Inimical Gestalt greatly frustrates players' motivation to defeat Scion

[Cassielu]

Let me be straightforward. Releasing this thing into the world is not a reward but a punishment.

A miniboss with 2000hp, 180 damage, requires you to concentrate and dodge attacks to kill, drop 1.2 Pure Brilliance/ day, has nothing to do with "resource farm" at all. Especially in a endgame phase within  another endgame phase.

If it is designed as a punishment, it should not be placed after the final boss to undermine people's motivation to complete this quest line - the cost on this line is already high, now even "completing it" become part of it. Please move it forward and make it part of the Lunar Rift which where you promised to "bring more world challenges".

If it wasn't designed as a punishment, then please change it and don't make it be one.

Edited June 14, 2025 by Cassielu

[Larael]

Just gonna say this, many wanted more treats, feeling the push for survival again with the world changing. Well there you have it (not you, I'm saying it as an example)

 

[Cassielu]

13 minutes ago, Larael said:

push for survival

That's not "push" when it encourages you not to do something more than to do something.

Edited June 14, 2025 by Cassielu

[Waywarbler]

I do think they could stand to have their health halved. If they're supposed to be a source of pure brilliance, I'm not sure if carving through 2000 health + planar protection + dealing with them teleporting every few hits is worth 1-2 pure brilliance.

[00petar00]

They shouldn't target player even when they take off the crown or other gear that makes them passive. Brightshades, acid rain, hail and inimical gestalts just give reasons against players starting out on a server that has progressed this far.

Edited June 14, 2025 by 00petar00

[Auth]

37 minutes ago, Larael said:

Just gonna say this, many wanted more treats, feeling the push for survival again with the world changing. Well there you have it (not you, I'm saying it as an example)

There's a difference between wanting more fairly compensated challenge VS getting kicked in the teeth and told "Oh, but I thought you LIKED things being difficult!"

 

Great efforts, especially one that demands such sacrifices, should be fairly rewarded. This isn't. For the most part, I personally do not think fighting the new boss is worth it, even remotely, and I'm pretty sure Klei didn't work and evidently CRUNCH this hard on this thing just for people to think that not engaging with the content is better than actually doing so.

[Larael]

24 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

That's not "push" when it encourages you not to do something more than to do something.

Amm your seeing it as you're in control with this new Gestalts and that's not the case.

They spawn after scion's dead anywhere where's lunacy. The specific case with the crown gives a false feeling of control.

And as always is a choice if you want to kill the new boss or not. Right now there isn't any incentive to do it more than yeah kill every boss and deal with the consequences of doing it.

1 minute ago, Auth said:

There's a difference between wanting more fairly compensated challenge VS getting kicked in the teeth and told "Oh, but I thought you LIKED things being difficult!"

My man that's really subjective. Like for me the scion fight is easier than warbot. There's not something like a fair challenge. Is meant to be difficult and punishing and even the rewards of doing so are more like "yep you made it, you beat this thing 5 times harder than it should be, congrats" 

And there's the other thing it's supposed to be a endgame scenario where you are already with a bunch of things (farms, healing, etc).

Dealing with a "new" creature that's a constant treat at the end of the game should be that hard, yeah is tedious and annoying but yeah.

[Maxil20]

9 minutes ago, Larael said:

Dealing with a "new" creature that's a constant treat at the end of the game should be that hard, yeah is tedious and annoying but yeah.

The last thing megabasers (the players who will keep on playing the game long term after the boss is dead in the first place) should face is a constant threat that harasses you every day to the point the viable strat is to not kill the boss. 

[Larael]

3 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

strat is to not kill the boss. 

At this point the obvious strat is that. But there's another kill the boss and don't activate the moonstorms so no lunacy every night. Don't put the 5 lunar seeds just 4 and done.

[Echsrick]

the whole moon rift is not rewarding in the slightest

[Megaerra]

You can use Wurt's Mudslinger to kill him without damage when he is neutral, although it seems like a loophole was used

[Maxil20]

16 minutes ago, Larael said:

At this point the obvious strat is that. But there's another kill the boss and don't activate the moonstorms so no lunacy every night. Don't put the 5 lunar seeds just 4 and done.

But that feels really silly. The upgraded crown is the main reward for the questline after everything you go through. Neutering 90% of the point of getting the crown just so you don’t deal with a mob harassing you is really bad design, especially when there’s very little else the boss drops to encourage an effect such as the gestalts constantly harassing you at all times.

6 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

the whole moon rift is not rewarding in the slightest

There is a decent amount of incentives to do the rift. Apart from the brightshade gear being solid equipment all around, the polar bearger bin is an unbelievable QOL item that works in practically every playstyle. Even the howlitzer/ice crystaleyezer are alright if you are creative with them.
 

[Larael]

15 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

But that feels really silly.

It is indeed but as I said before is a choice. Use the upgraded crown when is necessary and deal with the new Gestalts just that time or control their population everytime and be in constant danger.

I don't think is a bad design. For me killing the lunar side god or end boss and then nothing happens to the world would be a bad design, maybe the numbers should be checked making them more appealing to face.

[Cassielu]

Yesterday I uploaded my new video of introducing the content of this update. Today I found a comment saying that the gain from defeating this BOSS is completely negative received the second most likes in the comment section.

Seriously, I don't think that is healthy.

Edited June 15, 2025 by Cassielu

[lio516]

When I was watching making items at home, I was attacked for no reason and died. It was very baffling and frustrating

This monster that refreshes at will still has 2000 health points. If the player doesn't have armor, they will be killed instantly. Are you serious?

I really want to choke the developer by the neck and question him right now

Edited June 17, 2025 by lio516

[SilverSpoon]

I think it's a decent downside towards sanity always being fixed at 100%, but I'd like Luna Guy to give some kind of sign like prominent sound or display when he's hostile towards the player. 

Edited June 17, 2025 by SilverSpoon

[Cassielu]

3 hours ago, SilverSpoon said:

I think it's a decent downside toward sanity always being fixed at 100%

Actually I'm not very bothered by Enlightenment becoming fatal or how powerful or drop-less inimical gestalt is.

What I mainly mind is that it adds a permanent bad consequences as price for defeat Scion (permanently losing the safety Enlightenment).  On this quest line players have been pay lot of these permanent huge price.  Now that we finally complete it at least a certain extent, but have to pay more another price again?

Defeating the final boss should be a happy and fulfilling moment. But this thing players will start to doubt whether it is worth it for just few seconds - and for a considerable number of people, including me, the answer is NO. This is really a bad emotional arousal.

 

Today's update has reduced this bad consequences price, but it is still a bad consequences price and brings annoying emotional feedback. I still think the best way is not to let "the bad consequences of beating Scion" exist.

Edited June 17, 2025 by Cassielu

[xhyom]

I fail to understand the reason for it to exist, like conceptually, randomly after you beat the final boss a creature becomes your bodyguard and keeps circling you wherever you go, and that due to its unstable mood can kill you out of nowhere? What is that supposed to be? It being restricted to areas affected by the power of the moon is completely understandable, Alter is angry making changes, but you gaining an evil entity that chases you wherever you dare to equip your reward is very nonsensical.

[SilverSpoon]

7 hours ago, Cassielu said:

What I mainly mind is that it adds a permanent bad consequences as price for defeat Scion (permanently losing the safety Enlightenment).

18 minutes ago, xhyom said:

I fail to understand the reason for it to exist, like conceptually, randomly after you beat the final boss a creature becomes your bodyguard and keeps circling you wherever you go, and that due to its unstable mood can kill you out of nowhere?

My apologies. I’ve confirmed in game that Inimical Gestalts appear even without wearing the Jeweled Crown as long as you're in an enlightenment environment. I see… yeah, this is not good. This is really nuh-uh.

Even if this is intended as a “Survival” (which, personally, I don’t find enjoyable), there absolutely needs to be a system to prevent accidental attacks them.

Edited June 17, 2025 by SilverSpoon

[hoxi]

1 hour ago, SilverSpoon said:

My apologies. I’ve confirmed in game that Inimical Gestalts appear even without wearing the Jeweled Crown as long as you're in an enlightenment environment. I see… yeah, this is not good. This is really nuh-uh.

Even if this is intended as a “Survival” (which, personally, I don’t find enjoyable), there absolutely needs to be a system to prevent accidental attacks them.

The spawn cap is 1 in general and they spawn from the same mechanic that spawns Gestalts when enlightened.

Wearing the upgraded crown allows up to 4 in total, but they'll only spawn for (and track) players wearing it.

That said, yeah, the update added some nice improvements but, they're still in a very rough spot.. I need to update/make reports.

[Sofy Happy]

 I'd be fine with its HP being reduced to 500.

[Cassielu]

15 hours ago, Cassielu said:

doubt whether it is worth

Just clarify that I'm not saying "Get Jewel but Inimical Gestalt start spawn" is not worth me to "making efforts to defeat Scion".

I mean "Get Jewel" is not worth "Inimical Gestalt start spawn", which means that the act of defeating this boss itself is completely negative.

That's how serious it is.

Edited June 18, 2025 by Cassielu

[Draggofroot]

On 6/13/2025 at 8:32 PM, Giga Chet said:

Good. Let it be punishment. There shouldn't be shame if players opt to leave Wagstaff and Pearl alone.

If people value progression, let them progress and make problems for themselves. If people want to keep a relatively peaceful world, let them.

 

Amigara fault.

no I want to put Pearl in the middle of dfly arena and watch her suffer without any repercussions cuz im evil