Everybody is a combat character

[Jakepeng99]

Everyone but Wes and Wilson. Im not against characters having combat options in their skilltrees, since you know choose your own build and stuff, but it feels like most of them are being balanced around Wolfgang combat.

 

Though, some characters tree's who originally were not combat focused like Wurt's and Willows are pretty much only combat focused, which is a thing i dislike. It only gives combat options to the player.

This could be applied to most skilltrees. Even Walters is all combat but a few Woby skills.

[OMEGASCRUFF]

Yes. A big reason for the skill trees is for combat balancing and addressing power creep.

I don't think this is a problem. Flavor skills are fine, especially when characters do not need a reason for a major DPS boost (Wortox, for example, or already-strong characters.) But they do demand precious Insight points, and most people will choose function over form.

Woby skills need some help, and Walter really should have had another branch of skills for additional QoL. I'm pretty sure after the condensing of the Woby skills, he has the lowest amount of skills on his tree, along with the most amount of easily skippable options.

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Everyone but Wes and Wilson. Im not against characters having combat options in their skilltrees, since you know choose your own build and stuff, but it feels like most of them are being balanced around Wolfgang combat.

 

Though, some characters tree's who originally were not combat focused like Wurt's and Willows are pretty much only combat focused, which is a thing i dislike. It only gives combat options to the player.

This could be applied to most skilltrees. Even Walters is all combat but a few Woby skills.

I feel like Wurt is debatable while she has additional mechanics merm guards were definitely the intended end goal to her character arc and their design screams combat and so do the stat buffs and while her tree did do a lot to improve her combat ability I feel like people really undersell how much it did to improve her experience outside of combat.

For example bloodshots are a really good healing item for Wurts who live in the swamp giving her a other reason to base there after the addition of monkeytails.

Her fertilizer is strong and easy to mass produce for Wurts who are more interested in farming

Her skill tree gave her a good reason to build normal merm houses in the form of tools that ease the process of resource gathering and allow normal merms to assist in the farming process.

Her feeder also streamlines the recruitment process for merms by a lot.

I do however agree that skill trees do have more of a focus on combat for most characters but it mostly seems to be the fault of the planar system.

[Echsrick]

36 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Everyone but Wes and Wilson

sellecting an affinity gives you passive bonus damage and ressistance to one side and against a side, makin wilson a combat character....killing only 1 spider with a hand slot item or even nothing, makes you do combat character

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

sellecting an affinity gives you passive bonus damage and ressistance to one side and against a side, makin wilson a combat character....killing only 1 spider with a hand slot item or even nothing, makes you do combat character

Wes is also a combat character as his balloons do damage and he inflicts a special status on the enemies he fights that prolongs their suffering in combat.

[Evelo]

And yet the combat is still just hold F. Such a shame. It feels like the base game was designed not around combat, but combat keeps being the main focus with more and more updates.

[Echsrick]

3 minutes ago, Evelo said:

And yet the combat is still just hold F. Such a shame. It feels like the base game was designed not around combat, but combat keeps being the main focus with more and more updates.

rifts realy do not help with that do they?

[Volskygge]

agreed wurt skilltree was kinda strange, there is a lot of combat tools but little about expanding merm civilization

[PunkShark]

48 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Everyone but Wes and Wilson. Im not against characters having combat options in their skilltrees, since you know choose your own build and stuff, but it feels like most of them are being balanced around Wolfgang combat.

 

Though, some characters tree's who originally were not combat focused like Wurt's and Willows are pretty much only combat focused, which is a thing i dislike. It only gives combat options to the player.

This could be applied to most skilltrees. Even Walters is all combat but a few Woby skills.

Thing is all of these characters all had combat skills before this. They were a combatant playstyle to begin with. But that doesn't mean all of it is purely combat.
You can argue Willow wasn't a combatant character but she does use fire to solve her problems and she isn't gonna roast some berries over a campfire with those powers she has gotten but burn everything down to the ground and pulverize her enemies to ashes.


 

[Mike23Ua]

Wormwood was NOT a combat character, he had no real combat perks, his skill tree gave him a full fledged combat character skill tree.

But… to play devils advocate in this conversation: Originally DST didn’t really have much combat in it anyway, a lot of fights were optional, and even still some boss fights to this very day are still optional.

But Klei also adds new non-optional stuff too like rift contents, big worm, Varglets in hound waves etc…

I think that because of that all characters (including Wes controversially…) should have some degree of combat based perks.

”But Wes is hardcore challenge mode!”

I mean… is he really? Dude gets free walking canes and a life jacket as early as day one.

What I’d really love to see when it comes to Wes is Balloon Battle Mech, and no I’m not joking I want a Shadow Affinity Battle Mech that’s been imbedded with Shadow power (Aka the same crap that let Wolfgang deadlift a train car off Maxwell)

not only does it make sense in “lore” but it also gives Wes actual fun combat perks in a game that and I really hate to say this…

Seems to be doubling down on adding more combat throughout the experience.

[arubaro]

Shouldn't be a surprise with that many topics of people saying that being able to kill every boss as wilson using the resources of worlds suited for +4players and without needing to share the loot apparently isnt balanced for one player 

Now we got weak low hp enemies and op combat perks...

56 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wormwood was NOT a combat character, he had no real combat perks, his skill tree gave him a full fledged combat character skill tree

Access to dark swords on the way, speed for kitting, being able to use lureplants as trap fields, having unique aoe traps and an armor that reflects damage apparently arent combat perks... they are the most interesting combat perks this game had for a while instead of just raw free stats

[Mike23Ua]

I wouldn’t really call Access to Darkswords, damaging traps or movement speed buffs a “combat character”

By that description WES is a Combat character too then right? Free movement buff with speedy balloon, free damage from bursted balloons- And anyone can craft a Darksword.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wormwood was NOT a combat character, he had no real combat perks, his skill tree gave him a full fledged combat character skill tree.

But… to play devils advocate in this conversation: Originally DST didn’t really have much combat in it anyway, a lot of fights were optional, and even still some boss fights to this very day are still optional.

But Klei also adds new non-optional stuff too like rift contents, big worm, Varglets in hound waves etc…

I think that because of that all characters (including Wes controversially…) should have some degree of combat based perks.

”But Wes is hardcore challenge mode!”

I mean… is he really? Dude gets free walking canes and a life jacket as early as day one.

What I’d really love to see when it comes to Wes is Balloon Battle Mech, and no I’m not joking I want a Shadow Affinity Battle Mech that’s been imbedded with Shadow power (Aka the same crap that let Wolfgang deadlift a train car off Maxwell)

not only does it make sense in “lore” but it also gives Wes actual fun combat perks in a game that and I really hate to say this…

Seems to be doubling down on adding more combat throughout the experience.

Wormwood was a combat character just a more tactical one at least originally before powercreep set in he was one of the best horde fighters just behind Wendy due to not being able to be stunlocked and a skill set geared towards killing hordes.

[arubaro]

16 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I wouldn’t really call Access to Darkswords, damaging traps or movement speed buffs a “combat character”

By that description WES is a Combat character too then right? Free movement buff with speedy balloon, free damage from bursted balloons- And anyone can craft a Darksword.

Right, these are wonderful sailing perks...

[Jakepeng99]

22 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I feel like Wurt is debatable while she has additional mechanics merm guards were definitely the intended end goal to her character arc and their design screams combat and so do the stat buffs and while her tree did do a lot to improve her combat ability I feel like people really undersell how much it did to improve her experience outside of combat.

For example bloodshots are a really good healing item for Wurts who live in the swamp giving her a other reason to base there after the addition of monkeytails.

Her fertilizer is strong and easy to mass produce for Wurts who are more interested in farming

Her skill tree gave her a good reason to build normal merm houses in the form of tools that ease the process of resource gathering and allow normal merms to assist in the farming process.

Her feeder also streamlines the recruitment process for merms by a lot.

I do however agree that skill trees do have more of a focus on combat for most characters but it mostly seems to be the fault of the planar system.

Nah Wurts is combat focused. What you mentioned is a small part of her tree. They made her main feature, the merms, combat focused. And i agree the planar system in my opinion just made more powercreep, its kinda weird.

 

 

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Nah Wurts is combat focused. What you mentioned is a small part of her tree. They made her main feature, the merms, combat focused. And i agree the planar system in my opinion just made more powercreep, its kinda weird.

 

 

The disagree that it's a small part tools make a large improvement to normal merms and set them apart from guard merms in what they can do. The amphibian tree regardless of if we like it or not changes how Wurt interacts with wetness vs other characters. The fertilizer is very impactful if you don't do crop combos. Bloodshots are a good cheap healing item while the kelp dish makes merm management easier yes she got combat buffs but that wasn't the only focus of her tree.

[HowlVoid]

Combat is a huge part of this game, not sure how long people are going to keep burrying their heads in the sand for.

Once winter, darkness, hunger, etc all stop being anything but a nuisance, all that's left is combat. It's the only threshold that requires skills vs just knowledge and always has room for improvement. Well besides beating the clock, and even then that involves combat.

There's people that still enjoy the forge... which removes everything from the game BUT combat. 

[Well-met]

how is wilson not a combat character?

torch throw dominates unexpected night fights.

[WenericMember]

Combat has become the focus for dst progression, shown by the new boss every other update. By denying characters combat perks, progression becomes homogenous.

I think its fine the base combat mechanics are simple, as long as each survivors combat perks focus on a unique expansion of combat. Wendy has her unique kiting with Abigail, Wigfrid has her weapons and her songs, Woodie has moose mechanics, etc.

Thays why Wolfgang is an uninteresting combat character for a number of people. He doesnt evolve combat with unique mechanics in practice. Hes just bigger number.

[reddocc]

This is true specially with wormwood and his overpowered saladmanders

[leo920101]

they aren't, but they have to be.

[layangan putus]

Why do you do combat? Outside of PVP and personal evil plan - You combat to mainly prolong your existence by eliminating incoming threats, to get specific resources including boss drop, & to progress the mysteries of shadow/lunar by defeating Shadow Pieces & Crab King only after you have figured the previous steps of the puzzle. Without depending on shadow/lunar abilities, the level of combat complexity can start from simple tanking & hit -> hit & dodge -> into various specific mechanics like animation cancelling even calculating foes' ability cooldown & phases but one should always master the knowledge gained through enough experiences or compiled information about health pool, total damage per hit, total sanity drain, alignment, even loot in Scrapbook. The problem appears when some of the characters are very limited in dealing with multiple mobs which then falls into running for safety because that's the best option to take for that scenario. Running from foes can be a good decision to make unless it is a boss fight like Bee Queen phase 2 which is the worst phase a boss can have in DST. Combat, being dominantly responsible for the fun and engaging factor in DST (most interactions), shouldn't be ended this way especially for new players trying to enjoy, learn the game, & solve the mysteries in Constant. Apparently, Scrapbook doesn't really help new players to be a better combatant so maybe skill tree can remedy this? Have you ever imagined about preparing a fight against DF using only information from Scrapbook and relying on existing basic combat as new players? But of course, those cool abilities in marketing will easily attract more customers. 

[RexySeven]

Characters being tied to combat is direct result of the entire game balancing and progression being locked behind combat.

Want better gear? Combat.
Want to progress the storyline? Combat.
Want to do anything post-rifts? Combat.
Want to just sit at base? Too bad, game have something funny for you every couple of days.

Characters that don't have any combat skills usually just considered "weak".
I'd actually much enjoy less combat-oriented additions added to DST post-rift because it feels like the only thing you do is fighting in order to progress at all.

[Sapientis]

On 12/4/2024 at 9:39 PM, Mike23Ua said:

Wormwood was NOT a combat character, he had no real combat perks, his skill tree gave him a full fledged combat character skill tree.

Not only did he have many combat perks already (as many pointed out already), his skilltree is probably the least combat oriented out of any skilltree we've had (don't mention Wilson).

He has 3 pet skills (1 kinda combat one), 5 plant crafting skills, 4 shroom skills (1 kinda combat related but really used to evade combat), 1 Manure producing skill, 2 farming skills, Bee Kind (whatever this one is), 1 faster fertilizing (QoL really), 2 QoL skills for his previous combat items (Bramble Husk Specialist is the real one strong combat skill), 4 blooming related skills and one for stronger healing (also not combat skills). Then we have Lunar Guardian skills which are combat skills, but one is combat evading and only one is higher dps.

So to sum it up he has 3 skills that increase his damage output, 2 skills that help him evade fights and 1 skill to reset his traps in full bloom.

For the comparison Willow has 3 utility skills and 2 skills for faster BERNIE!, the rest is combat related.

[SilverSpoon]

Everyone should be a fighting character (to some extent).

Because no one should feel miserable while everyone is fighting a boss, and to encourage team play that takes advantage of each character's combat skills.