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DST - Achievement, Balancing, and Benchmarking for 1 - 6 Players


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Hey Guys,

 

I have only been playing DST for around two weeks, though I have played it non stop with my stream viewers and am currently surviving on day 56. Therefore, there is a lot I may not know yet, though I have spent every second in the office when my boss is away reading guides and forums. :p Because I LOVE THIS GAME

 

That being said, I have a couple suggestions for this game to make it more of a complete and "together" experience for everyone playing. Because of time I  am going to just make a list. ( yes I am in the office right now muahahah)

 

  1. GIVE US ACHIEVEMENTS so we can brag to our friends!!!
  2. In order to have achievements we need balancing. This means we need game modes that are balanced for the number of players you set the game to. This means resources and enemies will be spawned in proportion to the number of players intended to play. The main reason I feel we need this is because when you set everything yo default and try and play with 6 people who all want to make a base together. YOU WILL STARVE, just not enough resources for every player in an immediate vicinity. (Dont talk to me about the need to split up because that isn't DST, that is DSS - Don't Starve Separately.)
  3. Yes I know I can use adjust the setting very easily in the edit world options but that brings me to my third point: Some people say that survived till day 1000 and some humbly say that cant get past winter.  So, does it mean player 1 is way better? No, because maybe he set berry, carrots, grass, sticks, rocks, beefalo, and rabbits to LOTS and turned off most enemies.  My point it, we need "Official" game mode settings that will alloy people to say "I got to day 67 on "X" mode with 3 of my friends!"    "No, ******* way, bro. You guys are 1337"   This also enables that to implement Achievements because it will be the same for all.
  4. In conclusion, I feel like these things are the only thing that keep me from really digging into this game as I am such an Achievement hunter. Yea I finally got past winter last night but it just doesn't feel right. I set carrots to lots because we starved so much and now I feel like I didn't really achieve anything... maybe we just cheated... sigh... GIVE ME OFFICIAL SETTINGS

 

My boss is coming back GTG 

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1.) There won't be achievements, Seth said so. There's only achievements on the PS4 version because Sony wants there to be achievements in all their games.

2.) Try creating a new world, but before you create it, click on "edit world options".

3.) Y'know, there is someone on the forums who made it to day 1,000. I think he didn't mess with the setting but I don't really check him out too much.

4.) Klei wants their community to stick around because they care about the game, not achievements.

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The main reason I feel we need this is because when you set everything yo default and try and play with 6 people who all want to make a base together. YOU WILL STARVE, just not enough resources for every player in an immediate vicinity. (Dont talk to me about the need to split up because that isn't DST, that is DSS - Don't Starve Separately.)

 

No. If you play with 6 random people, most likely yes. If you play with 6 very experienced friends, you can survive indefinitely by day 10, if not earlier. One Wickerbottom can support a 10+ server with minimal help. Wicker just makes it easier than it already could be. If all 6 people try to live on 'immediate vicinity' resources only... sorry, but that's not what good players do. Even in single player, I don't stick around my camp forever. Living to 1000 days is more a matter of patience than difficulty.

 

I would like stats on Klei's dedicated servers though. A host could spawn in anything, edited settings or no. Maybe a longest survivors list for the previous reset of the server. 

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1.) There won't be achievements, Seth said so. There's only achievements on the PS4 version because Sony wants there to be achievements in all their games.

2.) Try creating a new world, but before you create it, click on "edit world options".

3.) Y'know, there is someone on the forums who made it to day 1,000. I think he didn't mess with the setting but I don't really check him out too much.

4.) Klei wants their community to stick around because they care about the game, not achievements.

 

 

I feel like you guys completely misunderstood me or disregarded what I said. "Try creating a new world, but before you create it, click on "edit world options". Didn't I say I already did that and didn't feel right because I have no idea the real implications of each setting. Therefore, I want more official settings like easy, medium, hard, hardcore. so i can feel achievement when i beat one difficulty and move on to the next

 

I never said nobody could get to day 1000 legitimately and I understand It is also a matter of patience but me and my friends are not leet DST players like you and we enjoy having a bit of fun while trying to learn the game. we came to this game to play together and the idea of splitting up more than half the time is not going to make us enjoy the game. Not to mention there are 2 girls in our group and they are not the best gamers, but they enjoy the chance to play with us and contribute in any way that can.

 

I know some people see achievements as a cancer, but it doesnt mean this game doesn't need some kind of goal oriented motivation such as official settings. It doesn't matter how magical Klei thinks there game is, people will eventually get bored of surviving to day 100 and then giving up because they don't have the patience anymore.

 

I know what your thinking, "well if they find the game too easy they can click "edit world options" before they play." So they are going to be able to tell their friends "Yeah,l so my group survived till day 128"       "so what? I survived till day 1000930432"        "yeah, but we did it with less carrots, but more dogs, less berries, but more grass, long days, but only winter, more bees, but no butterflies, more clockwerk assholes, more deerclops, but less less krompus......blah blah blah blah..." do you get my point? They have hopefully play tested DST with many different group sizes and makeups and hopefully have come to a more complete understanding of the implication of each setting and can make a more accurate benchmark for players looking for a challenge. Maybe you don't like bench-marking but you can always click "edit world options"

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Hey Guys,

 

I have only been playing DST for around two weeks, though I have played it non stop with my stream viewers and am currently surviving on day 56. Therefore, there is a lot I may not know yet, though I have spent every second in the office when my boss is away reading guides and forums. :razz: Because I LOVE THIS GAME

 

That being said, I have a couple suggestions for this game to make it more of a complete and "together" experience for everyone playing. Because of time I  am going to just make a list. ( yes I am in the office right now muahahah)

 

  1. GIVE US ACHIEVEMENTS so we can brag to our friends!!!
  2. In order to have achievements we need balancing. This means we need game modes that are balanced for the number of players you set the game to. This means resources and enemies will be spawned in proportion to the number of players intended to play. The main reason I feel we need this is because when you set everything yo default and try and play with 6 people who all want to make a base together. YOU WILL STARVE, just not enough resources for every player in an immediate vicinity. (Dont talk to me about the need to split up because that isn't DST, that is DSS - Don't Starve Separately.)
  3. Yes I know I can use adjust the setting very easily in the edit world options but that brings me to my third point: Some people say that survived till day 1000 and some humbly say that cant get past winter.  So, does it mean player 1 is way better? No, because maybe he set berry, carrots, grass, sticks, rocks, beefalo, and rabbits to LOTS and turned off most enemies.  My point it, we need "Official" game mode settings that will alloy people to say "I got to day 67 on "X" mode with 3 of my friends!"    "No, ******* way, bro. You guys are 1337"   This also enables that to implement Achievements because it will be the same for all.
  4. In conclusion, I feel like these things are the only thing that keep me from really digging into this game as I am such an Achievement hunter. Yea I finally got past winter last night but it just doesn't feel right. I set carrots to lots because we starved so much and now I feel like I didn't really achieve anything... maybe we just cheated... sigh... GIVE ME OFFICIAL SETTINGS

 

My boss is coming back GTG 

 

1) no

2) we're not having achievements, you won't starve if you're all mildly experienced. You won't even starve if most of you are mildly experienced.

3) standard mode is all default settings, there are two more settings (default+ and lights out) if you want a "more hardcore" mode

4) official settings are all defaults, if you want to be satisfied by going through winter on "official settings", don't modify anything before you start the game.

 

Are you at least clearing your browsing history?

 

I get what you mean, I'm an achievement hunter too, but this game is just about not losing for longer than you didn't lose the last time you played. like I said "official settings" are default, unmodded don't starve.

 

EDIT: rereading my post made me lose the game.

I just thought all of you should know that.

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I know some people see achievements as a cancer, but it doesnt mean this game doesn't need some kind of goal oriented motivation such as official settings.

it's not that we "see it as cancer"(where do you get these expressions?), it's the fact that it doesn't fit in. Believe it or not, but there's a huge difference in the game telling you to do stuff and then yelling in your face "YEAH, YOU DID IT. YOU'RE AWESOME" and you figuring out these same things by yourself and saying to yourself "yep. Did this. I'm awesome.". Don't Starve is all about the second thing. Sense of achievment, not an achievment pop-up.

and if you want an easier or harder experience all you need to do is play default a couple of times and then think "hmm, what's killing me/making it too much easier... those hounds kill me  a lot, so I definitely want more/less of them" and so on. I do think that the world generation problem should be fixed, but even with that it's still simple.

 

 

In order to have achievements we need balancing.

Well, I guess in order to have meaningful gameplay, we also need balancing... but Yeah.... Achievments!

Hope you don't get fired...

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Not to mention there are 2 girls in our group and they are not the best gamers, but they enjoy the chance to play with us and contribute in any way that can.

 

Careful, I'm female. 

 

I don't care about achievements either way, that's Klei's choice.

 

 

I never said nobody could get to day 1000 legitimately and I understand It is also a matter of patience but me and my friends are not leet DST players like you and we enjoy having a bit of fun while trying to learn the game. we came to this game to play together and the idea of splitting up more than half the time is not going to make us enjoy the game.

 

It's great you're choosing to learn the game with your friends. Does that mean the game should be easier to learn than in single player? Should you each die less? I think it should balance out - you help each other learn by each discovering different things, so you all learn faster. However, you all waste more resources while learning and die more from it. 

 

Splitting up is often an efficient use of resources. Each player is a resource. But if you don't want to, you can probably find a way to travel together most of the time. I honestly haven't tried with 5+ people, it's probably not impossible.

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1) no

2) we're not having achievements, you won't starve if you're all mildly experienced. You won't even starve if most of you are mildly experienced.

3) standard mode is all default settings, there are two more settings (default+ and lights out) if you want a "more hardcore" mode

4) official settings are all defaults, if you want to be satisfied by going through winter on "official settings", don't modify anything before you start the game.

 

Are you at least clearing your browsing history?

 

I get what you mean, I'm an achievement hunter too, but this game is just about not losing for longer than you didn't lose the last time you played. like I said "official settings" are default, unmodded don't starve.

 

EDIT: rereading my post made me lose the game.

I just thought all of you should know that.

 

"You wont starve if your mildly experienced?"           with all do respect, don't be a ****.   I am mildly experienced and I play with 5 other people 3 of which are mildly experienced and we starve in winter day 30 with default settings. Yes i know it is because we try to stick together in one base and do things in groups but that is how we have fun. Let me guess the only people you play with are all 1000 plus DS game hours and know every recipe by heart.... of course it is easy for you to survive winter. Especially since you don't care about staying together and achieving the goal as a group but more each person pull their own weight kind of mentality. Here in China we do things together. Yours is Lord of the Flies, mine is Eldorado  (if everyone in Eldorado was starving to death and running around like a crazy person dying to dogs and insanity)

 

"The official settings are all defaults" so your telling me Klei is so lazy they only have one official setting for all levels of players and play styles?

 

You see that is my point ... you have fun playing the game as an elite survivor who might belong to a group but mostly just when it benefits you, I have fun as a member of a body whose only goal is to thrive together. I am sure there are many different playing styles out there and that is the main issue. I think Klei should make many different official setting for difficulty and play style. And you mentioned lights out mode, Yea that is what I am talking about. It seems they started to get the idea to make different modes, difficulties, and hurdles but then just gave up and was like ... naw...   I just feel like if they expect the players to do all this work then the game will still be awesome but it should be free. We pay them not just for the graphics and such but also the institution of the game experience itself.

 

I am sorry you died..... but I hope you learned your lesson..... Don't Starve  :p

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Didn't I say I already did that and didn't feel right because I have no idea the real implications of each setting. Therefore, I want more official settings like easy, medium, hard, hardcore.

 

There's presets for those. If you want it easy, go "Together Forever" if you want it normal go on "Default" if you want it hard do "Harsher World" and if you want "Hardcore" do "Lights Out" You can use them and then edit them.

 

I never said nobody could get to day 1000 legitimately and I understand It is also a matter of patience but me and my friends are not leet DST players like you and we enjoy having a bit of fun while trying to learn the game. we came to this game to play together and the idea of splitting up more than half the time is not going to make us enjoy the game. Not to mention there are 2 girls in our group and they are not the best gamers, but they enjoy the chance to play with us and contribute in any way that can.
 

I never said it was easy to get to day 1,000; I only said it was done by someone. I got to day 699 before my game crashed.

 

 

know some people see achievements as a cancer, but it doesnt mean this game doesn't need some kind of goal oriented motivation such as official settings. It doesn't matter how magical Klei thinks there game is, people will eventually get bored of surviving to day 100 and then giving up because they don't have the patience anymore.

As Ralph said, DS has it's own achievements. When you build a alchemy engine you're like "Yeah. I did this. I'm getting somewhere and feel self accomplishment!" We don't need achievements because we have our own achievements anyway.

I know what your thinking, "well if they find the game too easy they can click "edit world options" before they play." So they are going to be able to tell their friends "Yeah,l so my group survived till day 128"       "so what? I survived till day 1000930432"        "yeah, but we did it with less carrots, but more dogs, less berries, but more grass, long days, but only winter, more bees, but no butterflies, more clockwerk assholes friends, more deerclops, but less less krompus......blah blah blah blah..." do you get my point? They have hopefully play tested DST with many different group sizes and makeups and hopefully have come to a more complete understanding of the implication of each setting and can make a more accurate benchmark for players looking for a challenge. Maybe you don't like bench-marking but you can always click "edit world options"

Ever heard of the powedercake challenge?

People survive long sometimes because they sit infront of their computers typing in their console c_godmode(). Letting it run for about a few days.

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"You wont starve if your mildly experienced?"           with all do respect, don't be a ****.   I am mildly experienced and I play with 5 other people 3 of which are mildly experienced and we starve in winter day 30 with default settings. Yes i know it is because we try to stick together in one base and do things in groups but that is how we have fun. Let me guess the only people you play with are all 1000 plus DS game hours and know every recipe by heart.... of course it is easy for you to survive winter. Especially since you don't care about staying together and achieving the goal as a group but more each person pull their own weight kind of mentality. Here in China we do things together. Yours is Lord of the Flies, mine is Eldorado  (if everyone in Eldorado was starving to death and running around like a crazy person dying to dogs and insanity)

 

"The official settings are all defaults" so your telling me Klei is so lazy they only have one official setting for all levels of players and play styles?

 

You see that is my point ... you have fun playing the game as an elite survivor who might belong to a group but mostly just when it benefits you, I have fun as a member of a body whose only goal is to thrive together. I am sure there are many different playing styles out there and that is the main issue. I think Klei should make many different official setting for difficulty and play style. And you mentioned lights out mode, Yea that is what I am talking about. It seems they started to get the idea to make different modes, difficulties, and hurdles but then just gave up and was like ... naw...   I just feel like if they expect the players to do all this work then the game will still be awesome but it should be free. We pay them not just for the graphics and such but also the institution of the game experience itself.

 

I am sorry you died..... but I hope you learned your lesson..... Don't Starve   :razz:

 

Excuse me? I haven't played with anyone with more than a hundred hours (friends hours for reference are {19, 13, 21, 38, 8.9, 3.9}) in the base game. Clearly you're doing something wrong, then, are you actually using crockpots?

 

We do work and stay together, sometimes one of us will run off and grab something we need (mining stone, picking reeds, etc) but typically we hang out in or near the base chatting it up, fishing, and catching rabbits, because there's not much else to do when sitting around like that. We don't have "our own" resources, mostly because when we all play together, we don't need to.

 

I'm the only person in my group with over a hundred hours (149 to be exact) in the base game, and yes, I probably would do better alone, but I enjoy trying to figure out what to do with all this extra meat before it spoils with friends so much more than I do alone. And sitting around the campfire telling stories through the night is so much better than staring at my map and looking through my crafting menus

 

So maybe try thinking before you assume so much about a person you don't know?

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I am mildly experienced and I play with 5 other people 3 of which are mildly experienced and we starve in winter day 30 with default settings. Yes i know it is because we try to stick together in one base and do things in groups but that is how we have fun. Let me guess the only people you play with are all 1000 plus DS game hours and know every recipe by heart.... of course it is easy for you to survive winter. Especially since you don't care about staying together and achieving the goal as a group but more each person pull their own weight kind of mentality. 

 

No. DST is not too hard. For this type of game, it is meant to be more difficult. You are given literally no instructions. I died twice before I figured out how to live past my first night. But once you've figured out most of the mechanics, the game is much easier. There are people on the forums complaining from both sides of the spectrum - too hard, too easy. For rogue-like games, it should be leaning on the difficult side.

 

Each person does need to pull their own weight, but it's much more efficient if you do it cooperatively. With more people, there are more mistakes, more waste of resources = more difficult. I don't see a problem with that. Just learn from mistakes.

 

 

Here in China we do things together.

What does this have to do with anything? I'm Chinese too.

 

 

"The official settings are all defaults" so your telling me Klei is so lazy they only have one official setting for all levels of players and play styles?

Please note the plurals in your quoted comment. There are a few presets and 3 game modes currently in the beta.

 

 

You see that is my point ... you have fun playing the game as an elite survivor who might belong to a group but mostly just when it benefits you, I have fun as a member of a body whose only goal is to thrive together.

I don't consider myself elite, just experienced. I've played 200+ hours, but I'm not very imaginative. I don't think of creative solutions, I just learn from my mistakes and learn from how other people do things. On non-PvP worlds, I do play as one of the group. Fighting a 3-tier den is easier with more people, but not if someone makes a mistake - that's not the game's fault. I don't expect or want someone who has no idea how to kite enemies to help me kill a beefalo. They should watch and learn, but not get themselves killed. If someone wants to collect grass with me, we should split up the map so we're not overlapping. But I do bring back koalefants so others can help get that first hit off. 

 

 

I just feel like if they expect the players to do all this work then the game will still be awesome but it should be free.

So what part of the code base did you do for Klei? We are giving them suggestions and feedback to make the game better for us and so they can make a better game. Both sides get the benefits here.

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I don't have views one way or the other about achievements, but I DID mess around the settings a lot when I first played DS Single; it was just too hard! I totally see where you're coming from with not knowing the implications of the worlds settings, I really screwed myself over by adding extra beefalo and stuff, thinking I'd just get more poop.I eventually found a combination of the settings that actually made the game easier, but in the time that took I'd actually got better at the game. I found myself suriving fine in a world, and wishing I'd made it harder... So it's quite possible (probably in my opinion) you'll start a game on 'easy mode', then wish you hadn't later. But there is no reason why not to have these settings I suppose.

 

With that being said, do you mind sharing a little bit about your playstyle? Maybe we can help you out. If you're Starving in Winter by day 30, you probably need to adjust your playstyle. Please don't take that the wrong way, I mean it constructively. Share how you play and maybe we can help you out?

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No offence, but I don't think you've put in the hours yet to make any valid suggestions that concern balancing and spawn rates. If you need to set carrots to "lots" just to not starve with your group that doesn't mean the game needs rebalancing, that only means you need more experience.

 

 

Again that doesn't mean you can't make valuable suggestions just because you're a newbie, but you ought to be a bit more experienced before you tackle something delicate like game balance. The game really does get exponentially easier with more people contributing, but only if they are experienced people instead of resource and time drains.

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Hey there, welcome to the game and welcome to the forums!

Strange that no one has brought this up yet. Personal feelings aside, achievements will not be added to the game. Klei's official response on how they feel about this sort of thing was released in a PennyArcade article in 2012, when singleplayer was being developed. That article can no longer be pulled up on the site, but a forward-thinking forum member named Zero_Starlight archived it himself via Google Docs: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9hPcfx6Wec5YjgtWWZJR3A0Yzg/edit

TL;DR
Don't Starve is an "uncompromising survival game".

Both Kevin and Jamie felt strongly that they did not want to force a particular manner of gameplay by guiding players into making certain decisions just to receive rewards. This was predictable, boring, and caused players to quit the game once guidance ceased. Instead, they want you to find the motivation and drive within yourself, as that is the ultimate reward. Overcoming adversity and challenge on your own terms provides long-lasting results that will stick with a person long after the glory of beating a side-quest has faded from memory.

You are given a crafting menu, and have resources at your disposal to interact with and overcome this harsh landscape. Prior to starting the game, you can adjust world settings to be easier or harder, or even try out a couple presets they made (or make your own!). That is all the hand-holding and direction they will give you. You can be as creative and goal-oriented as you want in mastering the environment - the sky is the limit. You need to put on your own thinkin' cap though.

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No offence, but I don't think you've put in the hours yet to make any valid suggestions that concern balancing and spawn rates. If you need to set carrots to "lots" just to not starve with your group that doesn't mean the game needs rebalancing, that only means you need more experience.

 

 

Again that doesn't mean you can't make valuable suggestions just because you're a newbie, but you ought to be a bit more experienced before you tackle something delicate like game balance. The game really does get exponentially easier with more people contributing, but only if they are experienced people instead of resource and time drains.

 

 

you guys honestly are not listening to and ******* thing i am saying........ Sorry I bothered.... exit

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I don't have views one way or the other about achievements, but I DID mess around the settings a lot when I first played DS Single; it was just too hard! I totally see where you're coming from with not knowing the implications of the worlds settings, I really screwed myself over by adding extra beefalo and stuff, thinking I'd just get more poop.I eventually found a combination of the settings that actually made the game easier, but in the time that took I'd actually got better at the game. I found myself suriving fine in a world, and wishing I'd made it harder... So it's quite possible (probably in my opinion) you'll start a game on 'easy mode', then wish you hadn't later. But there is no reason why not to have these settings I suppose.

 

With that being said, do you mind sharing a little bit about your playstyle? Maybe we can help you out. If you're Starving in Winter by day 30, you probably need to adjust your playstyle. Please don't take that the wrong way, I mean it constructively. Share how you play and maybe we can help you out?

 

 

Thank God someone actually gets where i am coming from. I was about to go crazy... thank you

 

I dont take your suggestion as an insult but rather as a friend listening to my problem and helping me. It feels like most people on this forum are just too elitist and dont even consider not everyone has the time to play this game as much as they do or have. Anyways, my play style with my group is mostly about jobs. like one person collect sticks and grass... one person collect berry bushes... one person organizes the base and two people go out on runs together to get meat and any supplies needed.... things are flexible but the main problem seems to be a real lack of food and the distractions of dogs and dying and such. Inventory space is the real killer i suppose because me and my buddy Toxic are the best at the game and we do the runs but must come back often to drop supplies off. Also we play on world map huge... more adventure that way.

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In terms of food production your best bet is ignoring things that may seem like the best way to get food. I've seen a lot of time wasted trying to get and fertilize enough berry bushes, and get enough farm plots together. By the time you get these things set up, winter hits and they are all useless. What you want is a food source not dependent on summer. What you're aiming for is a birdcage, spider dens and rabbit traps.

 

If you visit spider dens and kill the spiders (either with traps or weapons if you're a bit more confident) you'll get Monster Meat (MM), Silk and Glands; the silk and glands are useful but what we're after is the MM. If any of these dens get to Tier 3 (look this up if you're not sure what I'm talking about) you want to destroy it (see guides for this). The egg produced when this is destroyed allows you to move the den nearer (not too near!) to your base to make this easier. MM is an extremely valuable food resource, as it counts as 1 meat... Morsels only count as 0.5 meat (see the Food wiki for more info on this). Now you have MM.

 

Rabbit traps provide morsels; you probably already know about this.

 

The birdcage allows you to convert MM (after cooking it over a fire) into Eggs. The birdcage will require 8 reeds (go to a swamp) to make papyrus, some gold and some seeds - finding these is a much better use of your time than farms and berry bushes. You also need silk (good thing you're farming spiders) to make a bird trap. Use this to catch a bird and put it in your cage.

 

Now you have access to Eggs, MM and Morsels. The recipe for Bacon and Eggs in the crockpot, is 1 MM, 1 Morsel and 2 Eggs. Since you turn your MM to eggs, that means 3/4 of the items you require come from MM; this is good since spiders re-spawn extremely fast. Obviously you get the morsel from your rabbit traps, so set up near rabbits!

 

If you need more information about this let me know. Enjoy!

 

Edit: The beauty of this is that it works exactly the same in Winter as it does in summer.

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Adding on to what BeastNips said, if you run out of grass and twigs (which can sometimes happen in winter) make boomerangs and actively hunt the rabbits. Boomerangs are just one board, one charcoal and one silk to make. You can also take out a turkey in two hits with one.

 

And keep the hounds away from your spider nest. Unless you have two+ higher level nests, they're no match and the nest will be destroyed by the hounds. Especially fire hounds.

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DS and DST have a sense of achievements like others have said. While for some games such as Binding Of Isaac, where achievements fit nicely, DS is not one of those games that are meant for achievements. Most sense of achievements are radical things like getting through winter with 4 willows without anything burning down or killing a tree guard with bare fists. All in all, DS is about beating something and feeling accomplished, not the game saying GOOD JOB KID HERES A NICE LIL BOX FOR YOU.

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Especially since you don't care about staying together and achieving the goal as a group but more each person pull their own weight kind of mentality. Here in China we do things together. Yours is Lord of the Flies, mine is Eldorado  (if everyone in Eldorado was starving to death and running around like a crazy person dying to dogs and insanity)

 

 

Doesn't matter the method, you're still getting things done for the betterment of everyone. You can still play and survive together without having to hold hands and skip down the paved road.

 

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