Maple Trees and Syrup?


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Just a thought for when the seasons get implemented. (If its been mentioned before I apologize.) There should be maple trees year round but you can only harvest the syrup from it during the winter. This would need to have tools to go along with it (bucket and needle.) You would get sap, and then you would have to cook it to get syrup (if it becomes overpowered, then just increase the amount of sap needed for syrup.)

Just an idea. Thoughts fellow Starvers?

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I too support this idea, but not necessarily the implementation. Seems like a lot of changes...

Perhaps just make maple trees drop a unit of Syrup whenever you chop it once with the ax. That way, if you chop it too many times, you lose the tree as well!

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Say, maple syrup could make way for more recipes. Like cooking the syrup can give you maple sugar, cook it with a twig and you get lolipops (and if you use ice, a popsicle), cook it with meat and you get maple bacon, the possibilities seem endless! :D

I like it. Maybe syrup could be another healer like honey, but to remove conditions like being poisoned etc..

I never thought of that possibility, only hunger points. Removing status conditions sounds good to me :)

I too support this idea, but not necessarily the implementation. Seems like a lot of changes...

Perhaps just make maple trees drop a unit of Syrup whenever you chop it once with the ax. That way, if you chop it too many times, you lose the tree as well!

Yeah, it does seem like a lot of change at once. I agree they should have a lifespan though for how many times you can harvest, not so much the chopping for syrup. Do you mean like one chop=one syrup or one cut tree=one syrup?

Or you first need to craft a tap for each tree, but once in place you just need to wait for more sap to be available to harvest. Maybe the tap drips when it´s ready for harvest.

Hmmmm...I like that, maybe combine that with what Dom-Sithe said, so there's only so many harvests with the tap until it runs dry?

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I meant 1 chop = 1 syrup. I'm not sure offhand, but trees have a set number of times they need to be hit before being felled, and I BELIEVE this number resets each time it moves to the next stage in the life cycle. IE, if you hit a large tree 3 times, let it follow its life cycle into death, then let it grow into a tiny tree, then up to a large again, would it need the full number of chops again, or does the 3 initial chops still count? (anyone confirm?) Anyway, since the maple trees would also have the life cycle (presumably), and they would only produce syrup at one stage (again, presumably), you could only harvest X amount during each life cycle. If you accidentally chop it down, you get no more at all.

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I meant 1 chop = 1 syrup. I'm not sure offhand, but trees have a set number of times they need to be hit before being felled, and I BELIEVE this number resets each time it moves to the next stage in the life cycle. IE, if you hit a large tree 3 times, let it follow its life cycle into death, then let it grow into a tiny tree, then up to a large again, would it need the full number of chops again, or does the 3 initial chops still count? (anyone confirm?) Anyway, since the maple trees would also have the life cycle (presumably), and they would only produce syrup at one stage (again, presumably), you could only harvest X amount during each life cycle. If you accidentally chop it down, you get no more at all.

Oh, okay. I get it now, that could work. Also you bring up an interesting thought regarding aging of the trees. It can just be the one stage that produces sap, prevents reliance on one food source.

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I meant 1 chop = 1 syrup. I'm not sure offhand, but trees have a set number of times they need to be hit before being felled, and I BELIEVE this number resets each time it moves to the next stage in the life cycle. IE, if you hit a large tree 3 times, let it follow its life cycle into death, then let it grow into a tiny tree, then up to a large again, would it need the full number of chops again, or does the 3 initial chops still count? (anyone confirm?) Anyway, since the maple trees would also have the life cycle (presumably), and they would only produce syrup at one stage (again, presumably), you could only harvest X amount during each life cycle. If you accidentally chop it down, you get no more at all.

Now that's one well thought and balanced suggestion. Simple to implement yet introduces a new mechanic the player can discover, study and exploit.

What would happen though if you completely chop it down? Dropping a (insert equivalent of pine cone for maple trees here _____) would beat the purpose. If you cut the tree you should loose it for good. No magical replanting.

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I remember a while back, when we were discussing ranged weapons one idea was to craft a slingshot, but that required rubber. The solution was to allow players to craft two items, a spiggot and a bucket. The idea was that the bucket could have otehr uses, like gathering water for crops, while the spiggot would be attached to a rubber tree, which when a bucket was also attached, would collect rubber slowly over time (like how bee hives collect honey).

The same idea could be used here, you would be able to craft a bucket (for collecting water, rubber sap, and now maple syrup) and the spiggot (now used for rubber & maple trees) for use in collecting these resources. The idea would be that it gathers slowly over time, which would go more in-hand with another suggestion for increased durations for tree growth cycles... as a tree suddenly dying on you would cause problems for this setup.

My only concern with 1 chop = 1 syrup, is the fact that you can chop a tree very quickly and a large tree takes a lot of chopping to cut down. So getting 20 syrup per mature tree would blow honey collection out of the water.

On a side note, I like the idea of syrup replacing honey during winter, as in another thread I suggested players shouldn't be able to collect honey during winter.

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Perhaps if you haven't chopped it AT ALL it would have chance to drop a seed in a certain season, thus taking a long time to reproduce.

Hmmm, yes, that sounds pretty good. Of course, there's the chance of accidentally killing all the maple trees if you aren't careful. I love it.:twisted:

My only concern with 1 chop = 1 syrup, is the fact that you can chop a tree very quickly and a large tree takes a lot of chopping to cut down. So getting 20 syrup per mature tree would blow honey collection out of the water.

True. We could go back to the first idea then, which was have just sap drop, and from that, you need to cook 4 of them in a crock pot to obtain syrup. Then you wouldn't end up with such an overwhelming amount of syrup. And if there's still concern for exploiting the sap, then make it so you need a tap and bucket in order to harvest, this can limit the amount of sap you can use at once.

I know a Large tree is 20% of an ax, but I thought it was 7 chops?

That's for a small tree.

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I´d prefer to see a craftable item like a tap which is then placed on the maple tree, and the tree can only provide a certain amount over a certain length of time. Balancing it based on how many maple trees are available in an area, to avoid mass harvesting of sap.

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That's for a small tree.

I just went and tested it! And its somewhere in between actually.

For a small tree he shows the chopping animation 7 times, the audio plays 9 times, and it uses 10% ax. For a large tree the chopping animation plays 15 times, the audio plays 18 whacks, and it uses 20% of an ax.

Strange.... anyway, yes, we go back to the getting sap to drop, and using crock pot to make syrup. Assuming there are supposed to be 20 chops, then we end up with 4 syrup 3 sap and a live tree, or 5 syrup and a dead one.

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Hello everyone. (This is my first post, so please be gentle with me, sempais.)

I think the maple trees and syrup collecting is genius. To add on to Jujubomber's idea, maybe once you collect the sap from the tree, it would wither, thus making the tree unusable for the player to harvest from it again. And then after 2 days or so, the tree would morph back into the smallest stage then from then the tree would grow back into the adult stage (which would be the only time sap could be harvested).

To make it a bit more challenging, the maple trees should have a chance of completely dying if you harvest from it too often.

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Hello everyone. (This is my first post, so please be gentle with me, sempais.).

Welcome aboard!

I think the maple trees and syrup collecting is genius. To add on to Jujubomber's idea, maybe once you collect the sap from the tree, it would wither, thus making the tree unusable for the player to harvest from it again. And then after 2 days or so, the tree would morph back into the smallest stage then from then the tree would grow back into the adult stage (which would be the only time sap could be harvested).

To make it a bit more challenging, the maple trees should have a chance of completely dying if you harvest from it too often.

Hmm, except for the chance it would just die, this is a good way to do the tapping method.

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I´d prefer to see a craftable item like a tap which is then placed on the maple tree, and the tree can only provide a certain amount over a certain length of time. Balancing it based on how many maple trees are available in an area, to avoid mass harvesting of sap.

I gave this idea, which I originally supported, more thought and it just wouldn't work. The problem is that in order for it to work the tree would need to remain static, but as we all know trees have growth cycles, one of which is they die (before being reborn). This would completely mess with the tap/bucket process as it would, at the very least, force one or both to be dropped to the ground when the tree died. Messy.

No... for harvesting from trees we need the results to be instantaneous as a direct result of the player's actions. Similar to picking fruit from a fruit tree.

Hello everyone. (This is my first post, so please be gentle with me, sempais.)

No problem fellow Canadian. ;)

I think the maple trees and syrup collecting is genius. To add on to Jujubomber's idea, maybe once you collect the sap from the tree, it would wither, thus making the tree unusable for the player to harvest from it again. And then after 2 days or so, the tree would morph back into the smallest stage then from then the tree would grow back into the adult stage (which would be the only time sap could be harvested).

This might work, of course I say this while juggling several different suggestions in my mind, one of which is that trees should have a new first stage cycle, the seedling, which wouldn't be much of a tree. Hmm. The part of your idea I like the most is the impact to the tree, as once the player interacts with it the tree changes to show you cannot drain anymore syrup from it. Of course it would need to change much fater than 2 Days, as I think the tree growth cycle would potentially cause some conflict in the collection process.

True. We could go back to the first idea then, which was have just sap drop, and from that, you need to cook 4 of them in a crock pot to obtain syrup. Then you wouldn't end up with such an overwhelming amount of syrup. And if there's still concern for exploiting the sap, then make it so you need a tap and bucket in order to harvest, this can limit the amount of sap you can use at once.

While I'm not overwhelmed by this suggestion, it does at least address the quantity per tree issue (by "dividing" the sap to get the syrup) and it allows for an immeditely result. My only suggestion is that we don't use the axe to acquire sap, but rather another item... something like a tap, but rather than waiting you would use it on the tree (like the axe) to drain sap. Maybe you hammer the "tap" into the tree, the tap loses % durability, you gain 1 sap puddle. Wash, rinse, repeat, until either all the sap is gone or the "tap" breaks.

Strange.... anyway, yes, we go back to the getting sap to drop, and using crock pot to make syrup. Assuming there are supposed to be 20 chops, then we end up with 4 syrup 3 sap and a live tree, or 5 syrup and a dead one.

Hmmm. This brings up another issue. When you harvest honey from a bee box you get all the honey at once. Not 1 per click (unless your inventory is full when you do it). That works because after you've harvested the honey the bee box appears different (i.e. no longer overflowing with honey). If you gather sap from maple tree at 1 sap per "attempt" then the game needs to track more than whether the tree is empty/full, it now needs to track how much sap is still in a maple tree.

To avoid this, maybe we need to have all the sap come from the tree all at once. And simply have it that the size of the tree determines the amount of sap that you collect. To limit the impact maybe maple trees could be uncommon, like berry bushes, but non-replantable (so you need to always find them). I also want to say that, which the addition of seasons, that we should only allow maple trees to provide sap during autumn and once per year (i.e. only next autumn do the trees regain their sap).

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My only suggestion is that we don't use the axe to acquire sap, but rather another item... something like a tap, but rather than waiting you would use it on the tree (like the axe) to drain sap. Maybe you hammer the "tap" into the tree, the tap loses % durability, you gain 1 sap puddle. Wash, rinse, repeat, until either all the sap is gone or the "tap" breaks.

Yeah I don´t feel using an axe to gather sap is the way. Having a tap means there´s another item to craft, and another process to perform to acquire a resource, yay for more content!

If you gather sap from maple tree at 1 sap per "attempt" then the game needs to track more than whether the tree is empty/full, it now needs to track how much sap is still in a maple tree.

To avoid this, maybe we need to have all the sap come from the tree all at once. And simply have it that the size of the tree determines the amount of sap that you collect.

After some thought, I agree, can´t keep the tap in place on the tree for long. So, my thought is that you can only harvest the sap once the tree reaches full size, then the tree seeps sap out to show you it´s ready for harvest. Once you´ve collected the sap, there is no more seeping and the tree continues it´s life cycle.

I also want to say that, which the addition of seasons, that we should only allow maple trees to provide sap during autumn and once per year (i.e. only next autumn do the trees regain their sap).

This is a good way to allow for a lot more maple trees to exist on the map, otherwise there would need to be less to prevent mass harvests.

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After some thought, I agree, can´t keep the tap in place on the tree for long. So, my thought is that you can only harvest the sap once the tree reaches full size, then the tree seeps sap out to show you it´s ready for harvest. Once you´ve collected the sap, there is no more seeping and the tree continues it´s life cycle.

Well I was thinking of it in terms of how you gather logs today. When a player chops down a tree they are given a number of logs based on the age of the tree (i.e. 1 log for a small tree, 2 logs for a medium tree, 3 logs for a large tree, 0 logs for decayed tree). Maybe the maple tree, which would have similar cycles, could provide sap based on when you decided to "tap" it. So it wouldn't give you any sap if it was decayed, and the least amount of sap if it was in its "small" stage. The player would need to decide for themselves whether it was worth collecting whatever sap they could get right then and there, or coming back a bit later when the tree is in its medium/large stage of growth.

I should also mention I think tree cycles should last longer. Then again, I haven't studied how long each cycle of growth currently lasts. Has anyone done that yet?

This is a good way to allow for a lot more maple trees to exist on the map, otherwise there would need to be less to prevent mass harvests.

True. Of course this is just a balance tool. Any resource can use varied durations to manage how often players can use them. I remember back when we argued for extending the amount of time before berry bushes regained their berries. It's the same idea here, only with once per year... a guessing at 30 days per season... that's maybe once every ~120 days you would be able to harvest a maple tree.

The other factor would be "How many maple trees are there?".

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Well I was thinking of it in terms of how you gather logs today. When a player chops down a tree they are given a number of logs based on the age of the tree (i.e. 1 log for a small tree, 2 logs for a medium tree, 3 logs for a large tree, 0 logs for decayed tree). Maybe the maple tree, which would have similar cycles, could provide sap based on when you decided to "tap" it. So it wouldn't give you any sap if it was decayed, and the least amount of sap if it was in its "small" stage. The player would need to decide for themselves whether it was worth collecting whatever sap they could get right then and there, or coming back a bit later when the tree is in its medium/large stage of growth.

I should also mention I think tree cycles should last longer. Then again, I haven't studied how long each cycle of growth currently lasts. Has anyone done that yet?

Yeah it´s probably easier for the devs to implement this. And I agree the trees should have longer growth cycle since well, they can live for thousands of years.

that's maybe once every ~120 days you would be able to harvest a maple tree.

hmm, that´s quite some time to wait for a harvest. i suppose it depends on how long a year takes ingame, meaning how many ingame days a year is.

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hmm, that´s quite some time to wait for a harvest. i suppose it depends on how long a year takes ingame, meaning how many ingame days a year is.

Exactly. I guessed it would be 30 days per season, with 4 seasons, or 120 days. Of course the maple trees could reset on the very first day of autumn, so if you happened to harvest them later than that they they would reset Sooner than 120 days. Again, that's if they opt for 30-day seasons (although I'm of the opinion that's about the right number of days to get used to a season, but not have it take too long in gameplay terms).

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Again, that's if they opt for 30-day seasons (although I'm of the opinion that's about the right number of days to get used to a season, but not have it take too long in gameplay terms).

30 days per season. hmm, sounds good to me. long enough that you can do a bunch of stuff, but not so long that you get bored of it.

I was thinking the maple trees would reset at the end of winter if the sap will be harvested during winter to offset the lack of honey. hmm

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