Yes, we do need to nerf Wendy's beefalo.

[Gashzer]

2 minutes ago, Lardee said:

You don't know if it's an oversight or not. But we do know it is a special interaction in that no other character besides Warly has this.

Wolfgang isn't boring because he's simply a numbers buff. Wolfgang is boring because he is incentivized to play the game nearly identical to the way Wilson does.

Wendy's special interaction with Beefalo incentivizes her to approach both combat and beefalo taming differently than Wilson, Wolfgang and nearly every other character. Nearly every character out damages Beefalo making beefalo combat inferior. Beefalo combat is generally less safe against bosses and post-rift mobs making beefalo combat inferior. Therefore the typical approach to combat and beefalo is to tame a rider and fight on foot because that's what's where the incentives are.

Wendy's special interaction with Beefalo incentivizes her to approach combat and beefalo taming differently by making Beefalo combat superior (at least DPS-wise) to combat on foot. Instead of doing what every other character does: rider + fight on foot, there's a legitimate reason for her to tame an ornery and contend with the differences between beefalo and default melee. 

It has nothing to do with Wendy being powerful. It would be just as bad if Klei buffed Wendy's damage to match or even exceed what she can do with a Beefalo, because that would also remove all the incentives for Wendy to approach combat differently than Wilson/Wolfgang.

Yeah this is the problem.

Why are you making Wendy all about beefalos? That isn't her character design.

Do you really think any of what you say fits Wendy's character from a thematic point of view?

Her max potential should come from her skilltree and abigail not relying on taming an ornery.

Sidenote: a new beast tamer character related to boosting tamed beefalos and taming other creatures of the constant would make for a cool new character.

[SilverSpoon]

9 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Why are you making Wendy all about beefalos? That isn't her character design.

Do you really think any of what you say fits Wendy's character from a thematic point of view?

The same goes for Maxwell and Wes, and possibly Walter in future releases.

[Lardee]

18 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Yeah this is the problem.

Why are you making Wendy all about beefalos? That isn't her character design.

Do you really think any of what you say fits Wendy's character from a thematic point of view?

Her max potential should come from her skilltree and abigail not relying on taming an ornery.

Sidenote: a new beast tamer character related to boosting tamed beefalos and taming other creatures of the constant would make for a cool new character.

Wendy isn't "all about beefalos". Every character has an incentive to tame a beefalo. The only difference is that Wendy has an incentive to use them for combat.

I don't see how that violates Wendy's character from a thematic pv, nor do I understand why the only gameplay a character should have access to is one that is explicitly mentioned by their lore.

 

 

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Echsrick said:

alsol the one that SOULD do more damage with a beefalo sould be wigfrid, why else have her spesificaly have beefalo related skills? wendy does not have that so why sould she even be better then the character that has skills designed to use beefalos?

Because Klei did Wigfrid dirty with that skill tree..? 

my personal nerf to Wendy and beefalo (now that she can target and command Abigail to “haunt” something) would be to make the buff only apply to the Beefalo when Abigail has recently “haunted” it.

This would require you to manage and maintain Abigail + Beefalo more often, then just having that buff for Free.

[Grove]

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

Do you really think any of what you say fits Wendy's character from a thematic point of view?

Honestly, yea.

Wendy finding strength in another friend/creature, that she has to actively seek out a bond with. Fits really well. It's healthy both for her and Abby. She gains a friend that she can seek protection in, another bond aside from Abby. While Abby can rest when she's tired (at lvl 1 for example), and rest easily knowing that her sister is safe and doesn't need her protection.

Abby still plays a big role. Her vex is the whole reason Beef are good with Wendy. And she's really helpful in beef taming. Distracting enemies from attacking it till Wendy can feed and mount it for example. It also does contribute to Abby's kind of character arc. Originally she was jealous of chester, a creature that helped Wendy. But now she's helping Wendy protect another creature that helps her. And she's also a friend to the other survivors, outgrowing her jealous ways.

Unironically, I would prefer that Beef get the 1.4x vex modifier not apply to them AND Wendy's own innate character modifier is weakened futhur, as to nerf Wendy+Beef but still have beef as her best weapon pre rifts, rather than just remove the 1.4x vex modifier from beef, and have them outdamaged by the dark sword or smth

[DaDa_waw]

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

Its not a special interaction, its an oversight.

And how does it make Wendy more interesting? It's just a damage buff? There's no extra special interaction or new mechanic. The arguement of saying Wolfgang is boring because he's just simple number buffs also applies here.

If klei removes this then they don't have to feel guilty giving Wendy more powerful skills in her skilltree.

Dont you see it affects how klei is approaching designing her skilltree.

 

I am very disappointed with your double standard behavior. This discussion is meaningless because you only ignore all other similar situations and keep the part you want to deny because you want to deny it. And your so-called 'bad, uninteresting, low creativity' lacks any evidence. If a character's ability can create motivation to engage with unnecessary game content, then it can never be considered 'uncreative' because this ability fundamentally expands the character's choice. It cannot be considered as any form of 'limiting creativity' in any sense

Unless, as I mentioned earlier, you just want to deny something, there is no other reasonable reason besides that you don't want it to exist.

[JazzyGames]

It was not my intent to be rude in my original post, sorry if it came across that way. I figured since there were numerous posts on this topic it would be more effective to create a new post addressing the arguments.

[Gashzer]

1 hour ago, SilverSpoon said:

The same goes for Maxwell and Wes, and possibly Walter in future releases.

Wes is more efficient at using dark swords for basic mobs encounters and with the introduction of planar weapons he's pretty good without a beefalo tbh. He has a speed balloon so taming a beefalo for speed is kinda counterintuitive to his one useful perk.

Maxwell doesn't lose extra sanity from night armour/ dark swords so taming a beefalo isn't some sort of requirement to max him out as he's better at using high tier equipment over most other characters.

The fact most Walter mains (apart from me) tamed beefalos as Walter, is exactly the same problem i have with Wendy being optimum... it completely goes against the thematic design of the character. The one character with his own mount and the community rush to tame another mount instead with it being the "meta" way to play him?? Absolute madness!!

This is what klei should aim to fix for Walter with his skilltree and they have failed to make woby competitive with a beefalo thus far... hopefully whatever they are cooking fix this.

[Arepantera]

i think beefalos shouldn't get the benefit from the pure horror potion, but should still get the benefits from the vex
I legit think that if you were to delete or nerf the regular interaction wendy has, then a lot of people would stop playing her period. The result we would want from a skill tree is to have more people playing that character of feel happier playing that character, not the opposite.

The pure horror potion is the problem here
It's too easy to make pre-rift, and it's to easy to mass post rifts. It just shouldn't give that extra boost to beefs, or at least not to the player's beef.

 

2 hours ago, Lardee said:

You don't know if it's an oversight or not. But we do know it is a special interaction in that no other character besides Warly has this.

I mean, yeah... We're not devs nor can we read their minds so we can't be 100% sure, but this is a very easy and logical conclusion to make. 
There are 2 vexes, a 10% one for everyone and a 40% one for wendy only
wendy deals less damage but benefits from both vexes so she ends up doing a bit more damage than average
when a beefalo attacks, it doesn't inherit a character's damage bodifiers, because it's not them attacking, so the logical conclusion is that they would get the regular 10% boost, right?
but they get both vexes, the full 54%. So it's considered as Wendy attacking, so it should have her base 75% base damage modifier, right? Well, they don't
So it's not considered wendy attacking in terms of weakness but yes in when it comes to benefits

I know I'm repeating what a lot of people have said already, but I don't understand how one can be honest, see this and say that this is not a bug or an unintended behavior.

Another thing that I find somewhat weird is that, weeks ago, one popular argument against sisturn 3 is that it was so good that it created a "meta", an "objectively better way to play", "it was so good that now the other options don't exist".... But isn't this true for beefalos too?

Everytime I play Wendy, I instantly start taming a beefalo because I understand how much better it is for Wendy than fighting with regular weapons
Everytime I see a Wendy player that is above average in terms of skill level also does the same, goes for a beef asap.
And I'm pretty sure that most of you do to the same when/if you play with Wendy
Beefalos create a "right way" to play Wendy if we go by strongest = only viable way of thinking

Again, personally i don't think this kind of interaction should be deleted or nerfed. I find it fun, but I don't think its honest to pretend this isn't an oversight or a bug. I also don't think it's problematic as long as there is no pure horror potion involved, which is what needs to have its interaction with beefalos stopped.

[Lardee]

1 hour ago, arepana said:

I mean, yeah... We're not devs nor can we read their minds so we can't be 100% sure, but this is a very easy and logical conclusion to make. 
There are 2 vexes, a 10% one for everyone and a 40% one for wendy only
wendy deals less damage but benefits from both vexes so she ends up doing a bit more damage than average
when a beefalo attacks, it doesn't inherit a character's damage bodifiers, because it's not them attacking, so the logical conclusion is that they would get the regular 10% boost, right?
but they get both vexes, the full 54%. So it's considered as Wendy attacking, so it should have her base 75% base damage modifier, right? Well, they don't
So it's not considered wendy attacking in terms of weakness but yes in when it comes to benefits

I know I'm repeating what a lot of people have said already, but I don't understand how one can be honest, see this and say that this is not a bug or an unintended behavior.

The reason you can honestly argue it's not a bug or unintended behavior is because at the very least, Klei intentionally gave the Beefalo some player attributes while the player is riding them which is why they take half damage against most bosses. They also are granted the effects of some armor like Wormwood's bramble husk shooting out spikes every third hit and then there's characters like Warly who gives beefalo his electric damage when he eats volt goat jelly. 

Probably the biggest reason you can honestly argue it's not unintended is the fact that this has been known for years, yet Klei hasn't decided to do anything about it.

 

1 hour ago, arepana said:

Another thing that I find somewhat weird is that, weeks ago, one popular argument against sisturn 3 is that it was so good that it created a "meta", an "objectively better way to play", "it was so good that now the other options don't exist".... But isn't this true for beefalos too?

This was never the main argument about Blessed Sisturn 3. The main argument was that it removed Wendy's weakness which in turn made her play like a Wilson clone since, combined with extremely cheap Spectral Cure Alls, you didn't have to think about managing Abigail.

 

1 hour ago, arepana said:

Everytime I play Wendy, I instantly start taming a beefalo because I understand how much better it is for Wendy than fighting with regular weapons
Everytime I see a Wendy player that is above average in terms of skill level also does the same, goes for a beef asap.
And I'm pretty sure that most of you do to the same when/if you play with Wendy
Beefalos create a "right way" to play Wendy if we go by strongest = only viable way of thinking

You can apply this to literally any other character. There's always going to be a dominant strategy, removing Beefalo's doesn't change that. All it does is make Wendy's "strongest = only viable way of thinking" strategy the same as Wilson, Wolfgang, Willow etc which is rider beefalo + the strongest melee weapon.  This is why wendy's special interaction with Beefalo is so good: it incentivizes you to play her in a unique way.

 

[Arepantera]

29 minutes ago, Lardee said:

The reason you can honestly argue it's not a bug or unintended behavior is because at the very least, Klei intentionally gave the Beefalo some player attributes while the player is riding them which is why they take half damage against most bosses. They also are granted the effects of some armor like Wormwood's bramble husk shooting out spikes every third hit and then there's characters like Warly who gives beefalo his electric damage when he eats volt goat jelly. 

Yeah, the player is controlling them, it makes sense that they'd temporally get the player tag to not make them too squishy.  Yet they do not inherit the character's traits, because they're not the character. Emphasis in some effects and not all. Wormwood's armor spikes shoot every 3 attacks, but not when the beefs get attacked, because it's the beef the one receiving the hit, not woormwood. Warly's case is weird. But it's most likely because he's a bit of a weak character and beefalos can't eat the jelly itself, so to not make him worse, the effect is shared.

 

 

39 minutes ago, Lardee said:

Probably the biggest reason you can honestly argue it's not unintended is the fact that this has been known for years, yet Klei hasn't decided to do anything about it.

That's... Uh... Not a good argument at all, the previous ones were stronger than this one. This reminds me of those old times when people used to say that voidwalking was not a bug or intendend because it's been known for a while and "nothing has been done about it"
... And eventually it got patched.
You're basically saying that nothing is a bug unless it gets fixed.

 

 

41 minutes ago, Lardee said:

This was never the main argument about Blessed Sisturn 3.

You're either intentionally making a strawman argument or you are not paying attention.
I said "popular" arguments, not "main"
And it was indeed a popular argument.
Let's not pretend that we had tons of people having this back and forth of "If you don't like it, don't use it", then "It's not about liking it or not, it's about game design, the illusion of choice, meta, etc".

 

43 minutes ago, Lardee said:

You can apply this to literally any other character. There's always going to be a dominant strategy, removing Beefalo's doesn't change that. All it does is make Wendy's "strongest = only viable way of thinking" strategy the same as Wilson, Wolfgang, Willow etc which is rider beefalo + the strongest melee weapon.  This is why wendy's special interaction with Beefalo is so good: it incentivizes you to play her in a unique way.

Not really.
Whenever you fight on foot, there are tons of options to use when it comes to armor and weapons.
But when it comes to wendy, there is only one option, the best option. Beefalo.
Removing beefalos would add way more variety to Wendy's playstyle, everyone just ignores weapons and armors, they don't exist anymore. 
Nerfing the interaction would at least make it an interesting choice between fighting on foot or fighting on a beefalo, but right now it's not really a choice except for some very specific enemies.

[Lardee]

54 minutes ago, arepana said:

Yeah, the player is controlling them, it makes sense that they'd temporally get the player tag to not make them too squishy.  Yet they do not inherit the character's traits, because they're not the character. Emphasis in some effects and not all. Wormwood's armor spikes shoot every 3 attacks, but not when the beefs get attacked, because it's the beef the one receiving the hit, not woormwood. Warly's case is weird. But it's most likely because he's a bit of a weak character and beefalos can't eat the jelly itself, so to not make him worse, the effect is shared.

No, it doesn't make any logical sense that Beefalo becomes twice as durable just because a player is sitting on them.  It actually makes more sense that Beefalo benefit from Wendy's sisterly bond since Wendy is the one controlling it than Beefalo magically becoming 2x more durable. So you agree that there Beefalo benefitting from the powers of players riding them has and therefore can extend beyond the player tag.

 

54 minutes ago, arepana said:

That's... Uh... Not a good argument at all, the previous ones were stronger than this one. This reminds me of those old times when people used to say that voidwalking was not a bug or intendend because it's been known for a while and "nothing has been done about it"
... And eventually it got patched.
You're basically saying that nothing is a bug unless it gets fixed.

No, I'm saying that something not addressed for years is evidence that it's intended and not a bug. I'm glad you brought up voidwalking because it probably started off as a bug, but later clearly was intended by the developers as a way for players to consistently access the Atrium without having to place their hopes on tentacle rng. This was proven by the fact that after they removed voidwalking, they immediately removed the tentacle rng.

 

54 minutes ago, arepana said:

You're either intentionally making a strawman argument or you are not paying attention.
I said "popular" arguments, not "main"
And it was indeed a popular argument.
Let's not pretend that we had tons of people having this back and forth of "If you don't like it, don't use it", then "It's not about liking it or not, it's about game design, the illusion of choice, meta, etc".

You were directing your responses to me. You brought up an argument I never made, so I redirected to the argument that I did make and believe represents the main problem with Blessed Sisturn III. 

Doesn't matter if it's a popular argument. I didn't make it and don't agree with it. 

 

54 minutes ago, arepana said:

Not really.
Whenever you fight on foot, there are tons of options to use when it comes to armor and weapons.
But when it comes to wendy, there is only one option, the best option. Beefalo.
Removing beefalos would add way more variety to Wendy's playstyle, everyone just ignores weapons and armors, they don't exist anymore. 

This makes absolutely no sense.

If you believe that "Strongest = only option" then this applies to every character on foot. It doesn't matter if "there are tons of options to use when it comes to armor and weapons" because according to your logic, the strongest among those options is the only option.

So removing Beefalo wouldn't solve anything. It would just change Wendy's best option from something unique to the same as everyone else's.

54 minutes ago, arepana said:

Nerfing the interaction would at least make it an interesting choice between fighting on foot or fighting on a beefalo, but right now it's not really a choice except for some very specific enemies.

No it would be the exact opposite. The only reason people put up with the downsides of Beefalo combat and don't just tame the much faster and low maintenance rider beefalo is because Ornery's damage. It's a tradeoff.

If Wendy hits just as hard as an Ornery, then there's no incentive to make that tradeoff which is why every other character is incentivized to tame a rider and fight on foot.

[Steorra]

7 hours ago, Gashzer said:

And for Wendy it removes her combat downside meaning players can play Wendy like Wilson

You'd better go suggest for a nerfing of scale armor first since it completely remove the downside of fire for Wormwood. I believe you are honest and fair enough to keep same standard toward same issues right?

[Ruperstiltskin]

I don't really see the point in sharing our opinions if one side is never gonna try to reason sooo.

Edit: really trying to not be rude sorry

[Yifei_]

1 minute ago, Ruperstiltskin said:

Don't try to argue with Wendy players pals, if something has been demostrated this beta is that they won't ever listen no matter how logical you are being

This is an attack and smear campaign against a specific group of players. You are really amusing.

[Ruperstiltskin]

1 minute ago, Yifei_ said:

This is an attack and smear campaign against a specific group of players. You are really amusing.

I already edited before you commented sorry

[Thieta]

Character can't hit very hard and because of such can't utilize a ton of weapons, Their effects, Their effects with gear set bonuses, Wet/Lightning dmg bonus, Etc.
Effectively making how every other character in the game plays, Not viable for her due to a debilitating dmg debuff, She is weak after all.

Character gets a mount that every other character can get to off-set this weakness, Playing in a more unique way that not everyone does even those that play the character, Not much different than someone weak to fire using gear to get rid of that weakness. Some do it but majority don't bother to min-max like that.

Character utilizes it's unique summon, Dmg buff, And does a lot of prep-time to make summon stronger so she can do some good damage. More min-maxing and optional stuff that she can do, But again, Vast majority of players won't do this every fight.

wE nEeD tO nErF hEr BeeFALO

[Steorra]

29 minutes ago, Ruperstiltskin said:

I don't really see the point in sharing our opinions if one side is never gonna try to reason sooo.

Edit: really trying to not be rude sorry

The OP think that the 0.75 damage multiplier should be continuing when character riding a beefalo. You really think that this opinion is "has been reasoned"?

What we have currently are intentionally designed according to the codes. And you even could explain them by logic:

Vex 1.4 multiplier works for non Wendy entity which is same for Beefalo.

Vex 1.1 multiplier works for "damage source from Wendy" which is same for Wendy riding a beefalo.

Wendy 0.75 multiplier works for characters themselves when they on foot, which means it should mot work for a character riding a beefalo, and it is same for Wes, Wigfrid and Wolfgang. 

I have no idea what problem here if we consider both codes and logic.

And it's no change that if some of you think this is a bug you may just go bug tracker but not here. And you would receive a simple "this is intended design" reply - and this is the reason of why some of you refused to start this topic on bug tracker I guess. You all knew this was a simple intended design but not a bug lol.

12 minutes ago, Thieta said:

wE nEeD tO nErF hEr BeeFALO

I personally feel reversed for this sentence when comparing with your argument above. Is this a sarcasm?

[Thieta]

 

4 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I personally feel reversed for this sentence when comparing with your argument above. Is this a sarcasm?

Yeah, It's sarcasm.

Wurt can make a merm army, Winona can use catapults, Webber can use spider army for dmg and immortality, Etc.

I truly think people here are complaining on wendy beefalo dmg just to have something to complain and to get wendy nerfed in one way or another.

The jealousy of wendy getting so much attention for her skill tree is still there and people want her to be nerfed in some way to feel justified that wendy mains got "punished"

I don't even main wendy, I main wurt - I like her tho - This is all absurd and the above is the only reason that personally makes sense for me as to why people want to be so gungho on this topic - First it was getting rid of her skills, Getting her out of the beta, Now it's nerf beefalo cause wendy is strong on one - There's a pattern of jealousy and people wanting some kind of "Punishment" to happen to wendy.

[Steorra]

6 minutes ago, Thieta said:

The jealousy of wendy getting so much attention for her skill tree is still there and people want her to be nerfed in some way to feel justified that wendy mains got "punished"

Yes. I shared same feelings with you.

[Arepantera]

3 hours ago, Lardee said:

No, it doesn't make any logical sense that Beefalo becomes twice as durable just because a player is sitting on them.  It actually makes more sense that Beefalo benefit from Wendy's sisterly bond since Wendy is the one controlling it than Beefalo magically becoming 2x more durable. So you agree that there Beefalo benefitting from the powers of players riding them has and therefore can extend beyond the player tag.

It kinda makes sense from a game balance point of view. And even if we say that it doesn0t, it makes MUCH more sense than the beefalo getting the full benefit from the vex, which doesn't matter how you look at it, the more you think about that interaction, the more it looks like a bug. I don't get what you mean by that last thing, like, yeah, there are some character interactions that work positively with beefalo in a way that looks off, I recognize that they exist but that's it.

 

 

3 hours ago, Lardee said:

No, I'm saying that something not addressed for years is evidence that it's intended and not a bug. I'm glad you brought up voidwalking because it probably started off as a bug, but later clearly was intended by the developers as a way for players to consistently access the Atrium without having to place their hopes on tentacle rng. This was proven by the fact that after they removed voidwalking, they immediately removed the tentacle rng.

Saying "I'm saying that something not addressed for years is evidence that it's intended and not a bug" is quite literally "If it hasn't been fixed yet, it's not a bug" but with different words. And no, voidwalking wasn't intended. if it was intended it wouldn't have been removed in the first place, common sense proves the opposite. I'm sure that they didn't IMMEDIATELY remove the tentalce rng but rather did it in a different patch, that would mean it was unintended, they listened to criticism and then tried to alleviate the need that voiwalking was filling for the playerbase.

 

 

3 hours ago, Lardee said:

You were directing your responses to me. You brought up an argument I never made, so I redirected to the argument that I did make and believe represents the main problem with Blessed Sisturn III. 

Doesn't matter if it's a popular argument. I didn't make it and don't agree with it. 

I was making an observation about some people and you were either willingly misunderstanding what I was saying, aka creating a strawman or you just didn't understand it.

 

 

3 hours ago, Lardee said:

This makes absolutely no sense.

If you believe that "Strongest = only option" then this applies to every character on foot. It doesn't matter if "there are tons of options to use when it comes to armor and weapons" because according to your logic, the strongest among those options is the only option.

So removing Beefalo wouldn't solve anything. It would just change Wendy's best option from something unique to the same as everyone else's.

Again, not really.
On foot you have multiple weapons and armors to choose from, some outshining others in some circumstances. You might want to use a dark sword against most enemies, a glass cutter against shadows or fuel weaver, you might go for a hambat because you thint it's value outshines the damage, on foot, "strongest" is relative and can change depending on the circumstances. But when the strongest option is beefalo, there is no variety, just an oppresive meta build. So removing beefalo's interactions, even if you don't like and even if I don't like would solve some things

Also, beefalos are the exact opposite of unique. They're literally the most generic thing there is, they make everyone equal, except for some specific outliers. It would Wendy's best option from something generic with overtuned damaged numbers to actually crafting weapons, armors and overall engaging with the game.
 

3 hours ago, Lardee said:

No it would be the exact opposite. The only reason people put up with the downsides of Beefalo combat and don't just tame the much faster and low maintenance rider beefalo is because Ornery's damage. It's a tradeoff.

If Wendy hits just as hard as an Ornery, then there's no incentive to make that tradeoff which is why every other character is incentivized to tame a rider and fight on foot.

Not really either, most people I know tame ornery beefalos is because they think they're OP and statistically speaking they're the best. They have really good damage while losing just a bit of speed and needing to be fed every now and then, aka having to deal with a minor annoyance. 

If wendy hits just as hard as an Ornery there are still many incentives to have one. It's an infinite weapon, it regens hp passively, you don't get punished for abby's death while riding it, etc. Having wendy on foot being equal to a wendy on beefalo does in fact create more playstyle creativity and makes the game overall better. Now you can choose 

[Steorra]

32 minutes ago, arepana said:

Having wendy on foot being equal to a wendy on beefalo does in fact create more playstyle creativity and makes the game overall better. Now you can choose 

They are already equal. 

On foot is the best for post rift content 

Beefalo is for pre-rift 

[WenericMember]

My Stance:

1. Wendy's on Foot DPS is fine, exceeded by Wolfgang comfortably for the most part and requires a comparatively higher setup. I've always maintained that Wendy's AOE is still good due to its immense accessibility, the same point is true for wolfgang's DPS. Either Wendy is a bad character bc AOE is more common now (and needs a strong tree), or Wolfgang like DPS isn't a big deal because Wolf has immense accessibility over other survivors. You can't have it both ways.
2. Wendy's Beefalo DPS is possibly too high, and I wouldn't mind the vex efficiency being brought in line with what would be expected. However,  I would rather nothing happen to vex than a nerf to base Wendy's kit. 
3. There are A LOT of more important things than Cursed vex that still need to be changed, so this being the complete focus of the forums towards the end of beta is painful to me.

[Steorra]

52 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

There are A LOT of more important things than Cursed vex that still need to be changed, so this being the complete focus of the forums towards the end of beta is painful to me.

Most of the focus of the forum during this beta is emotions ngl, and what we have here is no exception - regarding envy and hatred I guess.

[Koomin]

4 hours ago, Steorra said:

Yes. I shared same feelings with you.

Lol I'm trying my best to discuss Wortox issues like I said, but instead there are 30 threads about Wendy damage with massive arguments.