A Win is A Win

[Hollow soul 3]

1 minute ago, Fitzee said:

"Is it fun or cool?" should be the question here, and for some? Yes it is.

Though optimizing the fun out of your own game isn't exactly a new concept.

Yeah, that's really the decoy. In my group the pierce is going to synergize better, but the decoy looks fun

[Mike23Ua]

“Nice” Wortox should have a brand new Downside, since he’s now loved by the things that are normally hostile toward him, his own kind (Krampi) have now turned against him as being a traitor to their evil ways.. and as a result, Krampi will now randomly pop up to attempt to attack Wortox every now and again.

This would also indirectly make the Krampi enemy mob more common if people are playing in a server with a “nice” Wortox.

[Y0sH]

2 minutes ago, salty_cookie said:

I like the new nice inclination

I wouldn't be upset if they left the neutral stuff in the Nice side of the tree but it really leaves that side with not many downsides at all. I think leaving the downsides in makes the player's decision on which side all the more crucial. 

[Master_NiX]

Even if you dislike the fact that Wortox can become Nice now. I am happy that I dont have to worry about catcoons scratching me for no reasons anymore.

-Proud owner of a white cat and a trash racoon cat.

[Demigardenerner]

1 hour ago, Y0sH said:

Wortox Mains WE DID IT!!! 

A lot of us advocated for Wortox to be able to move heavy objects with an increased soul use penalty and now it's slated to be implemented in the next Beta update!!!!

I know a lot of us aren't happy still with the Knabsack, personally I don't mind it either way I just wish they re-added the Planar damage options. I still would like it to cost more to craft but be repairable with souls but ehh.

Here's my issue though; I do NOT like mobs being neutral to Wortox. Wether Naughty or Nice he STILL is an inner dimensional jumping Imp that heavily relies on collecting/eating/dropping the souls of those that he's killed or witnessed die. If the creatures of the constant can immediately look at a Krampus and be hostile towards it then they should be hostile towards something directly related to Krampus regardless of its moral code of it being Naughty or Nice. 

In place of this I don't have many ideas but what comes to mind first is for the Nice alignment maybe change his 50% food penalty to something like 35%? Maybe make his soul animation shorter as if eating vegetables? Idk but please consider keeping mobs hostile towards him.

Regardless, Great job on the Skilltrees and thanks for listening to us!

Maybe the nice inclination because it seems to be multiplayer based could give him a postive sanity aura to his fellow survivors or give him cool interactions with souls on other survivor based things like fueling Wanda clock with soul power that does something cool or allow Wickerbottom to craft a soul based book.or something like that

[Peasant]

54 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Meanwhile poor Wurt is gonna still get smacked around labeled as a “Monster”

I remeber that once there's a king, merms are no longer viewed as enemy by the pigs, did they removed that?

[BalkanCockroach]

13 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

"Is it fun or cool?" should be the question here, and for some? Yes it is.

Though optimizing the fun out of your own game isn't exactly a new concept.

Naughty is more fun for sure. 

[loonreaper]

As someone who's been a support slave for the past couple months, I will happily stay naughty. I mean, pigs and bunnymen have been attacking me for no particular advantage but now we get reaper x2 plus an aoe decoy + souljars. Worth itttt.  I hope they keep all this. I don't actually care about the heavy object thing because I never minded hopping off and on a beefalo with 0 day taming. It's soooo much easier to move around now with the jars too that the amount of time you spend on a beef moving things around is still extremely trivial anyway. My only complaint at this point are all the Wendy complaints are gonna extend this beta 

[Y0sH]

6 minutes ago, Demigardenerner said:

Maybe the nice inclination because it seems to be multiplayer based could give him a postive sanity aura to his fellow survivors or give him cool interactions with souls on other survivor based things like fueling Wanda clock with soul power that does something cool or allow Wickerbottom to craft a soul based book.or something like that.

This seems like a good idea too. However I main both Wortox and Wanda and if you mention anything that can in anyway help Wanda the forums will crucify you lol but I do like the suggestion. 

11 minutes ago, Master_NiX said:

Even if you dislike the fact that Wortox can become Nice now. I am happy that I dont have to worry about catcoons scratching me for no reasons anymore.

-Proud owner of a white cat and a trash racoon cat.

Being sniped by a long jumping Catcoon out of the blue in the first few days when you don't have armor definitely didn't feel good and has killed me a couple times.

[BudinDePan]

56 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

They have the monster tag ingame. Not the non-human tag.

i have no idea about tags but bunnyman call wortox and webber monster but not wurt.

[BalkanCockroach]

5 minutes ago, BudinDePan said:

i have no idea about tags but bunnyman call wortox and webber monster but not wurt.

They like vegans.

@Fitzee You were right. I don't think Wurt has a monster tag like Wortox and Webber. My bad :/

[Master_NiX]

36 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

Maybe a good downside would be a small sanity drain when killing neutral mobs now?

Since he's morally nice in this example it should cause him a small dip in sanity per kill?

By the way, didnt they increase sanity drain from using souls? They could increase that further for the Nice side, I wouldn't really mind, since I always eat until I am insane xD

Tho, I do wish that pomegranate had unique dish that Wortox could eat. Like Juice drink or something.

[Master_NiX]

8 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

It's all good. It's easy to get mixed up due to pigmen being the usual example used when a character is determined to be different species-wise. Just remember that creatures like catcoons aren't hostile to Wurt in comparison to the others. 

Maybe it's time for tags to change?

Webber could be a "spider" tag, since he has the same enemies that Spider does.
Wortox while appears like Krampi, been shown as much nicer person in various trailers Klei did, which is why I've been asking for this change for a long time.

BTW, am I the only one who feels like that some people forgot that he gets 50% less value from all food types? Increased sanity drain on consuming souls can bring him into dangerous situation much quicker.

[Y0sH]

28 minutes ago, Master_NiX said:

BTW, am I the only one who feels like that some people forgot that he gets 50% less value from all food types? Increased sanity drain on consuming souls can bring him into dangerous situation much quicker.

Tbh I love this change in the Naughty tree because before Wortox's skilltree I would constantly eat my souls into insanity and it was definitely a considerable downside that was definitely felt throughout my gameplay lol. It would get so much of an issue sometimes that I'd get enough meat to make meaty stews just to not take the sanity hit with souls eating.

[Master_NiX]

4 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

Tbh I love this change in the Naughty tree because before Wortox's skilltree I would constantly eat my souls into insanity and it was definitely a considerable downside that was definitely felt throughout my gameplay lol. It would get so much of an issue sometimes that I'd get enough meat to make meaty stews just to not take the sanity hit with souls eating.

So, in the end we got
Nice - Easier to get insane due to soul consumption, while treated as neutral.
Naughty - Harder to get insane due to soul consumption, while treated as monster.

Soul Pierce is also a strong tool in Naughty list. So, I feel like we are really close to the sweet spot between inclinations.
Currently Nice Inclination is more inclined to teaming up with others without the risk of being damaged for being a monster. I can imagine him working with Warly, delivering various items while Warly makes him Grim Galette to restore sanity. Just being a friendly delivery boy, haha.
"SoulExpress"

[Y0sH]

2 minutes ago, Master_NiX said:

So, in the end we got
Nice - Easier to get insane due to soul consumption, while treated as neutral.
Naughty - Harder to get insane due to soul consumption, while treated as monster.

Soul Pierce is also a strong tool in Naughty list. So, I feel like we are really close to the sweet spot between inclinations.
Currently Nice Inclination is more inclined to teaming up with others without the risk of being damaged for being a monster. I can imagine him working with Warly, delivering various items while Warly makes him Grim Galette to restore sanity. Just being a friendly delivery boy, haha.
"SoulExpress"

Unless they changed it (and they might've) there's no sanity loss at all when eating souls on the naughty side. And I agree we're so close to the sweet spot. Maybe bring back the planar damage ability for knabsack ONLY when aligned with Naughty? I feel like he's one update away after this next one from being the perfect balance between Naughty or Nice. Now as for the Neutral part of the Tree I have no clue how that can be better because it seems incredibly niche to me.

[Master_NiX]

Just now, Y0sH said:

Unless they changed it (and they might've) there's no sanity loss at all when eating souls on the naughty side. And I agree we're so close to the sweet spot. Maybe bring back the planar damage ability for knabsack ONLY when aligned with Naughty? I feel like he's one update away after this next one from being the perfect balance between Naughty or Nice. Now as for the Neutral part of the Tree I have no clue how that can be better because it seems incredibly niche to me.

Isn't planar damage already behind the last tier of Naughty Tree?
I havent really played much with Naughty tree. I am enjoying fast travel of Nice tree, because in games with new players, they often demand attention. Grabbing Soul storage and long distance teleport discount, makes it much easier to help everyone.

[ShadowDuelist]

2 hours ago, Y0sH said:

In place of this I don't have many ideas but what comes to mind first is for the Nice alignment maybe change his 50% food penalty to something like 35%? Maybe make his soul animation shorter as if eating vegetables? Idk but please consider keeping mobs hostile towards him.

The "nice" side of wortox is more multiplayer and healing friendly, it could maybe keep you hostile to everything that hates you now BUT heal all allied mobs that the other players are friends with. It could also work on beefalos.

Also I don't agree that teleporting a beefalo is only to carry heavy objects, even though I feel it's nice that he can TP heavy objects, I still think he should be able to TP mounts. This could as well be on the good side, considering that this side doesn't have many fighting options, it could synergize with the beefalo being TPed at least.

[Y0sH]

10 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

The "nice" side of wortox is more multiplayer and healing friendly, it could maybe keep you hostile to everything that hates you now BUT heal all allied mobs that the other players are friends with. It could also work on beefalos.

Also I don't agree that teleporting a beefalo is only to carry heavy objects, even though I feel it's nice that he can TP heavy objects, I still think he should be able to TP mounts. This could as well be on the good side, considering that this side doesn't have many fighting options, it could synergize with the beefalo being TPed at least.

This could create a great synergy with Wortox and Wurt's Merms in boss fights or race wars with other mobs.

 

If they do implement teleporting with Beefalos make it also with an increase in soul usage like double at least. The nice side of the tree seems to have very little downsides and I'm afraid that it will get to a point that the Nice side is automatically a "must pick" over naughty while both should make the player heavily consider the pros and cons of both.

[Dingle]

If they added big downsides to Nice, I would just avoid picking it. Which is too bad, because the alignment system is interesting.

I'm already right on the verge of just staying neutral. The Neutral perks themselves still seem pretty bad, I don't mean those. I mean that the best multiplayer build is probably just going to be 7 Nice, 7 Naughty, and picking shadow or lunar.

Big Reason:

You need 6 points in Naughty to get any Soul damage ability. This also means you would need 9 points in Nice to get the alignment. No shadow or lunar, and 2 filler points in the weaker shallow part of soul bastion. You don't even get the echo heal.

So if you want Nice, you either forgo both decoy bomb and soul pierce, or you get a very limited build.

All so catcoons don't scratch you and you can hire pigmen.

I really wish the alignments only required 2 points higher than the other, not 3. Or soul damage wasn't locked behind 6 perk points.

[Jazzuo]

8 hours ago, BalkanCockroach said:

Is it worth hopping instead of kiting?

yeah, actually you deal more dps if you hop instead of kitting, and with the longer duration and 2 soul echo, you can actually improve a lot of dps to wortox by hopping

6 hours ago, Master_NiX said:

Isn't planar damage already behind the last tier of Naughty Tree?
I havent really played much with Naughty tree. I am enjoying fast travel of Nice tree, because in games with new players, they often demand attention. Grabbing Soul storage and long distance teleport discount, makes it much easier to help everyone.

nope, it was removed the planar damage, so the knabsack can't get it, it was made so now the knabsack is an early-mid game dark sword cheaper and easier to get and better most of the casses

[Bumber64]

14 hours ago, Master_NiX said:

So, in the end we got
Nice - Easier to get insane due to soul consumption, while treated as neutral.
Naughty - Harder to get insane due to soul consumption, while treated as monster.

Naughty is getting a delay before soul overload, which lowers the risk of getting stunlocked while using soul pierce to kill stuff.

[Echsrick]

only thing left is THE KNAPSACK being...well you heard me many times probably, about kidnapping medium sized creatures in unique sack inventory that can only hold stealable because it just fits more with the discribtion of wortox being close long enought with krampus


alsol the nice side sounds stronger then the naughty side

nice is pigs and stuff are ok with you while naughty just gives you a who knows how long timer if your soul count is to hight before you blow up half of your souls, wich is...not good, like you can just drop them and never face that issue ever

[Dingle]

7 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

only thing left is THE KNAPSACK being...well you heard me many times probably, about kidnapping medium sized creatures in unique sack inventory that can only hold stealable because it just fits more with the discribtion of wortox being close long enought with krampus


alsol the nice side sounds stronger then the naughty side

nice is pigs and stuff are ok with you while naughty just gives you a who knows how long timer if your soul count is to hight before you blow up half of your souls, wich is...not good, like you can just drop them and never face that issue ever

We should probably just ask for it to get a bug net function. I don't think we'd get a big new functionality thing like stuffing beefalo in our pocket.

I predict the naughty side thing will be useful for stuffing overloaded souls into a jar. Nice quality of life, but not particularly strong. I will probably want it more than Nice, as I hate overloading.

[goblinball]

Wortox having the monster tag and as such being bullied by pig men is a cute flavor downside, but nothing more. I don’t understand why ppl are acting like being able to remove that is such a big deal.

It basically just means it’ll be easier to base near pig king now. I really don’t think that being attacked by pigs was a key component to wortox’s character and playstyle. I won’t miss it now that it can be gone.