to act important. You're not. It's pretty damn simple.   

 

Literally the fourth control on the list.

 

 

You're right. It is pretty simple. You didn't read the instructions.

Why do people always start swearing when they're wrong?

[DarkXero]

All joking aside, I can't juke and dodge as effectively if I'm busy staring at the keyboard because attacking another player involves a complicated multi-click I've never needed for anything else in the history of the game.

 

You are busy staring at the keyboard for 2 keys. TWO KEYS. Complicated multi-click.

 

Well, if you can't rebind your keys, then:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=369420067

[Mysanthil]

I've actually accidentally attacked my girlfriend before, it was only a couple of hits, but there was something else I had to ctrl-f to attack, either a pigman or a frog, or a bee, I forget, but I hit her like twice instead before I noticed.

 

We both laughed pretty hard about it.

 

Yeah... since I figured out the force-attack button, I hit chester in RoG all the time. :\

[Rellin]

I am always having to explain in chat that you need to hold ctrl to attack other players.  I don't think CTRL should be required on PvP servers.

[Hersus]

Full PvP mod would be nice. I'm playing with friends kind of war game because in war game there is actually less thieves then in co-op, and it's more fun, only problem is when you die early and you have to wait. We start from randoming characters (all from original DS except Wes and Woodie (there is no mod with Woodie)) and drafting the world (every player chooses to + or - one thing in the world in a one round with 2-3 rounds) and then we play until only 1 man is alive (touchstones are forbidden)

[Asparagus]

confession Goose/Moose...

 

O_O

 

I use "Left Alt" instead of "F" for attack... it gives me more dexterity when using WASD to dodge and kite...

and "X" for Force attack... X+LMB... after the initial hit, I then switch to my default "Left Alt"... well, that's just me... but try it, see how it feels...

 

*bolt of lightning strikes... Goose/Moose flies away...

[Scoundreya]

Don't play this game, I win it.  

 

I read the instructions first. 

 

I thought long and hard for hundreds of hours first.

 

I played the game for hundreds of hours first, just to be sure I had things right.

 

 

Your argument is invalid.  It's not about 'instructions'.  It's about game design that missed in a pretty damn minor but still incredibly important way.

 

Don't try to act important. You're not. It's pretty damn simple.   

 

You played the game for "hundreds of hours" before figuring out how to do it yourself when in the beginning you could have simply glanced at the keybindings. As Tetrified said, it's literally the 4th option down, and one of the few option that has Anything to do with "attacking". Hopefully you'd be able to figure out pretty quick that it's how you attack other players by process of elimination of the keybindings. (I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you are capable of such things as I don't want to insult your intelligence, although the urge to do so is becoming stronger with every post of yours I've been seeing.)

 

OR even just asking in chat? Almost everytime I've played there have been newer players asking "How do I attack other players???" in the world chat and usually at least someone tells them that it's left-CTRL. And if no one does, well - hopefully the player will be resourceful enough to browse the keybindings and find out for themselves.

 

You talk about it being a missing part of game design for them to not have PvP attacking enabled by default left clicking or holding down default key "F" to attack other players.... Sorry but as others have said, PvP is not their focus right now. It was more of an afterthought so callng it a missing piece of Klei's game design is invalid. Your argument is the one that's in fact, invalid.

 

I also don't think he was trying to act important or anything at all really. He was simply trying to point out the flaw in your argument in that if you'd actually "read the directions" (i.e. browsed the keybindings as I stated above) you would have probably figured it out.

 

Again, as I said in the post about the linked wormholes, just because you think something should be added to the base game to make the game easier/more enjoyable to you does not mean it should be implemented. Mods are there for a reason....

[Azeria]

Besides, what if you decide to team up with another player to fight a bigger threat? If I go to hold down F and start running toward my temporary ally, it's going to seriously hinder the whole kiting thing. Like rezecib said, not all PvP servers are going to be this whole big bloodbath where the only thing people are going to be doing in sitting there punching each other in the face all day.

[Zinglon]

Well, yeah, being honest is pretty much the opposite of being polite 

 

No, being honest and being polite are not the poles of one axis.