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Isosurface

Sanity paradox: rabbit trap

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LadyMeda    88

Similarly, the night hand paradox: Can a night hand appear and extinguish a camp fire while there are both sane and insane players around?

My suggestion is that night hand can only appear if the population is insane (again, based on the percentage average).

I'm still wondering about this. Personally I think it would be AWESOME if night hands could spawn and steal the fire if only one person around it was insane. Then other players would have to decide whether to banish insane people into the cold, dark night.

"Aww, c'mon guys!!! Who invited night hands to the bonfire!"

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secret333    1

By the way, it would make more sense to just have the player who opens the trap decide whether it be rabbit or beardling. Also, if it's killed by a tooth trap, it should depend on who placed said tooth trap. If the rabbit starves to death in a trap, whoever opens the trap.

I agree with this, but giving a live beardling to another player through a chest or other means should have the sane player's client see it as a rabbit, and if they kill it get rabbit loot. Beardlords and Bunnymen can also be seen client side and have the damage sync over the server. Nighthands and other insane creatures should disappear if a sane player is close enough to the insane player.(Making them feel better?)

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Elipod    5

If we consider stuff of nightmares to be real and fuelled by person's insanity, then one insane player should be enough to turn all nearby bunnies into beardlings, as well as summon shadow creatures.

Sane players might not see or be affected shadow creatures directly, but they will see bunnies transforming and dropping different loot, just as monkeys will transform during nightmare cycle, regardless of your sanity. Sane players might not see shadow hands, summoned by insane player, but if he won't prevent the hands from reaching fire pit, then the fire is extinguished for everyone.

Also, maybe, if multiple insane people gather in the same place, this might trigger nightmare cycle on overworld.

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SuperSuit12    1

The items thing is an interesting idea. Perhaps shadows could come over an area of an insane player, making everything look and act insane for EVERYONE? The more insane, the further the shadow. Shadow Creatures would simply ignore other players who aren't insane, as well.

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SuperSuit12    1

If we consider stuff of nightmares to be real and fuelled by person's insanity, then one insane player should be enough to turn all nearby bunnies into beardlings, as well as summon shadow creatures.

Sane players might not see or be affected shadow creatures directly, but they will see bunnies transforming and dropping different loot, just as monkeys will transform during nightmare cycle, regardless of your sanity. Sane players might not see shadow hands, summoned by insane player, but if he won't prevent the hands from reaching fire pit, then the fire is extinguished for everyone.

Also, maybe, if multiple insane people gather in the same place, this might trigger nightmare cycle on overworld.

The Nightmare Cycle on the overworld doesn't make sense. There's nothing to be triggered by it.

Also, I apologize for the doublepost. I can't find the edit button.

And I did not see this post until I had made mine, so apparently we think alike.

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chromiumboy    329

They mention in the latest stream that players who are sane will not be able to see the nightmare creatures stalking nearby insane players. Not sure how they'll handle tooth traps, but I'd bet the loot that drops from a rabbit murdered in your inventory with be dependent on the sanity of the player holding it. They could just make it so rabbits don't set off tooth traps :p

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XirmiX    754

I'm still wondering about this. Personally I think it would be AWESOME if night hands could spawn and steal the fire if only one person around it was insane. Then other players would have to decide whether to banish insane people into the cold, dark night.

"Aww, c'mon guys!!! Who invited night hands to the bonfire!"

Yeah, devs are quite smart, especially sinse they are not connecting the shadow creatures from insane people to being seen by the sane. So far the only sanity paradox is the rabbits dying not by player attacks while there are sane and insane people around. Thought my previous suggestion made quite a lot of sense, thought I think the game would probably crash, so this needs to be programmed (look at my posts before to see my suggestion/s)

It could drop both, but he meat only appears to the sane character, and the beard hair appears to the insane character.

Then there would be the whole thing of sane people not seing monster meat and meat not being seen by insane people, which would make the game bodonculous. Sorry for double post, I'm on my mobile and can't be asked to cut, edit and paste :(

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LadyMeda    88

It should depend on who kills it.

No one killed it. A trap killed it. That's the point of the thread. If there are both sane and insane players around, what does the trap drop? Monster meat or morsel?

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the truthseeker    1,560

Yeah, devs are quite smart, especially sinse they are not connecting the shadow creatures from insane people to being seen by the sane. So far the only sanity paradox is the rabbits dying not by player attacks while there are sane and insane people around. Thought my previous suggestion made quite a lot of sense, thought I think the game would probably crash, so this needs to be programmed (look at my posts before to see my suggestion/s)

 

No one killed it. A trap killed it. That's the point of the thread. If there are both sane and insane players around, what does the trap drop? Monster meat or morsel?

Yeah, I was concerned about who gets what, but completely forgot when two people  go after the same thing in "different states" at the same time, it can potentially crash the client too as the MP mods showed back then.  

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LadyMeda    88

Yeah, I was concerned about who gets what, but completely forgot when two people  go after the same thing in "different states" at the same time, it can potentially crash the client too as the MP mods showed back then.

...ouch

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T4T3RGR3NAD3R    2,749

No one killed it. A trap killed it. That's the point of the thread. If there are both sane and insane players around, what does the trap drop? Monster meat or morsel?

 

I mean the one who strikes the final blow, outside or inside the trap. For example, nutty willow stabs it, monster meat drops. Sane ol' Wilson flattens it with a bat, morsel is dropped.

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I don't think it should be an average. I think if a rabbit is killed in a way that is indirect to the player, it drops a morsel. If the insane player harvests a trap, a beardling is given. It depends on who interacts with it.

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LadyMeda    88

I mean the one who strikes the final blow, outside or inside the trap. For example, nutty willow stabs it, monster meat drops. Sane ol' Wilson flattens it with a bat, morsel is dropped.

 

But... lets say bat-poo-crazy Willow sets a rabbit trap.  The trap kills the bunny.  No one deals the "final blow".   Totally-sane Wilson picks up the trap.  Does the trap drop crazy loot or sane loot?

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rezecib    3,142

But... lets say bat-poo-crazy Willow sets a rabbit trap.  The trap kills the bunny.  No one deals the "final blow".   Totally-sane Wilson picks up the trap.  Does the trap drop crazy loot or sane loot?

 

The simplest solution to this is that until the trap is picked up, the bunny is both alive and dead bunny's remains are neither monster nor natural. Once the trap is picked up, it uses the sanity of the player who picked it up.

 

Regarding environmental deaths of the beardbunnylings, such as being killed by fire or a boomerang or whatever, using the closest player's sanity should work. For those saying that there could be two players at the same distance, that's not a problem. An example of an algorithm that would be immune to that is as follows:

 

1) Beardbunnyling dies

2) Calculate the distance between the beardbunnyling and each players in the game.

3) Add this distance (linked to the player) to a priority queue sorting for lowest.

4) Pop one distance-player pair from the priority queue.

5) Use this player's sanity to determine the drops.

 

With this sort of implementation even if two players are somehow exactly the same distance (as in the distance difference is so small that the floating point representation is actually the same -- this is extraordinarily unlikely, practically impossible), the priority queue will end up with one of them in the first position arbitrarily.

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T4T3RGR3NAD3R    2,749

But... lets say bat-poo-crazy Willow sets a rabbit trap.  The trap kills the bunny.  No one deals the "final blow".   Totally-sane Wilson picks up the trap.  Does the trap drop crazy loot or sane loot?

 

The trap won't kill the rabbit. If somebody picks up the trap, a beardling or rabbit will be in their inventory, no issue. The real question is, what happens if a mob kills a rabbit?

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rezecib    3,142

The trap won't kill the rabbit. If somebody picks up the trap, a beardling or rabbit will be in their inventory, no issue. The real question is, what happens if a mob kills a rabbit?

 

I think LadyMeda was referring to the RoG scenario where a rabbit is caught in a trap, then dies of starvation.

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T4T3RGR3NAD3R    2,749

I think LadyMeda was referring to the RoG scenario where a rabbit is caught in a trap, then dies of starvation.

 

Oh. We won't have to worry about that for a while, but it probably depends on who checks the trap.

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the truthseeker    1,560

The simplest solution to this is that until the trap is picked up, the bunny is both alive and dead bunny's remains are neither monster nor natural. Once the trap is picked up, it uses the sanity of the player who picked it up.

 

Regarding environmental deaths of the beardbunnylings, such as being killed by fire or a boomerang or whatever, using the closest player's sanity should work. For those saying that there could be two players at the same distance, that's not a problem. An example of an algorithm that would be immune to that is as follows:

 

1) Beardbunnyling dies

2) Calculate the distance between the beardbunnyling and each players in the game.

3) Add this distance (linked to the player) to a priority queue sorting for lowest.

4) Pop one distance-player pair from the priority queue.

5) Use this player's sanity to determine the drops.

 

With this sort of implementation even if two players are somehow exactly the same distance (as in the distance difference is so small that the floating point representation is actually the same -- this is extraordinarily unlikely, practically impossible), the priority queue will end up with one of them in the first position arbitrarily.

 

 

I think LadyMeda was referring to the RoG scenario where a rabbit is caught in a trap, then dies of starvation.

 

 

Oh. We won't have to worry about that for a while, but it probably depends on who checks the trap.

When we need Quantum Physics to determine the tiebreaker solution, it's anything but "simple" 

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tarod    16

The devs can create new item types "rabbit remains" 1 2 and 3 that will appear to be a morsel for sane players and meat, hair or nightmare fuel for insane ones. When the item is picked up it changes to a normal item of that type. 

 

edit: I guess then you'd run into problems like what happens when it catches fire and does a spider or pig eat it...

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Jonat    2

I'm curious why you're considering that the drop has to be one or the other - which i presume is due to server coding. But why couldn't it be both? To the insane player, he/she sees insane loot. While the sane player sees sane loot.

 

Seems more straightforward that way?

 

The server just drops both, but one being picked up deletes the other (even if it were picked up at the same time - one would be processed before the other).

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the truthseeker    1,560

I'm curious why you're considering that the drop has to be one or the other - which i presume is due to server coding. But why couldn't it be both? To the insane player, he/she sees insane loot. While the sane player sees sane loot.

 

Seems more straightforward that way?

 

The server just drops both, but one being picked up deletes the other (even if it were picked up at the same time - one would be processed before the other).

Simultaneous attempts to retrieve it could still potentially crash the game then. 

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