A Win is A Win

[Y0sH]

Wortox Mains WE DID IT!!! 

A lot of us advocated for Wortox to be able to move heavy objects with an increased soul use penalty and now it's slated to be implemented in the next Beta update!!!!

I know a lot of us aren't happy still with the Knabsack, personally I don't mind it either way I just wish they re-added the Planar damage options. I still would like it to cost more to craft but be repairable with souls but ehh.

Here's my issue though; I do NOT like mobs being neutral to Wortox. Wether Naughty or Nice he STILL is an inner dimensional jumping Imp that heavily relies on collecting/eating/dropping the souls of those that he's killed or witnessed die. If the creatures of the constant can immediately look at a Krampus and be hostile towards it then they should be hostile towards something directly related to Krampus regardless of its moral code of it being Naughty or Nice. 

In place of this I don't have many ideas but what comes to mind first is for the Nice alignment maybe change his 50% food penalty to something like 35%? Maybe make his soul animation shorter as if eating vegetables? Idk but please consider keeping mobs hostile towards him.

Regardless, Great job on the Skilltrees and thanks for listening to us!

[Mike23Ua]

It’s just people wanting to braindeadly remove even the slightest traces of a character having a unique downside, and Klei unfortunately obliging with such a request because it’s the most popular/vocal.

Wortox not getting punched in the face immediately by Pigmen anymore also means he can now do something he originally couldn’t, hire them as followers to help chop forests down etc..

Meanwhile poor Wurt is gonna still get smacked around labeled as a “Monster”

I suppose they maybe feel Wurt is okay because her Merm Army replacements? Honestly I don’t know…

But I do agree with you that rather naughty or nice it shouldn’t make things peaceful to him.

[BalkanCockroach]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Meanwhile poor Wurt is gonna still get smacked around labeled as a “Monster”

 

She has easy access to stronger and better followers for a lower cost. And i think it makes sense for Wortox to have good reputation among Constants inhabitants when he's nice. Monster thing isn't even that interesting of a gameplay quirk. It's whatever imo.

1 minute ago, Fitzee said:

Not a monster, a "merm", aka the rival of pigs.

If you're gonna try to make a point  use an example that makes sense, like Webber or something. 

He probably said monster because Wortox, Webber and Wurt are referred to as  the "monster characters".

[Radicaljoe]

The horrible downside of not being able to befriend bunnymen or go to the pig farm until the moon comes out.

[BalkanCockroach]

Just now, Fitzee said:

The "non-human characters" makes more sense, though I understand what you mean.

They have the monster tag ingame. Not the non-human tag.

[asdsaax]

For me that perk is a red flag, because that means Klei is doubling down on nice tree being multiplayer slave branch, that just overbuffs and overkills wortox's supporting without any nuances to his personal gameplay

Because who will benefit from no-hostility? Pub players that have to suffer because people always base at pig king

but since I don't have any ideas to improve it, I guess it will stay as a tool to avoid going full naughty inclination, if player wishes to do so

[BalkanCockroach]

5 minutes ago, Lordowsky said:

but since I don't have any ideas to improve it, I guess it will stay as a tool to avoid going full naughty inclination, if player wishes to do so

I can't find any good use for the naugthy side except for the jar skills. To me the nice side just looks way better. 

[Steorra]

If you can't let designer remove your mainly character downside by skill tree, it's obviously a skill issue lol. Yeh, Wortox main players win. It's a simple but successful double standard.

[Mike23Ua]

1 minute ago, BalkanCockroach said:

I can't find any good use for the naugthy side except for the jar skills. To me the nice side just looks way better. 

Wouldn’t be that way if the Knabsack actually let you go around performing naughty actions of kidnapping Baby Beefalo or something hugely naughty to that effect.

[salty_cookie]

Just now, Steorra said:

mainly character downside

That would be half good stats and that was not changed

[Radicaljoe]

2 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

I can't find any good use for the naugthy side except for the jar skills. To me the nice side just looks way better. 

I love Imp-losion and soul pierce. They're just so cool looking.

[Y0sH]

12 minutes ago, Radicaljoe said:

The horrible downside of not being able to befriend bunnymen or go to the pig farm until the moon comes out.

Im not gunna throw the cursed phrase of "OP" around but let's just say that Wortox in his current iteration is uh.. "Strong" to say the least. I think it's fine for him to keep his downsides regardless of how his skilltree is used. 

And again how "Nice" can he be when still has to mostly kill to survive ya know? Seems kinda like an unwarranted buff imo

[Steorra]

Just now, salty_cookie said:

That would be half good stats and that was not changed

Whatever. 

I have to say before today's Stream the only one reason stop me to play Wortox is the hostile from pigman. Now this downside has removed. Now I'm a Wortox main player.

[Hollow soul 3]

Can we heal them if they're allied to us? I think it could give us something to heal, if we invest in those perks but want to solo play.

[BalkanCockroach]

Just now, Radicaljoe said:

I love Imp-losion and soul pierce. They're just so cool looking.

They look pretty cool but i don't think they are worth insight points. Even in boss fights i can't imagine them being that useful. And outside of bossfights do i really need that tiny bit of damage when i can just kite and use a weapon for more damage?

[Radicaljoe]

Just now, Y0sH said:

Im not gunna throw the cursed phrase of "OP" around but let's just say that Wortox in his current iteration is uh.. "Strong" to say the least. I think it's fine for him to keep his downsides regardless of how his skilltree is used. 

And again how "Nice" can he be when still has to mostly kill to survive ya know? Seems kinda like an unwarranted buff imo

Well that's all the survivor isn't it? Even the Inevitable Christmas special Wilson says "who must Starve so that we don't?" Everyone has to kill to survive in the constant. 

I agree it was weird they did just straight up remove the monster tag though, wasn't expecting that at all. I just don't think it's particularly gameplay changing 

1 minute ago, BalkanCockroach said:

They look pretty cool but i don't think they are worth insight points. Even in boss fights i can't imagine them being that useful. And outside of bossfights do i really need that tiny bit of damage when i can just kite and use a weapon for more damage?

I like using them for soul collecting. Free dopamine generator from watching the line of bees chasing me fall like dominos.

[asdsaax]

11 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

I can't find any good use for the naugthy side except for the jar skills. To me the nice side just looks way better. 

In short:

• Possible insane interactions against BQ and AFW
• +1 hit extra if you use decoys offensively
• Anything that can overwhelm you in group, can be overwhelmed back
• Soul rush trick (forcing soul pierce to hit your target multiple times with hops)
• Early game consistent hambat with 2 soul jars for grinding mobs (essentially 2 silk to 2-shot bees, instead of wasting darkswords or hambats)

Btw each to their own, I'm listing those as a fun fact not as an attempt to change your mind

[Hollow soul 3]

7 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

I can't find any good use for the naugthy side except for the jar skills. To me the nice side just looks way better. 

Really? I feel like it's a bit of a game changer to be honest. Im planning on a neutral wortox still. Too tempted by things from each side.

[Y0sH]

3 minutes ago, Radicaljoe said:

Well that's all the survivor isn't it? Even the Inevitable Christmas special Wilson says "who must Starve so that we don't?" Everyone has to kill to survive in the constant. 

I agree it was weird they did just straight up remove the monster tag though, wasn't expecting that at all. I just don't think it's particularly gameplay changing 

Wortox and Wigfrid imo are really the only two characters heavily incentivized to Kill for food. All other survivors as far as I know can survive solely off of non meat dishes. 

I know a lot people nowadays feel that "balance" has been thrown out the window years ago in DST but completely taking away one of a survivor's downsides without at least putting another in its place seems like a heavy handed approach personally. 

[Creatorofswamps]

I think the fact that he is attacked as a monster should remain

[BalkanCockroach]

5 minutes ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

Really? I feel like it's a bit of a game changer to be honest. Im planning on a neutral wortox still. Too tempted by things from each side.

The decoy i can see being useful in farming souls but the soul pierce thing idk i guess it's also good for farming souls. I like getting all the flute skills and and all of the traversal and knabsack/jar skills after that it's whatever for me. 

9 minutes ago, Lordowsky said:

+1 hit extra if you use decoys offensively

Is it worth hopping instead of kiting?

[Hollow soul 3]

Maybe. I think the soul pierce is going to make soul farming way faster. I guess it depends how it controls on Xbox.

[Y0sH]

Maybe a good downside would be a small sanity drain when killing neutral mobs now?

Since he's morally nice in this example it should cause him a small dip in sanity per kill?

[asdsaax]

5 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

Is it worth hopping instead of kiting?

Personally? Since souls aren't restricted to just healing anymore and you can amass more of them
it's pretty viable to maintain higher dps with soul hops, considering how it cuts on walking and essentially lands an extra hit

So in short: Time is the key and it doesn't hurt to do so

EDIT:
Obvi it's not Wolfgang's type of damage, but as 3k Wortox player who did everything the Wilson way?
That's a treat

[salty_cookie]

I like the new nice inclination