Lurking Nightmares are incredibly overtuned.

[00petar00]

18 minutes ago, arubaro said:

according to numbers, toad is the hardest boss, way more than fuelweaver. Is a new mob, ofc it feels hard

It shows that you are being disingenuous, toadstool has that much HP because the main difficulty is resource management and being prepared. There's no other boss that has anywhere close to that amount of HP.

Terrorbeak has no special attacks and only has blink ability when hit. Also, crawling horror and terrorbeak can be hit once without kiting the first attack and can be kited even with reasonably high ping when there's 1-2. Lurking nightmare has over double HP and more damage with rifts on while it also has special attack and can knock player off the beefalo.

25 minutes ago, arubaro said:

i want the game to be more difficult but if i find something hard or that, imo, is unfair i wont go against feedback that supports changes but usually is just lazy people wanting dopamine effortless

Like I said, game is leaning towards sandbox so you'll be left disappointed If you are expecting a huge spike in difficulty.

26 minutes ago, arubaro said:

ye because better having the 435934753th optional piece of content than updating what stuff hunts the player. The characters got 4397349 new stuff while sanity are still 2 mobs that now we barelly see because of CC crown and easier than ever access to sanity dishes

but dont surprise you are against anything of that

There is only so many things that can be mandatory to deal with, players need breathing room so unless current survival mechanics get toned down or removed it isn't something that a lot of players want to have to do very often, especially if it is as often as brightshade waves that become a chore so players use methods to not deal with them as much as possible.

20 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Arubaro rejected the suggestion that "if you will constructive discussion you stop being unnecessarily rude".
At this point, Arubaro is just saying random things for trolling around, so just report him and leave him alone.

I don't think he did anything reportable and I have probably done similar things in the past, it isn't easy to always be calm. Either way I try to avoid reporting people.

[Electroely]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

but you dont need to really see it since you know that, after attacking them, you need to move so you can start moving in the right moment they received your hit

i think is a "getting used" scenario

You just walk into the attack if you do that. The direction the counter-attack comes from is random, and walking diagonally away doesn't work. Out of the 8 directions you could choose, 6 of them are going to get you hit. The odds are definitely not in your favor. I can dodge them consistently when I can see the horns and I stand still to react to whichever direction they're coming from, but that doesn't work when you can't see the horns at all. It also doesn't work when fighting multiple shadows because you can't stand still.

[arubaro]

16 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

It shows that you are being disingenuous, toadstool has that much HP because the main difficulty is resource management and being prepared. There's no other boss that has anywhere close to that amount of HP.

Terrorbeak has no special attacks and only has blink ability when hit. Also, crawling horror and terrorbeak can be hit once without kiting the first attack and can be kited even with reasonably high ping when there's 1-2. Lurking nightmare has over double HP and more damage with rifts on while it also has special attack and can knock player off the beefalo.

to be fair, i didnt knew they can knock off your beef so i will give them that but on feet they arent much harder than a terrorbeak since they are slow so you have plenty of time to recover or to position. Terrorbeaks are way more dangerous, these new guys only take longer. 
Also, with both pieces of planar armor equiped, the 20 extra damage is totally blocked

Sure, the wave is dangerous and i got hit many times by them but, again, i see it as something to get use to. Lets see in some months.

Im not saying all of this to prevent a nerf, i wont care if they change how the wave works so people with higher ping than what i usually experience have a better experience, is just what i saw. Is fun, challenging, but i dont think they are overtuned at all. If terrorbeaks were added today a lot more topics than simply this one would have been created

6 minutes ago, Electroely said:

You just walk into the attack if you do that. The direction the counter-attack comes from is random, and walking diagonally away doesn't work. Out of the 8 directions you could choose, 6 of them are going to get you hit. The odds are definitely not in your favor. I can dodge them consistently when I can see the horns and I stand still to react to whichever direction they're coming from, but that doesn't work when you can't see the horns at all. It also doesn't work when fighting multiple shadows because you can't stand still.

i know but we arent used to needing to move right away hitting. It works for me 

obv is hard when you have low visibility but also riftless shadows's waves are slower

[dst_lover]

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

It shows that you are being disingenuous, toadstool has that much HP because the main difficulty is resource management and being prepared. There's no other boss that has anywhere close to that amount of HP.

Terrorbeak has no special attacks and only has blink ability when hit. Also, crawling horror and terrorbeak can be hit once without kiting the first attack and can be kited even with reasonably high ping when there's 1-2. Lurking nightmare has over double HP and more damage with rifts on while it also has special attack and can knock player off the beefalo.

Like I said, game is leaning towards sandbox so you'll be left disappointed If you are expecting a huge spike in difficulty.

There is only so many things that can be mandatory to deal with, players need breathing room so unless current survival mechanics get toned down or removed it isn't something that a lot of players want to have to do very often, especially if it is as often as brightshade waves that become a chore so players use methods to not deal with them as much as possible.

I don't think he did anything reportable and I have probably done similar things in the past, it isn't easy to always be calm. Either way I try to avoid reporting people.

 1 me and my friend went to the ruin and they knocked me out of the beefalo after I get hit like 3 times idk if it’s a bug or what but to me this problem of them knocking you out of the beefalo and other mobs too like the nightmare is kinda annoying and i think Klee should fix this

2 yes terrorbeak are weaker of course then the lurking nightmare because the devs made this that why to make the ruins harder and I am very happy with this

3 after the last update no they add a giant worm that hunt you they make the ruins harder and they add new difficulty after the rifts 

4 first the bright shade are not that big of a problem they add an item that make it so if u use it on any plant the bright shade will not spawn on it 

5 a lot of people love and enjoy the game when its difficult 

[Mike23Ua]

27 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

 1 me and my friend went to the ruin and they knocked me out of the beefalo after I get hit like 3 times idk if it’s a bug or what but to me this problem of them knocking you out of the beefalo and other mobs too like the nightmare is kinda annoying and i think Klee should fix this

2 yes terrorbeak are weaker of course then the lurking nightmare because the devs made this that why to make the ruins harder and I am very happy with this

3 after the last update no they add a giant worm that hunt you they make the ruins harder and they add new difficulty after the rifts 

4 first the bright shade are not that big of a problem they add an item that make it so if u use it on any plant the bright shade will not spawn on it 

5 a lot of people love and enjoy the game when its difficult 

It wasn’t until the Beefalo Bell was added into the game, that a player could bring Beefalo down into a cave, this causes what is known as a “ripple effect” Because NONE of the Caves Content was ever designed with the intentions that you would be able to use a Beefalo, it feels weird and out of place when newer content IS Designed to interact with them.

Personally I am extremely disappointed that Klei teased this new update as being a huge caves content update/QoL but it doesn’t really tweak caves combat.

And you may disagree but now that Beefalo CAN be brought into caves I wish they would tweak the rest of the caves to have more mobs and interactions that interact with that. (Including updating old content so it isn’t just “new stuff” that accounts for them.)

[arubaro]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Personally I am extremely disappointed that Klei teased this new update as being a huge caves content update/QoL but it doesn’t really tweak caves combat.

 

Nah, it only adds a way to revive beefalos; a planar saddle; a new strong and fun range weapon; a new weapon with high damage, life steal and a hunger mechanic; a new shadow for the fissures that also gets powered by rifts with counter mechanics to riders; an enviroment danger in form of ickers that block your paths while fighting and a new boss that hunts the player

nope, doesnt tweak caves combat at all

[Mike23Ua]

13 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Nah, it only adds a way to revive beefalos; a planar saddle; a new strong and fun range weapon; a new weapon with high damage, life steal and a hunger mechanic; a new shadow for the fissures that also gets powered by rifts with counter mechanics to riders; an enviroment danger in form of ickers that block your paths while fighting and a new boss that hunts the player

nope, doesnt tweak caves combat at all

You’re not listening so let me go into deeper details. How many mobs, or hazards can you count *not including the newest update* actually interact with the fact that your using a Beefalo in a Cave?

How many mobs prior to this new update in a cave can buck you off your mount? How many mobs aim for the Rider on the Beefalo instead of aiming at the Beefalo itself?

On the surface a Clockwork Bishop will hit the rider, not the Beefalo, but is that how spitter spiders act in caves? Do bats which can fly attack the rider and not the mount the rider is on? 

Better yet now that cave walls don’t exist anymore and we can now build bridges in caves can bats fly over the void? Can spitter spiders projectiles? can you build a bridge and stand on it while the games Mob AI can’t register your location so things that should DEFINITELY be smart enough to reach you (such as flying bats) can attack you in all directions while your on that bridge including over the void which gives them the advantage over you since you can’t reach them to hit them unless you have ranged weapons?

THATS my point…

I don’t care about whatever super late game shadow rift update crap they added later.

[hoxi]

2 hours ago, Electroely said:

You just walk into the attack if you do that. The direction the counter-attack comes from is random, and walking diagonally away doesn't work. Out of the 8 directions you could choose, 6 of them are going to get you hit. The odds are definitely not in your favor. I can dodge them consistently when I can see the horns and I stand still to react to whichever direction they're coming from, but that doesn't work when you can't see the horns at all. It also doesn't work when fighting multiple shadows because you can't stand still.

And then add latency into the mix and it's basically purely a gamble at most, because reacting on time is not even an option.

[Arcwell]

29 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

1. On the surface a Clockwork Bishop will hit the rider, not the Beefalo, but is that how spitter spiders act in caves?
2. Do bats which can fly attack the rider and not the mount the rider is on? 
3. Better yet now that cave walls don’t exist anymore and we can now build bridges in caves can bats fly over the void?
4. Can spitter spiders projectiles?
5. can you build a bridge and stand on it while the games Mob AI can’t register your location so things that should DEFINITELY be smart enough to reach you (such as flying bats) can attack you in all directions while your on that bridge including over the void which gives them the advantage over you since you can’t reach them to hit them unless you have ranged weapons?

1. Yes, spitters behave the same as bishops.
2. No, bats attack the beefalo (and personally I don't see why bats would be inclined to attack the player when the beefalo is the one attacking them).
3. Yes, however bats will only fly across void if it's a small gap in front of their target (~1-2 void tiles). Otherwise their pathfinding prefers solid ground. This applies to Lurking Nightmares as well.
4. Yes, spitters can shoot across void. Their range is not very big to begin with, though.
5. No, mobs regard bridges as regular ground and can walk on it without issue (including moles, who probably shouldn't be able to)

[SilverSpoon]

1 hour ago, dst_lover said:

5 a lot of people love and enjoy the game when its difficult 

I think most player are enjoying the "Difficult" of Lurking Nightmare and Great Depth Worm which were added in this update.

What is unpopular is the "Unfairness", like "huge spike in difficulty".

Lurking Nightmare launches unfairly attacks on players before the lift that are impossible to avoid depending on the equipment, situation, and server ping, and the Great Depths Worm unfairly deals 392 instakill level damage to players, unfairly stunlocks players for 14xn damage, unfairly devours players' items, and unfairly destroys structures.

[lowercase skye]

9 hours ago, Sacco said:

Yesterday i did a ruins clearing post rift, i had a not maxed shadow maul, void cowl and a bone armor, and i have to say, it was pretty easy, even with lurking nightmares.

I specified in my post that my issue with them is their pre-rifts incarnation. You won't be doing your first ruins visit with a shadow maul, void cowl and bone armor.

[Sacco]

13 minutes ago, finn from human said:

I specified in my post that my issue with them is their pre-rifts incarnation. You won't be doing your first ruins visit with a shadow maul, void cowl and bone armor.

pre rift lurking nightmares are pretty easy to fight honestly, i tried fighting them with other shadow creatures too, and they weren't that big of a deal, mostly because sometimes after you hit them they just vanish for a couple of seconds

[Well-met]

10 hours ago, SilverSpoon said:

Please stop stalking and harassing me.

It is wise to learn to ignore certain users, they post so often it's very easy to recognize the names

they'll quote and reply to literally everything anyone posts so it's best to not read it and move on

@op i think those new shadows are fair and klei has been learning how to make combat more forgiving for years now

 

[Waywarbler]

I think their health is a bit too high when combined with all the teleporting and counter-attacking. Most of the time I fight them they despawn before I can actually kill them (though this is also because they don't seem to linger after the nightmare phase ends like the other nightmare creatures).

Other than that, I don't really have an issue with them, as they're pretty rare and slow-moving pre-rift. I do agree the counter attack should maybe be a bit slower so that latency isn't as much of a problem.

[Lovens]

I think their health pre-rifts should be tuned down. It's so frustrating to spend time kitting and killing it and then watch it despawn when it's one or two hits away from dying. I would also love if there was a restriction on how many can spawn nearby. One or two are fine but I got four aggro on me in a small room once. This is pretty much impossible to fight, especially with the knockback attack that locks you in a falling/getting up animation for a few moments. 

[SilverSpoon]

8 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Lurking nightmare has 850 HP, 50 damage (+20 planar when rift is on), impossible to dodge attack with higher ping, can knock you off the beefalo.

Crawling horror has 300 HP, 20 damage and slow attack speed, Terrorbeak has 400 HP and 50 damage.

For a curious comparison, right after the "Insanity Update" arguably the most difficult version of the original Don't Starve, Creeping Horrors had 800 HP and 40 damage, Terror Beaks had 300 HP and 80 damage.

The Lurking Nightmare has stats that are more than half the sum of those two, has attacks that are difficult to avoid, and mixed in with a large group of other nightmare creatures seems unbalanced, even based on past trends.

[RozeMeteor]

I gonna be honest, it's hard blame klei for doing mistakes when trying balance the game, we should watch our tongues or fingertips better to say so. We asked for those things being pre rift content i'm not going angaist the op cuz i wanna see it be a bit more tame on it's counters as well, my point is, words have power let's be more carefull with them.

[Echsrick]

4 minutes ago, RozeMeteor said:

I gonna be honest, it's hard blame klei for doing mistakes when trying balance the game, we should watch our tongues or fingertips better to say so. We asked for those things being pre rift content i'm not going angaist the op cuz i wanna see it be a bit more tame on it's counters as well, my point is, words have power let's be more carefull with them.

who asked for it being pre rift? because i sure dit not

[Mike23Ua]

20 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

For a curious comparison, right after the "Insanity Update" arguably the most difficult version of the original Don't Starve, Creeping Horrors had 800 HP and 40 damage, Terror Beaks had 300 HP and 80 damage.

The Lurking Nightmare has stats that are more than half the sum of those two, has attacks that are difficult to avoid, and mixed in with a large group of other nightmare creatures seems unbalanced, even based on past trends.

I don’t want to get into a massively too long didn’t read debate here but there is ALOT of content in DST that is highly unbalanced.

And I mean that in the terms of the expected difficulty levels are either too high or too low for the point of the game your playing.

This boils down to Health of Enemy, Damage of Enemy, And rather or not it spawns endless minions to spam you who have their own health bars to deal with.

I don’t care what anyone has to say I honestly do not think that anyone playing the game on “Relaxed Mode” should still have to fight a 27,500hp Dragonfly Boss.

I’ll take that thought to my grave with me.

[RozeMeteor]

19 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

who asked for it being pre rift? because i sure dit not

[Waywarbler]

21 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

who asked for it being pre rift? because i sure dit not

I'm pretty sure people expressed disappointment at the Lurking Nightmare NOT being pre-rift.

[Echsrick]

15 minutes ago, Waywarbler said:

I'm pretty sure people expressed disappointment at the Lurking Nightmare NOT being pre-rift.

i wonder, people who actualy played the beta and actualy interacted with said thing? because now we are gettin the opposide of wanting it to be pre rift because of balance issues

[Mike23Ua]

10 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

i wonder, people who actualy played the beta and actualy interacted with said thing? because now we are gettin the opposide of wanting it to be pre rift because of balance issues

Does that even matter? I mean Klei has to be smart enough to release their content OUTSIDE of a limited and small fraction of players in a Beta onto a Public branch across all console platforms so they can get feedback from a large group of players right??

[arubaro]

12 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

i wonder, people who actualy played the beta and actualy interacted with said thing? because now we are gettin the opposide of wanting it to be pre rift because of balance issues

Some people might not want it to be pre rift. For me is the perfect addition to ruins. Something fresh and challenging to compensate the power we got through the years. The ruins are the place with the best rewards

Getting affinity abilities before rifts like planar entities companions, aoe blast, inmunity to shadow creatures, extra 30% damage to lunar or shadow creatures? is okey

getting a not at all incredibly overtuned shadow? No, god

[Maxil20]

3 hours ago, Lovens said:

I think their health pre-rifts should be tuned down. It's so frustrating to spend time kitting and killing it and then watch it despawn when it's one or two hits away from dying.

I personally think this is moreso a problem with how the ruins nightmares work in general, since all of them suffer from this. I would much prefer if there was a mechanic in place to prevent shadow despawns during the dawn phase if a player has recently attacked them. That way, you don’t feel cheated out of potential loot from it randomly vaporizing out of existence because it felt like it at one moment.