Skilltrees are mainly a vehicle for patchnotes

[loopuleasa]

I enjoy patch notes

People don't like skilltrees because it messes with the classic Dont Starve formula, but Together is a modern live service game, and for people to play a long time (I am closing in on 4000 hours) you kinda need a vehicle for patch notes.

Skill trees are quite an innovative way to deliver content into this game.

I would rather have that than just bloating the game with more characters or random content not related to one of the best features of Dont Starve: its cast of characters.

You may not like skilltrees, but they're necessary for longevity.

I played so many games that "ran out of ideas" of what to add, and I stopped playing them (even though I enjoyed playing them when I did)

We also got good quality skilltrees along the way (like willow, woodie, winona)

[Swiyss]

Best skill tree imo is wormwood. Bro I can't even start on how insanely good that skill tree was for the character. 

He can put enemies to sleep like a panflute, but with moonshrooms influence, his own nature take on it. He can light an area with lightbulbs like a lantern, but its his own nature take of it. He can do slightly more damage with the brightshade gear, in his own unique way. He has a whole side dedicated for megabasers, making him one of the best swap out characters for fixing the scarcity issue. AND he's got a whole bunch of mixed QoL skills that all fit his style of lunar nature alien.

Wormwood's skill tree is an example of what every other skill tree should've looked like. He can play the game just as we do, but he's got his own way of doing it that complements his unique personality.

I WISH Willow had more fire perks instead of cold lunar fire and random black fire. I wish Wigfrid had more skills that weren't related to fighting only.

[00petar00]

I think that you are just lacking the creativity and you speaking about other games that ran out of ideas. This seems like an excuse unless it is a very big sandbox game that you can play for thousands of hours but still why can others do it but not some specific game developers?

Klei has so many talented developers because they made DS, DST, Oxygen not included and other games I have not played at all but everything I have played that was made by klei has had so much creativity and longevity.

I don't like skill trees even though I think that they are very helpful to character mains because most people including me only play 1-2 characters so it feels like updates don't matter to us unless we can use these abilities in some way with character swapping.

There's so much that klei can do, how long has it been since we have seen any big biome changes? Why are caves so empty but has massive biomes that players don't ever want to visit or do anything with? I think that klei could focus on caves for years and years. A lot of people liked hamlet so why can't we have some way of trading with pigs/shops maybe even houses added? We didn't get shipwrecked port but we got ocean because of it but nothing has been done in regards to hamlet. DST would change a lot If we had ingame economy with pig shops.

Klei could literally have next decade of content for DST without even having to dip into creativity too deep. So many people are saying that DST won't even get updates in a few years which I doubt but they are speaking on the basis that they don't see much content added into the game or believe that DST 2 would be better with new engine which I don't really think DST needs.

[BezKa]

I disagree. Aside from the fact DST has literally an ocean of updates available that don't include character changes at all, I have a much bigger problem with what you said.

Good games don't need to get constant updates to be worth playing. I believe DS and DST count as those games. There is a very obvious increase in players when an update releases, but when there's nothing new happening people are still playing. There are still people playing DS, before the 10 year anniv QoL and after. Countless people do voluntary work to bring back old forgotten games back on emulators, because the consoles are impossible to get. And those sure as heck aren't getting an update any time soon.

Updates are needed for Klei to make money. They need those skin sales. Sure, I trusted them to make the updates something better than skill trees, but that's what they decided on so eh. Before skill trees they had no trouble making other updates, and even now it's not like they're running out of ideas of things to add aside from skill trees.

I am worried about the whole "art is when you know when to stop" thing. Since money is important. But I hope Klei have thought about it, and what will be a good moment to cut the updates. Hopefully we're not there yet, but someday we necessarily will be, and my only wish it's not when the studio is forced to be closed, but a conscious decision about the state of the game.

 

Sorry that this is such a ramble, I'm half asleep.

[Edible Coal]

49 minutes ago, BezKa said:

 

I am worried about the whole "art is when you know when to stop" thing. Since money is important. But I hope Klei have thought about it, and what will be a good moment to cut the updates. Hopefully we're not there yet, but someday we necessarily will be, and my only wish it's not when the studio is forced to be closed, but a conscious decision about the state of the game.

 

doubt klei is the sort of company that would be suddenly closed

[BezKa]

18 minutes ago, Edible Coal said:

doubt klei is the sort of company that would be suddenly closed

That's my hope, but honestly you never know.

[Szczuku]

13 hours ago, loopuleasa said:

I played so many games that "ran out of ideas" of what to add, and I stopped playing them (even though I enjoyed playing them when I did)

Funnily enough that's exactly what dst has been feeling like, for the last two years at least. Even more funnily enough that is despite the fact that there are many things that could be added to dst that don't feel like the devs are running out of ideas. Unfortunatelly those things include new mechanics, updating old mechanics and biomes, stuff like that, not new bosses, enemies, weapons, food sources, stuff that makes existing things easier or character changes.

[Mysterious box]

4 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Funnily enough that's exactly what dst has been feeling like, for the last two years at least. Even more funnily enough that is despite the fact that there are many things that could be added to dst that don't feel like the devs are running out of ideas. Unfortunatelly those things include new mechanics, updating old mechanics and biomes, stuff like that, not new bosses, enemies, weapons, food sources, stuff that makes existing things easier or character changes.

Personally I feel like a lot of what they could add probably won't land as well due to the current balancing of the game. Most people will only care about a new biome if it will provide something more valuable than existing resources, old mechanics could be updated but how much people will care will greatly depend on if most people feel like engaging with it, new mechanics could be introduced but those almost never go over well.

Basically i feel like the game is fighting with itself in it's current design content needs to be considered worthwhile and fast to accomplish for most to engage and it being worthwhile often depends on it being better than existing player abilities and items.

[Evelo]

17 hours ago, loopuleasa said:

We also got good quality skilltrees along the way (like willow, woodie, winona)

Willow, good quality? We agree on a lot of things but Willow's skill tree is not one of them. (Granted neither is Woodie or Winona but those are much better than Willow's)

[Szczuku]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Personally I feel like a lot of what they could add probably won't land as well due to the current balancing of the game. Most people will only care about a new biome if it will provide something more valuable than existing resources, old mechanics could be updated but how much people will care will greatly depend on if most people feel like engaging with it, new mechanics could be introduced but those almost never go over well.

Isn't that what's already happening? New boss gets added -> boss drops some obscure item -> many people don't care about the item -> rinse and repeat

[Chewabacca]

Agreed 100% with BezKa. A game does not have to endlessly churn out new content to be a good game or to have a lot of replay value. Adding things for the sake of adding things risks compromising the heart of the game. Nor does a game have to be the sort that you rack up an >1k hour count in to be successful long-term, as long as there's enough of a stream of new people. Hell, people still pick up TF2, and that game hasn't gotten an update in a million years.

I'm not saying that DST has lost its heart (if so I would only be playing DS), or that all new additions are bad, but the philosophy described by this post--that you need new updates, no matter what, to keep people invested in a game--is one that I disagree with.

[Jakepeng99]

21 hours ago, loopuleasa said:

Skill trees are quite an innovative way to deliver content into this game.

Not really, its forcing a bunch of content on many characters so unnessisarly for some. I dont see how this is innovative.

Also, putting more focus on characters takes away from all the tools we have in the game already.

9 hours ago, BezKa said:

Sure, I trusted them to make the updates something better than skill trees, but that's what they decided on so eh. Before skill trees they had no trouble making other updates, and even now it's not like they're running out of ideas of things to add aside from skill trees.

Bosses and character stuff are probably the easiest things to add since you dont need to bother with the world or anything that much.

[Mysterious box]

5 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Isn't that what's already happening? New boss gets added -> boss drops some obscure item -> many people don't care about the item -> rinse and repeat

Yep this is why most people are mainly hyped for character updates above all else but character updates have completely broken the balance of the gameplay loop realistically they need to rebalance the game but that would take a long time.

 

On 1/13/2025 at 7:00 PM, loopuleasa said:

I enjoy patch notes

People don't like skilltrees because it messes with the classic Dont Starve formula, but Together is a modern live service game, and for people to play a long time (I am closing in on 4000 hours) you kinda need a vehicle for patch notes.

Skill trees are quite an innovative way to deliver content into this game.

I would rather have that than just bloating the game with more characters or random content not related to one of the best features of Dont Starve: its cast of characters.

You may not like skilltrees, but they're necessary for longevity.

I played so many games that "ran out of ideas" of what to add, and I stopped playing them (even though I enjoyed playing them when I did)

We also got good quality skilltrees along the way (like willow, woodie, winona)

I will say this one issue I do take with skill trees is that it feels like they're beginning to make the cast blend together with mostly an illusion of being unique hidden behind different animations or slight differences.

[Falkenpelz]

21 hours ago, BezKa said:

Good games don't need to get constant updates to be worth playing.

This. Games aren't there to entertain you endlessly. People need to learn to accept the limits of the medium. Good games end. DST is replayable as heck, but after 2000+ hours, you might reach your limit of entertainment.

My unpopular opinion is, the story arc should have ended already. I still hope we get an epic finale, but I don't want the excitement to slowly bleed out over years more of content.

[NPCMaxwell]

On 1/14/2025 at 1:00 AM, loopuleasa said:

I enjoy patch notes

People don't like skilltrees because it messes with the classic Dont Starve formula, but Together is a modern live service game, and for people to play a long time (I am closing in on 4000 hours) you kinda need a vehicle for patch notes.

Skill trees are quite an innovative way to deliver content into this game.

I would rather have that than just bloating the game with more characters or random content not related to one of the best features of Dont Starve: its cast of characters.

You may not like skilltrees, but they're necessary for longevity.

I played so many games that "ran out of ideas" of what to add, and I stopped playing them (even though I enjoyed playing them when I did)

We also got good quality skilltrees along the way (like willow, woodie, winona)

That‘s actually the only reason why I don‘t /mind/ the updates that much because they gladly still focus on DS stuff and the characters, not those weird DLC themes you see in other games

[loopuleasa]

1 hour ago, NPCMaxwell said:

That‘s actually the only reason why I don‘t /mind/ the updates that much because they gladly still focus on DS stuff and the characters, not those weird DLC themes you see in other games

Not to mention: They're free updates

[Edible Coal]

2 hours ago, loopuleasa said:

Not to mention: They're free updates

they are paid by skins

[salty_cookie]

Just now, Edible Coal said:

they are paid by skins

That you are not forced to buy 

[loopuleasa]

5 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

they are paid by skins

they are free updates

there is no barrier to entry

the game is paid by skins, not the update