Blessed Sisturn III is Way too Strong

[Nikki Darks]

7 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

People... don't? Wolfgangs pretty commonly seen as one of the worst designed characters.

Funny thing is, he's considered more on the "average" side of balance due to the avalanche of powercreep.

[Well-met]

2 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I am not talking about the videos. I said "the practical reality of the situation". That means actual gameplay. AoE does matter there.

In fights without AoE, you can very easily make Abigail almost never take damage just by taking the aggro yourself. In fights with AoE, Abigail (without this perk) either dies periodically or has to be periodically unsummoned so that you can let her heal up with a Cure-All before bringing her back out for a disappointingly short amount of time again. You'd know this if you played Wendy.

fun fact, this mostly comes from a bug since launch to how AoE works

normally abi wouldn't get hit if you tank for her correctly.

[DegenerateFurry]

1 minute ago, Well-met said:

fun fact, this mostly comes from a bug since launch to how AoE works

normally abi wouldn't get hit if you tank for her correctly.

What's the intent in the hypothetical version of reality where this bug doesn't exist, then? That if Bearger does its slam attack while aggro'd on me, Abigail wouldn't get hit by it? 

[Mysterious box]

43 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

It coming into effect post-rift would make it unusable for most of a playthrough, though, which isn't really any better than just getting rid of the perk. 

The perk is meant to help Wendy combat post rift content not pre rift as it stands it trivializes the early game.

43 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I keep bringing up Wolfgang because if we actually look at the practical reality of the situation and ignore all the flavor about Wendy being a kid with a ghost sister and Wolfgang being a strongman - just look at the raw numbers in their pure form - Wolfgang's doubled damage for free still surpasses Abigail with an equal amount of prep time. 

Baseline (and I'll be charitable and assume three days have passed so Abby has 600 HP), Wolfgang is stronger outright and does more DPS. Abigail dies against any boss that has AoE before its health is even down to half. 

Early-to-mid-game, Wolfgang is still stronger outright and still does more DPS, but if Wendy's spent a lot of time farming Cure-Alls and can consistently apply them while also fighting herself and perhaps using Shadow Abigail's perk, the player tag now allows her to actually use Abigail against bosses that do AoE damage for more than a few seconds at a time. That makes them closer to equal.

Post-rifts/with ideal setup, Wolfgang vastly surpasses Wendy's absolute highest potential and it's not gonna be close, even with Shadow Abigail being as strong as she is. 

Because that's his role just as without any prep at all Wendy surpasses Wolfgang's horde clearing ability, in some cases without even needing to contribute to the fight. This isn't even a reasonable comparsion it's like saying base Wendy needs nerfed because she starts with more damage while Wickerbottom doesn't. Wolfgang has to maintain his mightyness to make use of his boosted damage and he doesn't really offer much outside of that. Compare that to Wendy she spawns in with a aoe killing machine and after putting in a small amount of  effort she deals around his damage range with a bunch of other powers on top of that.

[WenericMember]

2 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

Are you misunderstanding, by chance?

Probably, are you proposing a global cure all nerf?

[aidankocherhans]

11 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

How would you feel about Spectral Cure-All being half as effective?

That's what I and some others have suggested. The damage resistance itself ist necessarily too much, but how it interacts with her unaltered healing items is an issue

[aidankocherhans]

11 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

That just makes this skill mandatory

They mean half as effective while the player tag is in effect

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

3分钟前，aidankocherhans说：

这就是我和其他一些人的建议。抗伤害能力本身不一定太大，但它如何与她未改变的治疗物品相互作用是一个问题

This is the only way to treat Abi. Do you still want to weaken it? Abby has no way to survive in any boss battle. He needs to improve his survival ability. Don't bully Wendy and stop your behavior.

I hope that some administrators can rectify the atmosphere of the forum. Too many people use the excuse of "balance" to create imbalance behind their backs.

[aidankocherhans]

1 minute ago, zzzzzzzzzzz said:

This is the only way to treat Abi. Do you still want to weaken it? Abby has no way to survive in any boss battle. He needs to improve his survival ability. Don't bully Wendy and stop your behavior.

Please stop trying to shut down all discussion that you don't personally agree with. I'm not even suggesting removing the damage resist, just fixing an issue with it.

If healing on Abigail with this buff was halved, you'd restore an equivalent amount of health compared to the damage you can take, but you also wouldn't be able to outpace boss damage with healing items

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

2分钟前，aidankocherhans说：

请停止试图关闭所有你个人不同意的讨论。我甚至没有建议移除损坏电阻，只是修复了它的问题。

You should think carefully about whether your advice is really useful.

[aidankocherhans]

2 minutes ago, zzzzzzzzzzz said:

You should think carefully about whether your advice is really useful.

It doesn't matter if my advice is useful, I'm allowed to share my thoughts. Your post was just trying to silence other people, that's not how the forums should operate. These aren't your forums, they're everyone's forums

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

刚才，aidankocherhans说：

我的建议是否有用并不重要，我可以分享我的想法。你的帖子只是想让其他人闭嘴，这不是论坛应该运作的方式。这些不是你的论坛，它们是每个人的论坛

The purpose is to ensure Abi's survival, and now you put him in danger, so what's the point of updating this???

 

[hoxi]

Got a notification and saw this so I guess I'll explain it a little bit.

50 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

What's the intent in the hypothetical version of reality where this bug doesn't exist, then? That if Bearger does its slam attack while aggro'd on me, Abigail wouldn't get hit by it? 

Bearger is unaffected by the bug as far as I'm aware, it's all ground pounds or swipes, the latter which use an arc completely separately from this. The bug affects generic "area hit" attacks that are simply just a circle around an entity, and specifically only when the area hit goes off when doing a standard attack.

There aren't that many entities that have the issue, but Fuelweaver is one, and he happens to be a very important boss fight. His skull attack has a very small aoe, and has way more range to hit whoever he's targeting. The bone snare and bone circle area hits are executed externally, not through a standard attack, so those work as expected.

The bug causes the aoe to originate from the target, if said target did get hit by the attack. This completely displaces it in an unintuitive way and can basically extend the range of an area hit beyond its usual range, or even the maximum hit range of the creature.

In regards to Wendy and Abigail against Fuelweaver, as an example, it means that if you're gonna tank the skull attacks, Abigail needs to be away from you, not from Fuelweaver. Unless she's being directly targeted by him, in which she needs to get away from him even farther than usual. With the bug fixed, you'd want to have her away from Fuelweaver for all attacks, which is what you'd expect to happen consistently.

It's a very specific bug that causes very unintuitive behavior, and I was really hoping it'd get addressed, since they went through some area hit code for one of the updates for this beta.

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

Abi's "player tab" allows players to choose whether to enable it or not. If you don't like it, you don't need it.

[Evelo]

4 hours ago, Lardee said:

Instead of removing weaknesses, skill trees should

I agree. However it seems a large portion of the vocal community disagrees, even if they say otherwise (which often is contradictory to other comments made).

[Catapult 2.0]

No, it's a very reasonable skill that doesn't need to be weakened in any way.

不，这是一个很合理的技能，不需要任何削弱。

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

刚才，Natsuki Bamboo说：

不，这是一项非常合理的技能，不需要以任何方式削弱。

不，这是一个很合理的技能，不需要任何削弱。

And this is conditionally opened. If some players don't like it, they can not use it. There is no need to influence the rest of the players according to the ideas of some players.

使用它是有条件的，你不喜欢可以不用

[Mike23Ua]

16 minutes ago, zzzzzzzzzzz said:

And this is conditionally opened. If some players don't like it, they can not use it. There is no need to influence the rest of the players according to the ideas of some players.

使用它是有条件的，你不喜欢可以不用

That’s not the way the game works… or at least it SHOULDN’T be.

Weirdly Popular completely unofficial gameplay content for overseas mods for “God Tier” Workshop Modded characters are something I can easily ignore never installing or using.

But not using a characters ability that’s officially added into the game just to “handicap” myself is ignorant. 

Sadly I feel like this franchise has abandoned its RogueLite roots in favor of extremely strong op characters that steamroll through the games content.

[ColdHeaven]

11 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

That’s not the way the game works… or at least it SHOULDN’T be.

Weirdly Popular completely unofficial gameplay content for overseas mods for “God Tier” Workshop Modded characters are something I can easily ignore never installing or using.

But not using a characters ability that’s officially added into the game just to “handicap” myself is ignorant. 

Sadly I feel like this franchise has abandoned its RogueLite roots in favor of extremely strong op characters that steamroll through the games content.

You can return to the game's root. Uncompromising is a good mod, it is now more of a rebalance mod than a difficulty mod, it does add a few strong stuff into the game like the widow spider boss that has extremely good loots, and also buff various magic items. I'm sure you've played it before but the mod has really changed from old times. I now cannot play dst without it.

 

The um developers are willing to rework wendy's skill tree( they have done very good work with wx-78 and wolfgang imo), but they need a voice from someone who know a lot about wendy, otherwise they won't touch her much, i think you're a fitting player for that. If you are willing, here is the invite

 

https://discord.gg/uncompromising-mode-623649948130344960

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

13分钟前，Mike23Ua说：

这不是游戏的运作方式......或者至少不应该这样。

奇怪的是，“上帝层”工作室的海外模组的完全非官方游戏内容，模组角色是我很容易忽略的东西，从不安装或使用。

但不使用正式添加到游戏中的角色能力只是为了“让自己获得”是无知的。

可悲的是，我觉得这个特许经营权已经放弃了RogueLite的根源，转而代之的是极其强大的op角色，这些角色在游戏内容中滚动。

Maybe there is something wrong with the translation.

I mean, if you don't like the effect of putting moon flowers in the urn, you can choose to put other flowers in it.

[WenericMember]

Im just fairly hopeful the potion interaction is an oversight, considering they specifically blocked spectral cureall from the effects of strong brew.

13 minutes ago, zzzzzzzzzzz said:

Maybe there is something wrong with the translation.

I mean, if you don't like the effect of putting moon flowers in the urn, you can choose to put other flowers in it.

Debatably translation isnt working. Did you read what lardee showed about dominant strategy?. 

1 hour ago, hoxi said:

Got a notification and saw this so I guess I'll explain it a little bit.

Bearger is unaffected by the bug as far as I'm aware, it's all ground pounds or swipes, the latter which use an arc completely separately from this. The bug affects generic "area hit" attacks that are simply just a circle around an entity, and specifically only when the area hit goes off when doing a standard attack.

There aren't that many entities that have the issue, but Fuelweaver is one, and he happens to be a very important boss fight. His skull attack has a very small aoe, and has way more range to hit whoever he's targeting. The bone snare and bone circle area hits are executed externally, not through a standard attack, so those work as expected.

The bug causes the aoe to originate from the target, if said target did get hit by the attack. This completely displaces it in an unintuitive way and can basically extend the range of an area hit beyond its usual range, or even the maximum hit range of the creature.

In regards to Wendy and Abigail against Fuelweaver, as an example, it means that if you're gonna tank the skull attacks, Abigail needs to be away from you, not from Fuelweaver. Unless she's being directly targeted by him, in which she needs to get away from him even farther than usual. With the bug fixed, you'd want to have her away from Fuelweaver for all attacks, which is what you'd expect to happen consistently.

It's a very specific bug that causes very unintuitive behavior, and I was really hoping it'd get addressed, since they went through some area hit code for one of the updates for this beta.

Thats such a weird thing. 

[NINA1917]

4 hours ago, aidankocherhans said:

That's what I and some others have suggested. The damage resistance itself ist necessarily too much, but how it interacts with her unaltered healing items is an issue

Just add cooling to powerful potions.Or using the potion requires Wendy to consume spiritual power (san) to guide it.

[Debruh]

2 hours ago, NINA1917 said:

Just add cooling to powerful potions.Or using the potion requires Wendy to consume spiritual power (san) to guide it.

Please tell me that's only when this skill is picked, cause otherwise, nerfing the base kit to make way for s skill to wild.

[Steorra]

13 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Please tell me that's only when this skill is picked, cause otherwise, nerfing the base kit to make way for s skill to wild.

could get your logic and I do agree with you, but in other words the change they mentioned would perfectly solve another problem - "spamming elixirs is boring and may cause an OP result? now you can't do it". Then I started to love the idea due to this reason.

[NINA1917]

14 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Please tell me that's only when this skill is picked, cause otherwise, nerfing the base kit to make way for s skill to wild.

I did ignore your question when the idea first came to my mind, but someone soon told me this.

I totally agree with you that this change only applies to skill trees.
Different powers in Abigail's body will conflict. When she gets the player tag - through the power of the moon, the soul will be close to the human being. The power of the moon will conflict with the power of the herbs and the constitution of the player, which will cause the soul originally given to The effect of the potion used changes.