From Beyond: Ancient Echoes Update Coming Next Week!

[Parusoid]

16 hours ago, hoxi said:

There's a whole new system that allows transferring "payloads" of entities from shard to shard. It's used for one thing at the moment (that being the giant Whirlpool), but this opens up possibilities in the future, as well as for modding (like having a thing that directly transfers things from the forest to the caves, or viceversa, to some specific coordinates

Is this any different from what we currently had for example when interacting with cave entrances?
 

13 hours ago, hoxi said:

Now entities keep track of "stop reasons", and until all reasons are cleared, the brain won't be allowed to start (and when they are, they must also not be asleep on the engine and must not be in limbo).

That's very technical, could u give an example how this new system affects gameplay, what we can't / can do now as opposed to before?

[Milordo]

@hoxi One curious question. 

How much work do you think a rework/rivist of Ruins+Caves+LunarGrotto/LunarArchives generation would be? Would it be as heavy as the "tech heavy" stuff of this patch? Or less demanding?

[ZeRoboButler]

22 hours ago, Milordo said:

- What about GWD must needed final touch-ups?

what is a "GWD"?

[Swiyss]

45 minutes ago, ZeRoboButler said:

what is a "GWD"?

I think it's the great depths worm

[Mike23Ua]

4 hours ago, Milordo said:

@hoxi One curious question. 

How much work do you think a rework/rivist of Ruins+Caves+LunarGrotto/LunarArchives generation would be? Would it be as heavy as the "tech heavy" stuff of this patch? Or less demanding?

It would probably be a lot of work & require time they could spend doing other things..? I mean for a new freshly created game world sure it won’t be much of a problem, but that isn’t Klei’s style: they try to retrofit new content into peoples ancient (literal decade old) world save files. I can appreciate that they do try to do this, but at the same time trying to retrofit a completely redesigned ruins+caves+grotto etc into anyone’s existing game save would be an absolute nightmare. And would quite possibly do more damage to the players bases they built then 100 GDW’s ever could.

even something simple: such as for example adding new “moon lakes” to empty areas like those long pathways of nothing that can spawn Lunar Frogs, sure it’s not as destructive as boulders falling during cave earthquakes but it still adds a new threat that players did not have to account for to the bases they’ve already built up.

Kinda like how I had to move my base that had cute seashell turf AWAY from the shoreline in the Catcoon den biome when Klei added the Otters (those things are cute but pure evil..)

Redesigning map layout etc would be worse.

[Milordo]

6 hours ago, Ridley said:

Isn't this outside the scope of what the update was intended to be? I thought this was supposed to be the setup for the next big part of Charlie's story, not a cave and GWD rework.

Yes and no. More yes than no. 

It became about cave generation because they introduced the new biome and the whirlpool, modifying even more the game and touching very sensitive and important places of the game. Also Klei listened and touched, even if by a minimum, the GDW.

Frankly, on the GDW, sure I accept it delays on that and it is outside of the scope, but the generation thing? Nuh uh. 

10 Years. 10 frikking years. Adding the whirlpool and the new biome is just asking to make the problem even more bigger instead of fixing it now once and for all. The big elephant in the room is becaming even bigger. Do you remember your parents when they always told you "Don't go away and leave things unfinished. Finish your homework first or something" exactly that. If you get my drift. Again, I'll wait. It's still working progress with a lot of weeks/months right? But the generation is not out of scope.  

1 hour ago, astareus said:

I think it's the great depths worm

^^^^^

Edited September 12, 2025 by Milordo

[hoxi]

6 hours ago, Parusoid said:

Is this any different from what we currently had for example when interacting with cave entrances?

To my understanding, the player migration system is handled by the engine (unsure after taking a look how entities that follow the player between shards are handled), the shard transaction system uses standard RPCs like many other things that get synced between shards, but it works with a system to ensure things are properly received on the receiving shard, before removing them on the current shard.

 

6 hours ago, Parusoid said:

That's very technical, could u give an example how this new system affects gameplay, what we can't / can do now as opposed to before?

It's technical because as I said, it won't really mean anything for many people, as in, people that don't mod the game. It allows more easily implementing features that disable a brain without having to add specific checks in some places, and just overall making it more intuitive. It's also good for future-proofing and making it easier when adding mechanics like that, since now all you need to do is some simple calls like these:

-- disable and block brain from initializing for some unique reason
-- this will work even if applied prior to an entity even having a brain set
inst:StopBrain("some_custom_reason")

-- clear that unique reason
-- this will start the brain automatically if allowed
-- (if the entity currently has a brain set, has no other stop reasons, and isn't in limbo or asleep)
inst:RestartBrain("some_custom_reason")

Same goes for these:

-- set no brain for this entity
inst:SetBrain(nil)

-- set a brain, will also automatically start it if allowed
inst:SetBrain(brainfile)



-- no need to do bits like this anymore (as the new SetBrain will handle it)
inst:SetBrain(brainfile)

if inst.brain == nil and not inst:IsAsleep() then -- plus, IsAsleep here didn't properly cover cases during entity creation
	inst:RestartBrain()
end

In terms of actual gameplay, it might prevent some potential very specific edge cases from happening.

Some I can think of that were addressed by this though are the Nightmare and Scrappy Werepig, and a few other creatures maybe, which I think started their brains due to IsAsleep not working as intended on creation, but then the engine would set the sleep status anyway and disable their brains.

If there's any cases where brains remained active when entities were outside of awake range, it just wasted performance, they're not able to do much from brain commands alone when they can't really move due to physics being disabled.

 

5 hours ago, Milordo said:

How much work do you think a rework/rivist of Ruins+Caves+LunarGrotto/LunarArchives generation would be? Would it be as heavy as the "tech heavy" stuff of this patch? Or less demanding?

I can't really answer that honestly since I never really looked too much into world generation functionality and code, I'm aware of a few things, enough to mod in mushrooms and grass being able to spawn in from world gen on some turfs, but that's about it.

But also given that you had this to say, it's hard to tell if you're asking in good faith or not, in regards to Klei.

Saying that they didn't lift finger about world gen, while they added a new biome (which includes doing world gen work, not to mention the Boulderboughs having loot based on world gen data, which required going through world gen definitions, and that they intend to add retrofitting for the new biome), sounds very tone deaf.

[Milordo]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

It would probably be a lot of work & require time they could spend doing other things..? I mean for a new freshly created game world sure it won’t be much of a problem, but that isn’t Klei’s style: they try to retrofit new content into peoples ancient (literal decade old) world save files. I can appreciate that they do try to do this, but at the same time trying to retrofit a completely redesigned ruins+caves+grotto etc into anyone’s existing game save would be an absolute nightmare. And would quite possibly do more damage to the players bases they built then 100 GDW’s ever could.

Nobody is asking to retrofit their world with all the stuff perfectly Mike.

4 minutes ago, hoxi said:

But also given that you had this to say, it's hard to tell if you're asking in good faith or not, in regards to Klei.

Saying that they didn't lift finger about world gen, while they added a new biome (which includes doing world gen work, not to mention the Boulderboughs having loot based on world gen data, which required going through world gen definitions, and that they intend to add retrofitting for the new biome), sounds very tone deaf.

It is in baid faith your message and what I wrote it's true. They added a new biome and the new dungeon sure, but they didn't touched the existing generation as a whole. They only piled up on existing things. It's not an insult, nor an attack mine and I say it because I'm into base coding and expect generation stuff to be a long work (how long don't know, not that expert). Don't misjudge me.

[gaymime]

23 hours ago, hoxi said:

I feel like I need to point out a few things for people that think this beta is ending too soon.

First, these two bits from what they said in the first announcement.

 

For anyone that hasn't been diving into the code changes, as implied with the "tech heavy" bit, this update has a decent amount of things that might not seem that big from some of the patch notes, but they are:

• There's a whole new system that allows transferring "payloads" of entities from shard to shard. It's used for one thing at the moment (that being the giant Whirlpool), but this opens up possibilities in the future, as well as for modding (like having a thing that directly transfers things from the forest to the caves, or viceversa, to some specific coordinates).

please forgive me if i misunderstand but this feels like it might open the possibility of unique items like the eyebone and the atrium key being able to move between worlds instead of only being dropped??? if that is what i am actually hearing this could really change a few things

[hoxi]

3 minutes ago, gaymime said:

please forgive me if i misunderstand but this feels like it might open the possibility of unique items like the eyebone and the atrium key being able to move between worlds instead of only being dropped??? if that is what i am actually hearing this could really change a few things

This is being addressed in the beta, as there was a patch for it, but it might still be possible (unsure, haven't tested myself), but either way, it's not intended to move irreplaceable items and things from shard to shard.

I meant more that it'd be possible to transfer entities between shards more directly, either via new mechanics, or via modded features (as an example, think of like how you send an item through a wormhole and it arrives on the other end, but with a cave entrance).

Right now the system is intended for items specifically.

[gaymime]

4 minutes ago, hoxi said:

This is being addressed in the beta, as there was a patch for it, but it might still be possible (unsure, haven't tested myself), but either way, it's not intended to move irreplaceable items and things from shard to shard.

I meant more that it'd be possible to transfer entities between shards more directly, either via new mechanics, or via modded features (as an example, think of like how you send an item through a wormhole and it arrives on the other end, but with a cave entrance).

Right now the system is intended for items specifically.

"not intended" has never stopped modders and code-manipulators from trying anyway x''D i am just excited at the possibility of it being a more stable possibility than before though if the staff is already lookin into tightening it up then it might not be any more possible than before by the time things are stable. thankyou for helping me keep perspective though, i know a lot of people are asking you to bridge the gap between what klei is doing and what they understand so you taking the time is super appreciated<3

[Dragonboooorn]

On 9/12/2025 at 9:15 AM, SapoLover said:

Let them cook

Klei used to cook SS++ sandviches, now its grilled cheese sandvich without cheese and grill (bare bones update mentioned)

[Mike23Ua]

3 hours ago, Dragonboooorn said:

Klei used to cook SS++ sandviches, now its grilled cheese sandvich without cheese and grill (bare bones update mentioned)

A lot of game developers are felling discouraged when the legal systems of America are failing them when Nintendo now owns patent on many gameplay mechanics.

It’s quite worrisome actually, because when they finally file a patent for the Mario Kart racing formula: There goes 90% of all racing games.

I also don’t think for one second that it’s actually fair to make developers & game designers need to look up what’s already been patented and what has not.

Imagine if the Batman Arkham Combat formula were patented, there goes several Assassins Creed games, there goes Hand of Fate & Hand of Fate 2, Mad Max.. you get the idea.

The fact that developers can’t just make a good game or a cool content update anymore is what kills developer motivation & creativity.

[Uedo]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

A lot of game developers are felling discouraged when the legal systems of America are failing them when Nintendo now owns patent on many gameplay mechanics.

It’s quite worrisome actually, because when they finally file a patent for the Mario Kart racing formula: There goes 90% of all racing games.

I also don’t think for one second that it’s actually fair to make developers & game designers need to look up what’s already been patented and what has not.

Imagine if the Batman Arkham Combat formula were patented, there goes several Assassins Creed games, there goes Hand of Fate & Hand of Fate 2, Mad Max.. you get the idea.

The fact that developers can’t just make a good game or a cool content update anymore is what kills developer motivation & creativity.

Kinda - it's a US patent, so realitically you can just geo-restrict your releases. That sucks massively when it's a market as big as the US, however it doesn't HAVE to effect you if you're not operating out of the US.

I think the general consensus is that Nintendo should not have been awarded the patent and it should be void. Two bills are set to be discussed PERA and RESTORE Patent Rights Act of 2025 (S.708). So who knows.

[ZeRoboButler]

22 hours ago, astareus said:

I think it's the great depths worm

Oh I see... wait... wouldn't that be GDW? I think I didn't register what this could have been due to it being GWD instead lol. 

But back on the topic at hand, perhaps they are looking at the caves more, but I'm not sure I would expect them to change too much. The past has shown that when it comes to revisiting content like the ocean, that took some time, that said it was a pretty good improvement to certain mechanics and the way treasure is hunted and teleporting our boats. 

Their focus seems predominantly on finishing the shadow arc of from beyond, that would mean appropriate build up, a mechanic to engage with to start a battle of some sort, and a tough fight giving the player a boon of some kind that is hopefully worth the effort. They also are working on entirely new mechanics which in the development sphere of things, is going to take extra time due to planning, testing and practical application, not even accounting for the tons of player and item based interactions. 

I am still waiting for a fun set of skill trees to mess around with, but I can be patient, I just hope that some of the constructive feed back is taken into consideration.

(notice the word constructive there...)  

[Waywarbler]

6 hours ago, Dragonboooorn said:

Klei used to cook SS++ sandviches, now its grilled cheese sandvich without cheese and grill (bare bones update mentioned)

I guess if you ignore all of the under-the-hood changes that hoxi mentioned and solely focus on the immediately visible in-game content, then yes it seems like it's been a long wait for a relatively small update.

Maybe the next beta will come sooner, since this seems like "phase 1" of a bigger update.

[LordeMao]

On 9/11/2025 at 5:39 PM, -Variant said:

That was quick.

Sorry guys, I think it was because of us that the beta ended so quickly ;-; Nintendo, PlayStation, and Xbox console versions are all bugged. The Pearl isn't dropping anything, not even the Pearl, it's impossible to activate the rift and advance in the story 😕

[Edible Coal]

18 hours ago, LordeMao said:

Sorry guys, I think it was because of us that the beta ended so quickly ;-; Nintendo, PlayStation, and Xbox console versions are all bugged. The Pearl isn't dropping anything, not even the Pearl, it's impossible to activate the rift and advance in the story 😕

nah, they would make a patch if thats the case

[Lovens]

So today, two days before the current beta is supposed to go live, I loaded an existing world with caves enabled in it so I could finally test the new Fumarole biome. I revealed the entire map to see where it was added and there is no Fumarole biome in my caves as of now. However, a newly generated world has the Fumarole biome. Two new archive "islands" did spawn on the old map though, as well as on the new map. 

I remember that at the start of the current beta we were told the new stuff doesn't retrofit into the new worlds yet but will do so later. When is that "later"? On the day when the beta goes live? Can we get retrofitting of the new stuff a bit earlier in the beta next time so we at least have time to explore how it interacts with the old maps and find potential issues before it's too late? 

[Milordo]

4 hours ago, Lovens said:

So today, two days before the current beta is supposed to go live, I loaded an existing world with caves enabled in it so I could finally test the new Fumarole biome. I revealed the entire map to see where it was added and there is no Fumarole biome in my caves as of now. However, a newly generated world has the Fumarole biome. Two new archive "islands" did spawn on the old map though, as well as on the new map. 

I remember that at the start of the current beta we were told the new stuff doesn't retrofit into the new worlds yet but will do so later. When is that "later"? On the day when the beta goes live? Can we get retrofitting of the new stuff a bit earlier in the beta next time so we at least have time to explore how it interacts with the old maps and find potential issues before it's too late? 

And I add can we get a generation rework on ruins, new biome and now lunar grotto with the whirlpool, so it's finally fixed and we can test before potential issues as well?

Yes, I know I'm a broken clock. Don't care. This issue must not be postponed for another 10 years.

Edited September 16, 2025 by Milordo