Blessed Sisturn III is Way too Strong

[Lardee]

10 minutes ago, Xplan said:

Too be fair, if this is how Shadow Abi finally work.

I really wish to play it instead of Gestalt Abi.

Its dmg worth the price of learning how to handle different bosses.

This makes no sense considering you don't want to learn Shadow Abby as she is right now.

11 minutes ago, 2390508611 said:

 

How about not only slightly more damage,continuously increase her damage until it is fair?

To be honest, this is more attractive than an Abigail with average survival ability and no top-notch attack ability like before. If some players have the ability to protect their sister well, it is obviously more difficult than the potato man's exercise, and they should get higher benefits

The reward would have to match the risk, and the risk couldn't be so severe that no one would play her because she gets one-shot.

Doubling her risk by dividing her HP to 300 would need to be matched by at least doubling her reward. So Wendy gets a 3.08x damage modifier and Abigail does 120 damage per hit at night. To be honest I would be fine with that, although I doubt Klei would ever go for it.

[Xplan]

Just now, Lardee said:

This makes no sense considering you don't want to learn Shadow Abby as she is right now.

things were simple: learning the skill of how to kite different bosses to help Abi survive is meaningless and useless.

I'm already good enough at preparing enough resources to overcome any of the Giants. That is because i have already learnt that while playing other characters or playing other games. there are many things that are in common.

But skills about how to kite with a burden Abi can do nothing more than it.

But if learning the skills can let me handle bosses far quicker than being tanky Wes(that is why i asked u if u can defeat deerclops faster than tanking), i wouldn't mind to learn.

[Lardee]

2 minutes ago, Xplan said:

things were simple: learning the skill of how to kite different bosses to help Abi survive is meaningless and useless.

I'm already good enough at preparing enough resources to overcome any of the Giants. That is because i have already learnt that while playing other characters or playing other games. there are many things that are in common.

But skills about how to kite with a burden Abi can do nothing more than it.

But if learning the skills can let me handle bosses far quicker than being tanky Wes(that is why i asked u if u can defeat deerclops faster than tanking), i wouldn't mind to learn.

This is only true if you believe that Abigail multiplying Wendy's damage by 1.54 (2.07 for Shadow Aby) and adding DPS is useless.... which it obviously isn't.

Learning how to kite with Abigail makes you go from tanky Wes to Wolfgang with AoE. That's Wendy pre-skill tree. 

So I have no idea why you wouldn't want to learn how to kite with Abigail. Learning to manage the risk of using Abigail is extremely rewarding.

[Tranoze]

39 minutes ago, Lardee said:

It's by no means clean, but this is the strategy I came up with just now:

Not related but i wanna ask how do you often do to learn how to kill a new boss (include how you learn to kill a boss way long before you become this good)?
A: Spawn it in test world and check on its pattern.
B: Progress through story and face it in hardcore world.
C: Watch tutorials from others.
Or other method?

[Lardee]

Just now, Tranoze said:

Not related but i wanna ask how do you often do to learn how to kill a new boss (include how you learn to kill a boss way long before you become this good)?
A: Spawn it in test world and check on its pattern.
B: Progress through story and face it in hardcore world.
C: Watch tutorials from others.
Or other method?

Come up with an idea and try it out in a test world.

[Xplan]

Just now, Lardee said:

This is only true if you believe that Abigail multiplying Wendy's damage by 1.54 (2.07 for Shadow Aby) and adding DPS is useless.... which it obviously isn't.

Learning how to kite with Abigail makes you go from tanky Wes to Wolfgang with AoE. That's Wendy pre-skill tree. 

So I have no idea why you wouldn't want to learn how to kite with Abigail. Learning to manage the risk of using Abigail is extremely rewarding.

2.07 as you say, but Wendy is a glass cannon. 

She just catch up with Woldgang, but not as stable as wolfgang is

[Lardee]

Just now, Xplan said:

2.07 as you say, but Wendy is a glass cannon. 

She just catch up with Woldgang, but not as stable as wolfgang is

She's Wolfgang plus AoE. That's a huge difference.

Plus I don't see anything wrong with Wendy not being stronger than Wolfgang. It's a PvE game, characters don't have to be balanced.

[Tranoze]

8 minutes ago, Lardee said:

Come up with an idea and try it out in a test world.

Hmm ye it quite different from us who play in pub severs, we just face it head on through trial and error, that why we kinda want some way to face tank boss to atleast know their attack patterns.
And because we often fight them in gang, things are too crowded for us to notices things. Like CC P3 lazer attack, it took me 2 month to realize it's animation will show which type of lazer will be next.

[Lardee]

Just now, Tranoze said:

Hmm ye it quite different from us who play in pub severs, we just face it head on through trial and error, that why we kinda want some way to face tank boss to atleast know their attack patterns.

I mean, this is an issue not about Wendy, but about DST bosses as a whole.

[Tranoze]

6 minutes ago, Lardee said:

I mean, this is an issue not about Wendy, but about DST bosses as a whole.

I think all games a like that. Gamers dont want dev to tell them how to defeat bosses the "right way". And yes this is not an issues about wendy, but for her, abi previously become disable in lots of bosses, plus she is kinda weaker than wes when it come to fight bosses without abi (Wes have perk that make his weapon last longer), so wendy will need more prepare time for even weapon (Each Dsword expected to deal 6800 damage total for normal char, but only 5100 for wendy.)

[Soul7k]

hmmm... just watched the video and I tend to err on the side of nerfs, but with the cure all it is kind of out of hand. Maybe the health bump was a better option, but I didn't like it being temporary, whereas having to reapply it at the sisturn if she died would have made more sense, at least doubling her health in that case wouldn't also be doubling her healing as it is now.

[WenericMember]

8 minutes ago, Soul7k said:

hmmm... just watched the video and I tend to err on the side of nerfs, but with the cure all it is kind of out of hand. Maybe the health bump was a better option, but I didn't like it being temporary, whereas having to reapply it at the sisturn if she died would have made more sense, at least doubling her health in that case wouldn't also be doubling her healing as it is now.

the ideal happy middle would be to make her take a few extra hits, but not make her able to almost solo a boss

Yhats pretty much my opinion. Halving healing in this state would be best imo.

[Pig Princess]

14 hours ago, YuRinshue said:

I am aware of the existence of these features, but they all have some degree of "inadequacy" issues. If you want to listen, I can also explain their problems one by one, but that is cumbersome, and I have written about them in other places such as my article, so here I will briefly explain my overall opinion. Of course, if you want to communicate in detail, you can also do so.
Overall, I don't deny the emergence of these features, but they have too much "substitutability" that makes it difficult for me to choose. If you refer to the skill trees of Votox, Winona, and Woody, you will have the idea of "wow, I find every feature here very interesting, I really want to have it all", but Wendy's current skill tree only gives me "um". It seems that these are the few things that can make me substantially achieve things that I couldn't do before, while the others This feeling of powerlessness.
They are not useless, it's just that I can pick out choices that I hardly change in just one minute, it's like sifting through gold in mud instead of giving me a rich selection.

Could you describe in detail what are their problems? I mean aside from haunting effect being not guaranteed and only having chance to succeed.

[YuRinshue]

15 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

Could you describe in detail what are their problems? I mean aside from haunting effect being not guaranteed and only having chance to succeed.

I'm sorry, I'm currently in working hours. As you know, it takes a long time to provide a detailed description, so it's not suitable during this time period. I have two posts posted yesterday, which contain my detailed opinions and suggestions on the features we discussed before. I recommend you to watch them to understand my thoughts. If you need more detailed communication after watching, I can discuss it carefully when I have free time.

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/162506-lets-have-some-more-interesting-extensions-there-are-still-many-contents-worth-updating-2/

Note: (Yes, these are two posts, I'm not sure why the second one is still a link instead of a page)

[Pig Princess]

16 minutes ago, YuRinshue said:

I'm sorry, I'm currently in working hours. As you know, it takes a long time to provide a detailed description, so it's not suitable during this time period. I have two posts posted yesterday, which contain my detailed opinions and suggestions on the features we discussed before. I recommend you to watch them to understand my thoughts. If you need more detailed communication after watching, I can discuss it carefully when I have free time.

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/162506-lets-have-some-more-interesting-extensions-there-are-still-many-contents-worth-updating-2/

Note: (Yes, these are two posts, I'm not sure why the second one is still a link instead of a page)

Thank you, I'll check them as soon as I have free time too (it's working hours for me too). 

[beepbeepbot]

    Is there a possibility that I need to keep refilling Abby's medication to keep her from dying? It's an ability floor, like marble armor, you can wear it, not dodge any boss attacks, and rely on 95% defense to consume the hp of boss.
    Yeah, I could just use a battle helmet and some dodging to kill dragonflies, and it would look a lot more "awesome" than using marble armor.
    But so what? Dodging and marble armor are just two different styles of play.
    There are many ways to play this game, and many people will play Wendy. Those people have the freedom to choose. They can just keep using potions for Abby, or command Abby to dodge. When I play Wendy, I like to fight the boss one-on-one without summoning Abby. Should I ask them to delete Abby?
    Should the only way out for Wendy be to command Abby to dodge? Those who can't should practice. If those people don't practice, they're lazy, and lazy people don't deserve to play Wendy, is that right?
    I don't think so.

[Lardee]

4 minutes ago, beepbeepbot said:

    Is there a possibility that I need to keep refilling Abby's medication to keep her from dying? It's an ability floor, like marble armor, you can wear it, not dodge any boss attacks, and rely on 95% defense to consume the hp of boss.
    Yeah, I could just use a battle helmet and some dodging to kill dragonflies, and it would look a lot more "awesome" than using marble armor.
    But so what? Dodging and marble armor are just two different styles of play.
    There are many ways to play this game, and many people will play Wendy. Those people have the freedom to choose. They can just keep using potions for Abby, or command Abby to dodge. When I play Wendy, I like to fight the boss one-on-one without summoning Abby. Should I ask them to delete Abby?
    Should the only way out for Wendy be to command Abby to dodge? Those who can't should practice. If those people don't practice, they're lazy, and lazy people don't deserve to play Wendy, is that right?
    I don't think so.

By this logic, Wendy players should be given the option to right click on Abigail's flower and let Abigail kill every boss for them. After all, "There are many ways to play this game, and many people will play Wendy. Those people have the freedom to choose."

[WenericMember]

10 minutes ago, beepbeepbot said:

    Is there a possibility that I need to keep refilling Abby's medication to keep her from dying? It's an ability floor, like marble armor, you can wear it, not dodge any boss attacks, and rely on 95% defense to consume the hp of boss.
    Yeah, I could just use a battle helmet and some dodging to kill dragonflies, and it would look a lot more "awesome" than using marble armor.
    But so what? Dodging and marble armor are just two different styles of play.
    There are many ways to play this game, and many people will play Wendy. Those people have the freedom to choose. They can just keep using potions for Abby, or command Abby to dodge. When I play Wendy, I like to fight the boss one-on-one without summoning Abby. Should I ask them to delete Abby?
    Should the only way out for Wendy be to command Abby to dodge? Those who can't should practice. If those people don't practice, they're lazy, and lazy people don't deserve to play Wendy, is that right?
    I don't think so.

There are other survivors? You want to facetank? Play wolfgang or wig.

You dont want to worry about equipment? Play woodie.

Dont want to fight up close? Walter.

 Want a facetank minion? Willow.

Wendys gameplay is a very unique method of kiting with Abigail.

[beepbeepbot]

11 minutes ago, Lardee said:

By this logic, Wendy players should be given the option to right click on Abigail's flower and let Abigail kill every boss for them. After all, "There are many ways to play this game, and many people will play Wendy. Those people have the freedom to choose."

Yes, it is, and if Klei gave the option to the player, it's obviously up to them what the player chooses, and they should be held accountable for it. What klei should do is give players enough freedom of choice to create more style. Killing the boss instantly is of course one of the ways to play. Even though it's not that "awesome". Anyway, I only care about one thing, that is, not being able to refill potions for Abby is a new gameplay, although it may not be so "awesome", it is unwise to deprive this new gameplay.

5 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Wendys gameplay is a very unique method of kiting with Abigail.

Yes, but it shouldn't be the only way to play.
Also, like I said, I like to recall Abby and then fight the boss alone with dark sword.

[Lardee]

1 minute ago, beepbeepbot said:

Yes, it is, and if Klei gave the option to the player, it's obviously up to them what the player chooses, and they should be held accountable for it. What klei should do is give players enough freedom of choice to create more style. Killing the boss instantly is of course one of the ways to play. Even though it's not that "awesome". Anyway, I only care about one thing, that is, not being able to refill potions for Abby is a new gameplay, although it may not be so "awesome", it is unwise to deprive this new gameplay.

I disagree with the idea that giving Abigail the ability to just steamroll bosses by herself would be a good addition to the game, but you get a lot of points for being consistent.

People have the option to not refill potions for Abigail. If Abigail doesn't get damaged, then she doesn't need to be healed.

[WenericMember]

4 minutes ago, beepbeepbot said:

Yes, it is, and if Klei gave the option to the player, it's obviously up to them what the player chooses, and they should be held accountable for it. What klei should do is give players enough freedom of choice to create more style. Killing the boss instantly is of course one of the ways to play. Even though it's not that "awesome". Anyway, I only care about one thing, that is, not being able to refill potions for Abby is a new gameplay, although it may not be so "awesome", it is unwise to deprive this new gameplay.

Yes, but it shouldn't be the only way to play.
Also, like I said, I like to recall Abby and then fight the boss alone with dark sword.

Then play Willow, who can do the exact same thing but more akin to your playstyle.

[beepbeepbot]

4 minutes ago, Lardee said:

I disagree with the idea that giving Abigail the ability to just steamroll bosses by herself would be a good addition to the game, but you get a lot of points for being consistent.

People have the option to not refill potions for Abigail. If Abigail doesn't get damaged, then she doesn't need to be healed.

I disagree with you, your video demonstrates that Abby can't defeat the boss on her own, without Wendy being involved in anything. Abby not getting hurt assumes that Wendy is involved in the fight and has the same level of maneuvering as you do. And it's your playstyle, not everyone's.

[Lardee]

2 minutes ago, beepbeepbot said:

I disagree with you, your video demonstrates that Abby can't defeat the boss on her own, without Wendy being involved in anything. Abby not getting hurt assumes that Wendy is involved in the fight and has the same level of maneuvering as you do. And it's your playstyle, not everyone's.

I didn't say that Abigail could defeat the boss on her own. I was making the point that by your logic, there would be nothing wrong with Abigail being able to solo bosses.

Which video are you even referring to?

[beepbeepbot]

10 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Then play Willow, who can do the exact same thing but more akin to your playstyle.

It's everyone's freedom to play what they want and how they want to play it.
Like I said above, I only care about one thing, whether I can find something new to enjoy in a game update. After they add the Player tag , I'll consider having Abby join me in a fight instead of soloing the boss. I'm not going to practice too much stuff about Abby's dodging, I'm just going to prepare some extra potions for her, that's the style I'm going to go with.

[WenericMember]

1 minute ago, Lardee said:

I didn't say that Abigail could defeat the boss on her own. I was making the point that by your logic, there would be nothing wrong with Abigail being able to solo bosses.

Which video are you even referring to?

Probably the "blessdd sisturn 3 is op" one, where you demonstrate 4-5x longevity.