I’m so tired of waiting

[Bluepugjr]

Congratulations to the wendy players on their update but it feels like I’ve been waiting forever for Walter’s tree to be finished

the slingshot stuff is cool but dawg it’s been 2 months going on 3 since the beta began and we’re still waiting on skills to be added.

this isn’t a shot against the devs because it was probably just bad timing with them going on vacation after the beta started.

but I’m just so tired man.

[Grove]

Wortox and Walter are suffering. And the whole Wendy discourse isn't helping.

[Echsrick]

i say it again and maybe in the future another time: it was not a good idea to give the most favourit character (wendy) and the most not favourit character (walter) an update on the same update....and wortox?....wortox i dont realy know he seems randomly forgotten about and sometimes not i realy cant tell

[Grove]

5 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

i say it again and maybe in the future another time: it was not a good idea to give the most favourit character (wendy) and the most not favourit character (walter) an update on the same update....and wortox?....wortox i dont realy know he seems randomly forgotten about and sometimes not i realy cant tell

Wendy should have gotten hers with like Webber or something.

Similar mechanics betweem them, synergy, and with a ton of Wendy's stuff being aesthetic, Webber's skill tree coming out with hers would have made sense as they're canonically friends and Klei could have added some cool aesthetic synergies between the two of them.

And more importantly both are very loved and a lot of players of one play the other so, the problem of characters being overshadowed wouldn't have been as bad. Would have still happened but not as bad

[WenericMember]

5 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Wendy should have gotten hers with like Webber or something.

Similar mechanics betweem them, synergy, and with a ton of Wendy's stuff being aesthetic, Webber's skill tree coming out with hers would have made sense as they're canonically friends and Klei could have added some cool aesthetic synergies between the two of them.

And more importantly both are very loved and a lot of players of one play the other so, the problem of characters being overshadowed wouldn't have been as bad. Would have still happened but not as bad

On one hand I kinda get it, on the other hand it's nice to see Wendy and Webber be split every now and again, and I think the biggest problem was Wendy's first impression.

[Chewabacca]

26 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

i say it again and maybe in the future another time: it was not a good idea to give the most favourit character (wendy) and the most not favourit character (walter) an update on the same update....and wortox?....wortox i dont realy know he seems randomly forgotten about and sometimes not i realy cant tell

Wortox I think got put in the unfortunate position of having a tree that that was deemed good but with room for improvement (I am not a Wortox main, though have tried out the tree, I'm just talking about what seems to be a common perception) early on, whereas Wendy's as we all know was the greatest of insults (/s) and Walter's was so unfinished that it literally came with a note saying "soon to come!" in his tree.

[Mysterious box]

6 minutes ago, Chewabacca said:

Wortox I think got put in the unfortunate position of having a tree that that was deemed good but with room for improvement (I am not a Wortox main, though have tried out the tree, I'm just talking about what seems to be a common perception) early on, whereas Wendy's as we all know was the greatest of insults (/s) and Walter's was so unfinished that it literally came with a note saying "soon to come!" in his tree.

It is kind of funny looking back remembering the lunar affinity, horror rounds, and the thulecite frame weren't even active for the first few weeks. But hey all the more reason to look forward to what he'll finally get next patch. I do feel bad for Wortox though as he's really the only one I didn't really play during this beta.

[Cassielu]

4 minutes ago, Chewabacca said:

Wortox I think got put in the unfortunate position of having a tree that that was deemed good but with room for improvement (I am not a Wortox main, though have tried out the tree, I'm just talking about what seems to be a common perception) early on, whereas Wendy's as we all know was the greatest of insults (/s) and Walter's was so unfinished that it literally came with a note saying "soon to come!" in his tree.

You made me realize how much I trust Wortox skilltree...

[PunkShark]

It sucks to wait. And its been a while. But Walter’s changes are also incredibly fundamental. Its downright an entire rework to his tree, with Woby, with new perks and likely an entire redesign of his tree. Most of Wendy’s were visuals and balance changes. Its coming, we just need to wait a little longer.

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, PunkShark said:

It sucks to wait. And its been a while. But Walter’s changes are also incredibly fundamental. Its downright an entire rework to his tree, with Woby, with new perks and likely an entire redesign of his tree. Most of Wendy’s were visuals and balance changes. Its coming, we just need to wait a little longer.

It'd definitely be nice if the change is huge but I think we're hoping for too much or maybe I'm just afraid of people crashing out if it just ends up being some new skills like I'm expecting. I'd love to be wrong though.

To be fair though it's not like the devs were doing nothing with Walter during the beta either between the firing speed tweaks, new grip, ammo tweaks, and quality of life frame updates so even if it's not as big as we're expecting it'll probably still be fine.

[Bluepugjr]

23 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

It'd definitely be nice if the change is huge but I think we're hoping for too much or maybe I'm just afraid of people crashing out if it just ends up being some new skills

Honestly I’m thinking it’s probably gonna be some simple perks with a vague scout theme and maybe some number changes with woby’s perks

and if it is I won’t be mad or anything, just disappointed. Such is the result of focusing on “potential” 

[Keigo]

Ya its a bit to much just release wortox and walter and leave wendy for last at this point.

[Koomin]

3 hours ago, Shining Galaxy said:

If Wendy's skill tree design had been revised even once to make it half as good as Wortox's, this update wouldn't have taken so long. However, what we see is Klei taking a month off, with no one working except for the artists.

To be honest at this point I think it's the opposite and Wendy's skill tree is much more refined and in-depth and thought out than Wortox's, who still has a number of skills that basically do literally nothing (sould decoy 2 for example?  this skill has no use at all).  Wortox's skill tree was pretty decent originally, with a number of minor things to fix.  Since all attention went to Wendy including most Wendy-only people declaring Wortox's tree "so good", the minor things wrong in Wortox's tree never got fixed.  It's still just pretty decent.

And Wendy's is clearly way better than Walter's, but that's not really saying much since his is half finished.

Wendy's definitely needed the attention starting out, but it's now easily the best of the 3.

[Echsrick]

2 hours ago, Koomin said:

To be honest at this point I think it's the opposite and Wendy's skill tree is much more refined and in-depth and thought out than Wortox's, who still has a number of skills that basically do literally nothing (sould decoy 2 for example?  this skill has no use at all).  Wortox's skill tree was pretty decent originally, with a number of minor things to fix.  Since all attention went to Wendy including most Wendy-only people declaring Wortox's tree "so good", the minor things wrong in Wortox's tree never got fixed.  It's still just pretty decent.

And Wendy's is clearly way better than Walter's, but that's not really saying much since his is half finished.

Wendy's definitely needed the attention starting out, but it's now easily the best of the 3.

i think klei realy sould now take only focus on wortox and walter, and put wendy into the finished state, because as is some people will never be happy no matter what happens with wendy, wortox sould not take too much just some minor fix ups and then a big focus on walter sould be done

[Y0sH]

9 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

i think klei realy sould now take only focus on wortox and walter, and put wendy into the finished state, because as is some people will never be happy no matter what happens with wendy, wortox sould not take too much just some minor fix ups and then a big focus on walter sould be done

Wortox's remaining tweaks could literally be implemented and play tested within a week's gap between updates and he'd be ready for release. What makes this more infuriating is that all Wortox posts echo the same issues so it seems almost criminal he had no update during the almost month break.

[gaymime]

7 hours ago, Shining Galaxy said:

If Wendy's skill tree design had been revised even once to make it half as good as Wortox's, this update wouldn't have taken so long. However, what we see is Klei taking a month off, with no one working except for the artists.

if wendy's tree was "as good" as wortox people would set fire to the whole forum and just let it burn to ashes in their anger for how little she got x___x at this point wendy barely has a place in the dst roster. she is just a hero-shooter character that has the skin of what used to be a survival character. people are complaining that she can only =mostly= decimate end-game bosses solo and complaining that her =assist= minion only has triple the health of a player-character instead of a full boss. the people still complaining about wendy are almost entirely people who are never ever going to be satisfied and are still doing the same song&dance about how "weak" she is that they were doing before her skilltree even existed.

 

i do see why they only released wendy this week though. send her out the door now so at least -some- semblance of normality can be had for wortox and walter when they get a turn

[Steorra]

10 minutes ago, gaymime said:

if wendy's tree was "as good" as wortox people would set fire to the whole forum and just let it burn to ashes in their anger for how little she got x___x at this point wendy barely has a place in the dst roster. she is just a hero-shooter character that has the skin of what used to be a survival character. people are complaining that she can only =mostly= decimate end-game bosses solo and complaining that her =assist= minion only has triple the health of a player-character instead of a full boss. the people still complaining about wendy are almost entirely people who are never ever going to be satisfied and are still doing the same song&dance about how "weak" she is that they were doing before her skilltree even existed.

 

i do see why they only released wendy this week though. send her out the door now so at least -some- semblance of normality can be had for wortox and walter when they get a turn

I personally hope we could have more critics who have enough game experience for the whole DST before they shouted some sarcasm out. If they admitted that they were lack of post-rift experience but they still look down at others especially in some particular balance discussions, it would be a bit weird isn't it?

[Chewabacca]

18 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I personally hope we could have more critics who have enough game experience for the whole DST before they shouted some sarcasm out. If they admitted that they were lack of post-rift experience but they still look down at others especially in some particular balance discussions, it would be a bit weird isn't it?

As one of those players (that is, never experienced rift content but I still care about balance): my issue is when tools that are supposedly to overcome post-rift challenges can be used in the early game. If you want help with the rifts, fine, but do it in ways that don't make the game before that too easy. In Walter's skill tree, for example, there are several skills whose crafting requirements can only be satisfied if at least one rift has been unlocked in the world.

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, Chewabacca said:

As one of those players (that is, never experienced rift content but I still care about balance): my issue is when tools that are supposedly to overcome post-rift challenges can be used in the early game. If you want help with the rifts, fine, but do it in ways that don't make the game before that too easy. In Walter's skill tree, for example, there are several skills whose crafting requirements can only be satisfied if at least one rift has been unlocked in the world.

Wendy is really strong post-rift too.

[Steorra]

10 minutes ago, Chewabacca said:

As one of those players (that is, never experienced rift content but I still care about balance): my issue is when tools that are supposedly to overcome post-rift challenges can be used in the early game. If you want help with the rifts, fine, but do it in ways that don't make the game before that too easy. In Walter's skill tree, for example, there are several skills whose crafting requirements can only be satisfied if at least one rift has been unlocked in the world.

Yes, I totally agree with your points. And that's the reason why I asked many time for nerfing Cursed Vex of pre-rift and buffing of post-rift.

The reply I posted here was intended to point out that someone here was lack of post-rift experience (they had admitted it in other threads) but keep their arrogance to look down at others. I personally think the behaviour like this is unhealthy and toxic.

9 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Wendy is really strong post-rift too.

This is still debatable for me.

Woodie, Wortox, Willow, Wolfgang are still no weaker than Wendy for post-rift, all of them have trees already, and no need to discuss anymore about Maxwell and Wurt.

Wickerbottom is good at particular aspects and you can't say she is weak than Wendy. They just have different things for showing their power.

Winona would be far more stronger than any characters in end game but yes she might be weak than Wendy when the rift just begins. But it's still hard to say "Winona is weaker than Wendy".

Walter has definitely easier way to dealt with post-rift enemies as a special character (also have potential to be the most broken one, but whatever it's his style).

Then who are still here beside those who have no tree? I agree that wormwood is weaker than Wendy, and Wigfrid might be debatable (she is just a different style from Wendy for similar effect imo).

 

Then, if most of characters who have trees were "strong", where's the balance concerns when we shout out that a particular character is "too strong" for an argument?

[gaymime]

2 hours ago, Chewabacca said:

As one of those players (that is, never experienced rift content but I still care about balance): my issue is when tools that are supposedly to overcome post-rift challenges can be used in the early game. If you want help with the rifts, fine, but do it in ways that don't make the game before that too easy. In Walter's skill tree, for example, there are several skills whose crafting requirements can only be satisfied if at least one rift has been unlocked in the world.

if i am correct wortox also has late-game skills that require late-game elements to use

[Mike23Ua]

The problem with Walter is that he’s a perk blend of soup who can’t make up his mind what direction his gameplay should lean into.. it’s like there’s everyone else: then there’s Walter.. the Mod Workshop character.

He doesn’t even claim ownership to being the “ranged” character that was Winona’s perk before it was his, and before Winona there was of course: Wheeler.

For me: to make Walter actually fun and interesting he needed more boyscout/ranger/Woby stuff.

like: I don’t know exactly what.. but going full on into slingshot skills was just.. idk. Bad?

Wortox on the other hand has a pretty shallow gimmick that honestly, lacks a ton of depth so there’s not an awful lot they can do with giving him fun cool & unique stuff without changing everything about him.

But Wendy is well TL:DR she’s in a mess.. and what I mean by that is: several of her skill tree perks require you to play the game on a specific difficulty setting or world behavior setting, and without access to those settings, she loses access to her skill tree perks. You’ll never get to use “vengeful spirit” in a world where players can’t become ghosts..

this wouldn’t be a problem at all if Klei would’ve spent that extra 3 months of beta delay to code it so that AI followers near to a Wendy, would *die* and temporarily become a ghost for the skill to have effect.

Shes the only character in the entire game who has these sort of skill tree hang ups.

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

The problem with Walter is that he’s a perk blend of soup who can’t make up his mind what direction his gameplay should lean into.. it’s like there’s everyone else: then there’s Walter.. the Mod Workshop character.

This has always been a baseless claim his design has been focused since day one people just didn't want to accept what his perks pointed to.

[gaymime]

7 minutes ago, Shining Galaxy said:

Using Wes, I can also "decimate end-game bosses solo." As for health, as I've said before, the player-character would not be foolish enough to not equip a log suit or a football helmet; therefore, the player's health should be multiplied by fivefold. Considering some bosses deal reduced damage to the player, this factor sometimes reaches tenfold. It is not only sad that you arrogantly accuse those who love Wendy but also that you lack appreciation for Wortox's excellent skill tree. Not knowing what is "good," how can you know what is hopelessly bad? Even if we only consider combat prowess and not the inherent quality of the tree, Wortox's skill tree is still top-tier - it can deal explosive damage, which is not a metaphor. But people like you would never research how to achieve such feats; instead, you point at videos of those who cleverly use Wortox and shout that his skill tree is OP.

 

go play wortox. if you are not a deceiver go play him. put down wendy who clearly gives you no joy and play the character you feel is best. prove yourself honest and live by your words.

[Bumber64]

10 hours ago, Shining Galaxy said:

For Wortox, capturing 20 killer bees and throwing them near the boss, using their souls can already directly kill the boss without any weapons, only requiring some souls to jump around the boss.

Right. About how long does it take you to kill a boss with 20 souls, would you estimate?