[Easy AFW] It should not be allowed to build structures inside the Atrium. Just another exploit.

[dst_lover]

13 minutes ago, grm9 said:

???

why do you think that you know what i think's fun and what'sn't

you were talking about a 2nd kill, so you'd need to wait for 20 days after doing the 1st and that's enough for CC quest line

nah i'd compare cheese to most efficient cheeseless strat because your complaint was some one killing a boss before you so you'd need to use the most efficient strat for that to not be possible to do without cheese but cheese's worse in comparison to most efficient strat so either some one can't do some thing faster because of using cheese or some one could do some thing before you even without cheese

not necessarily, there're no cheeses on the wiki iirc and they should add a clue about how to spawn FW instead of removing cheese

you can't cheat without a rule and the point was that figuring a cheese set up out and setting it up in some cases's fun

i already said why that'd be much worse

1 it’s not fun for me and most people if I work hard for something and the somebody in the same server cheated it’s annoyed me and it’s ruin my fun

2 U will do the Perl quest and fight crab king and celestial champion and the clean the rift in 20 days are u joking?

3 you can’t read or what in my first point i was saying that people who uses exploit are two type one how are not skilled enough to fight the boss normally or 2 who use things like exploit to gain advantage in the game if somebody cheats in chess for example even if he didn’t use the strongest hack or exploits in the world just by him cheating and being batter then an average player this is not allowed if u play with mid dst players that they need weather pain , that doesn’t mean u can use exploit because u are using it on a world that the skill level of the players they are in are worse then your exploit and what you are doing is cheating a boss and skipping because u don’t have the resources or the skill to win against him

[grm9]

Just now, dst_lover said:

1 it’s not fun for me and most people if I work hard for something and the somebody in the same server cheated it’s annoyed me and it’s ruin my fun

no, you're simply jealous and that's bad, you should do some thing with that instead of complaining

1 minute ago, dst_lover said:

2 U will do the Perl quest and fight crab king and celestial champion and the clean the rift in 20 days are u joking?

you can do CC quest line before a 20 days timer'll end but i forgot about needing to wait for 15 days for a bright shade

1 minute ago, dst_lover said:

3 you can’t read or what in my first point i was saying that people who uses exploit are two type one how are not skilled enough to fight the boss normally or 2 who use things like exploit to gain advantage in the game if somebody cheats in chess for example even if he didn’t use the strongest hack or exploits in the world just by him cheating and being batter then an average player this is not allowed if u play with mid dst players that they need weather pain , that doesn’t mean u can use exploit because u are using it on a world that the skill level of the players they are in are worse then your exploit and what you are doing is cheating a boss and skipping because u don’t have the resources or the skill to win against him

why do you care about how much skill other people got and want to prevent people that you think got not enough of it for some thing from getting some thing

[dst_lover]

Just now, grm9 said:

no, you're simply jealous and that's bad, you should do some thing with that instead of complaining

you can do CC quest line before a 20 days timer'll end but i forgot about needing to wait for 15 days for a bright shade

why do you care about how much skill other people got and want to prevent people that you think got not enough of it for some thing from getting some thing

If I was in a server for 100 days somebody if somebody enter the server and in a matter of 20 he have loot batter then my not by luck or hardwork or skill but by cheating this is annoying and I am not jealous of a cheater 

2 wow you forgot so at the end of the day u can say the exploit way is the stronger 

3 if somebody works hard and farm gunpowder and kill the AFW even if he doesn’t know how to fight him normally he deserves the loot because he work hard on it but if you are not a good player and can’t kill the AFW and u are so lazy and don’t went to get batter at the game or farm gunpowder or ask for help you don’t deserve the loot in the server 

[grm9]

Just now, dst_lover said:

2 wow you forgot so at the end of the day u can say the exploit way is the stronger 

no, because doing it minimal gear's still faster and more efficient

1 minute ago, dst_lover said:

If I was in a server for 100 days somebody if somebody enter the server and in a matter of 20 he have loot batter then my not by luck or hardwork or skill but by cheating this is annoying and I am not jealous of a cheater 

you're jealous in that scenario

1 minute ago, dst_lover said:

3 if somebody works hard and farm gunpowder and kill the AFW even if he doesn’t know how to fight him normally he deserves the loot because he work hard on it but if you are not a good player and can’t kill the AFW and u are so lazy and don’t went to get batter at the game or farm gunpowder or ask for help you don’t deserve the loot in the server 

that's just pointless elitism

[dst_lover]

12 minutes ago, grm9 said:

no, because doing it minimal gear's still faster and more efficient

you're jealous in that scenario

that's just pointless elitism

1 then why then uses exploit and care about if it’s worse then peek dst players ? because you are not peek that why people use things like that because in term of there level it’s more affected don’t act stupid 

and u are a cheater and I will still call so they remove all your cheating methods 

No this is called fairness people who work hard are the one who deserve the loot 

[grm9]

10 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

1 then why then uses exploit and care about if it’s worse then peek dst players ? because you are not peek that why people use things like that because in term of there level it’s more affected don’t act stupid 

how does that affect them

10 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

and u are a cheater and I will still call so they remove all your cheating methods 

i don't even use cheese for FW, i only don't want it to get removed so that people that don't like the fight won't get forced into doing it and complain

11 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

No this is called fairness people who work hard are the one who deserve the loot 

that's elitism considering that loot's infinite and you don't lose any thing from them getting it

[dst_lover]

8 minutes ago, grm9 said:

how does that affect them

i don't even use cheese for FW, i only don't want it to get removed so that people that don't like the fight won't get forced into doing it and complain

that's elitism considering that loot's infinite and you don't lose any thing from them getting it

1 If I was in a server for 100 days somebody if somebody enter the server and in a matter of 20 he have loot batter then my not by luck or hardwork or skill but by cheating this ruin other people fun

2 this does not help anything but make some problems hidden inside other problems 

3 that not the point if he work hard just like ervery body else that fine too but if he cheat thorough it that when i have problem with it, cheating in public server just because I went to skip that or I don’t to farm or any thing like that is just annoying 

[grm9]

4 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

1 If I was in a server for 100 days somebody if somebody enter the server and in a matter of 20 he have loot batter then my not by luck or hardwork or skill but by cheating this ruin other people fun

how

4 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

2 this does not help anything but make some problems hidden inside other problems 

what problems

4 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

3 that not the point if he work hard just like ervery body else that fine too but if he cheat thorough it that what I have problem , cheating in public server just because I went to skip that or I don’t to farm or any thing like that is just annoying 

why and how does them doing that negatively affect you

[dst_lover]

8 minutes ago, grm9 said:

how

what problems

why and how does them doing that affect you

because he cheated most of people hate cheating in any game 

2 are you kidding read your own post you said u only defending this cheating so they will not complain about any boss that they doesn’t like and that doesn’t solves anything it’s even making everything worse 
3 because it reduces the value of our loot by gatting it without hardwork or skill , you only cheating through it

[grm9]

8 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

because he cheated most of people hate cheating in any game 

why

8 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

2 are you kidding read your own post you said u only defending this cheating so they will not complain about any boss that they doesn’t like and that doesn’t solves anything it’s even making everything worse 

no, that simply allows them to skip a thing that they don't like

8 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

3 because it reduces the value of our loot by gatting it without hardwork or skill , you only cheating through it

you get 122 hp from jelly beans not depending on if some one also cheesed BQ and got jelly beans too or no

[dst_lover]

45 minutes ago, grm9 said:

why

no, that simply allows them to skip a thing that they don't like

you get 122 hp from jelly beans not depending on if some one also cheesed BQ and got jelly beans too or no

1 I don’t think you will ever understand my feelings and my opinion on this topic but I will say it one last time if someone enter a server that we all work hard on it just so he cheat and get the same loot is like he saying all your hard work is for nothing if somebody can get it this easily by cheating and I don’t care if he did this in his server , I only care if he did this on a server that I work hard on it 

2 they can do this by mods but at the end of the day if they went to use they’re exploit on a public server you are cheating and you are lazy and annoying 

3 you are kidding me my point it’s not that its reduced the value literally you are acting stupid 

4 when will you answer me is the toadstool exploit should be removed or not !

 

[xDarkSoul18x]

This is one of those "So don't do it" things. This game is not an E-Sport and people in the competitive scene (Speedruns etc) have glitch/exploit and Legit categories. Why should I not be able to build wherever I want just because if you build in a VERY specific way it might exploit something. I really don't get why people care so much. Like if you use cheats in GTA San Andreas; Who cares? Someone thinks you used cheats? Who cares. You know if you did or didn't. I didn't use Lureplant cheese before, I won't use this cheese now. I am now rather interested in spicing up these areas of the game with some decorations now though. I didn't even think to build in these places lol. Although I do like to make a little hootch outside the ruins. 

[dst_lover]

13 minutes ago, xDarkSoul18x said:

This is one of those "So don't do it" things. This game is not an E-Sport and people in the competitive scene (Speedruns etc) have glitch/exploit and Legit categories. Why should I not be able to build wherever I want just because if you build in a VERY specific way it might exploit something. I really don't get why people care so much. Like if you use cheats in GTA San Andreas; Who cares? Someone thinks you used cheats? Who cares. You know if you did or didn't. I didn't use Lureplant cheese before, I won't use this cheese now. I am now rather interested in spicing up these areas of the game with some decorations now though. I didn't even think to build in these places lol. Although I do like to make a little hootch outside the ruins. 

The point is nobody care if u use exploit or mods or any types of cheating in your world it’s become problem when you cheat on a public server or somebody server without asking their permission

[Evelo]

heavy sigh

Again with the "If you don't like it, don't do it" arguments. Is the example used by Cruv kind of weird and very similar to Dragonfly's Lavae? Yea. Could it be changed to make it not possible much like the Dfly Lavae? Also yea. But should it? Well that's debatable. Simply ignoring it if it is the general accepted strategy (like what was seen with the lureplant cheese) causes developers to ignore it themselves as they are okay with this type of behavior from players, or change it because that is not the intended experience they want from their playerbase.

Simply addressing this issue is fine and I am glad Cruv brought about this tidbit of knowledge. I just think the method of delivery is off personally. Simply stating "this is a thing you can do. just letting you know Klei." is great. (granted people will generally go anyway to argue about whether or not it should exist as we see here.) Bringing up a concern is important and why I detest the "If you don't like it, don't do it" argument especially in video games is illustrated quite nicely by this example I found from Reddit that mirrors my issues perfectly,

"I think it depends on what we are talking about. If it's a TV show, I can hate it and couldn't care less if it keeps going on. Many people will be happy a show is 'finally' canceled that they hate. I won't watch it and I don't care. For those instances, it's fine to hate it, it's fine to express it, but it's also perfectly fine for it to exist.

It gets bad when it's something that effects you. Michigan has legal fireworks. People in my neighborhood shoot them off June-September and it's typically well into the night since it doesn't get dark until well after 9. I can't just not buy fireworks since they still effect me. I'm allowed to be annoyed I'm woken up at 11pm when I work in the morning and it isn't on me to buy headphones to make it reasonable.

So I think it depends on how much it impacts life of people who want nothing to do with it." - From AdeptIndependent6859 on this thread.

We all in this sense "live" in the game that is DST. Just because someone is utilizing a cheese or exploit does not mean it isn't affecting me because metas develop even in non-competative pve games. The human mind wants to fit in. If a player sees a lot of people on Youtube, Twitch, Discord, forums, etc. engaging in these kinds of behaviors and strategies then they are likely to do it else there will be a cognitive dissonance with what they see and what they do. It is easier to conform and engage in these behaviors than it is to shut out all interaction within the community.

[xDarkSoul18x]

2 hours ago, Evelo said:

heavy sigh

Again with the "If you don't like it, don't do it" arguments. Is the example used by Cruv kind of weird and very similar to Dragonfly's Lavae? Yea. Could it be changed to make it not possible much like the Dfly Lavae? Also yea. But should it? Well that's debatable. Simply ignoring it if it is the general accepted strategy (like what was seen with the lureplant cheese) causes developers to ignore it themselves as they are okay with this type of behavior from players, or change it because that is not the intended experience they want from their playerbase.

Simply addressing this issue is fine and I am glad Cruv brought about this tidbit of knowledge. I just think the method of delivery is off personally. Simply stating "this is a thing you can do. just letting you know Klei." is great. (granted people will generally go anyway to argue about whether or not it should exist as we see here.) Bringing up a concern is important and why I detest the "If you don't like it, don't do it" argument especially in video games is illustrated quite nicely by this example I found from Reddit that mirrors my issues perfectly,

We all in this sense "live" in the game that is DST. Just because someone is utilizing a cheese or exploit does not mean it isn't affecting me because metas develop even in non-competative pve games. The human mind wants to fit in. If a player sees a lot of people on Youtube, Twitch, Discord, forums, etc. engaging in these kinds of behaviors and strategies then they are likely to do it else there will be a cognitive dissonance with what they see and what they do. It is easier to conform and engage in these behaviors than it is to shut out all interaction within the community.

I think it's really a bit of a false equivalency that reddit post and doesn't serve relevance in the game here. I understand the argument and know all too well how certain "metas" can change communities, but that is a people problem not a dev problem. It is not the devs fault that people have created these things and communities themselves. For example, I have a friend that hates when games have "Adjustable settings" or Cheat menus. He wants them out of games, he says he gets to tempted to cheat. So, let me get this straight; You want something removed from the game that can very well offer other experiences and in some games even be used as a way to fix bugs and glitches because YOU don't have the self-control to not use them? It's a completely ignorant stance IMO. (I fell through the map playing the new Ark, and because of "Cheats" I was able to fly under the map and get my stuff, not lose hours of progress because of a bug, a non-intended experience). 

I used to be on other sites/forums back in the early 2000s and it was amazing to meet and discuss things about games, mechanics, little tips and tricks and just converse about the game, etc. It's a community in itself, and I've played games differently based off these perspectives, so it offers a new experience. Still though this is a personal problem and is not a thing any dev can ever fix unless they want to make the game so boring and bland or just homogenize everything like 90% of the games today that do nothing but hold your hand and tell you what you SHOULD be doing not just give you the tools to do what YOU want to do.

It definitely is a difficult thing to digest but once you do it, you'll be fine. It's just about getting out of that mindset and realizing there are so many other people out there like you. They're just quiet and out there playing and enjoying the way they see fit, so you don't see them or hear them. These things are VERY specific, no normal person is doing these things. No normal person decides "Let me bring a lure plant into the last boss of the games arena and have it push me out the map", "Let me place statues all around a fountain so mobs can't hit it". These are things people go out of their way to do so I don't really think manpower should be wasted "Fixing" a problem the community creates. Now obvious things like "wearing a certain armor glitches the fight and makes you god-mode" yes. 

I never think limiting the creativity of players and the game is ever a solution to player-created problems (This post made me want to build a base in the ruins now and spice up the FW arena lol). It would be an endless cycle. People are ALWAYS going to float to metas, people are ALWAYS going to find ways to exploit. In this circumstance it really is just a "Don't use it". When playing with others, again you still have the choice to not play with said people or not benefit from it, most people just don't want to put even the slightest effort and would rather just blame people or devs. 

I just hate how MY experience in a game has to be limited or changed because of other people and problems they create themselves where they don't exist. Anyone that uses mods but has the audacity to talk about "Intended experience" is a hypocrite. If those mods were "intended experiences" they'd be in the game. Just my opinion though. 

[DegenerateFurry]

3 hours ago, Evelo said:

heavy sigh

Again with the "If you don't like it, don't do it" arguments. Is the example used by Cruv kind of weird and very similar to Dragonfly's Lavae? Yea. Could it be changed to make it not possible much like the Dfly Lavae? Also yea. But should it? Well that's debatable. Simply ignoring it if it is the general accepted strategy (like what was seen with the lureplant cheese) causes developers to ignore it themselves as they are okay with this type of behavior from players, or change it because that is not the intended experience they want from their playerbase.

Simply addressing this issue is fine and I am glad Cruv brought about this tidbit of knowledge. I just think the method of delivery is off personally. Simply stating "this is a thing you can do. just letting you know Klei." is great. (granted people will generally go anyway to argue about whether or not it should exist as we see here.) Bringing up a concern is important and why I detest the "If you don't like it, don't do it" argument especially in video games is illustrated quite nicely by this example I found from Reddit that mirrors my issues perfectly,

"I think it depends on what we are talking about. If it's a TV show, I can hate it and couldn't care less if it keeps going on. Many people will be happy a show is 'finally' canceled that they hate. I won't watch it and I don't care. For those instances, it's fine to hate it, it's fine to express it, but it's also perfectly fine for it to exist.

It gets bad when it's something that effects you. Michigan has legal fireworks. People in my neighborhood shoot them off June-September and it's typically well into the night since it doesn't get dark until well after 9. I can't just not buy fireworks since they still effect me. I'm allowed to be annoyed I'm woken up at 11pm when I work in the morning and it isn't on me to buy headphones to make it reasonable.

So I think it depends on how much it impacts life of people who want nothing to do with it." - From AdeptIndependent6859 on this thread.

We all in this sense "live" in the game that is DST. Just because someone is utilizing a cheese or exploit does not mean it isn't affecting me because metas develop even in non-competative pve games. The human mind wants to fit in. If a player sees a lot of people on Youtube, Twitch, Discord, forums, etc. engaging in these kinds of behaviors and strategies then they are likely to do it else there will be a cognitive dissonance with what they see and what they do. It is easier to conform and engage in these behaviors than it is to shut out all interaction within the community.

This sounds like a you problem. I mean this sincerely: it will be better for your mental health if you don't let peer pressure affect you that easily. You don't have to do stuff just because a handful of other people are doing it or even because most people are doing it. In fact, it's usually more rewarding to do things your own way - I much prefer playing Wormwood as a high-risk combat character rather than a farmer, for example. Is he the optimal pick for combat? Certainly not, but that doesn't mean I can't have fun doing it that way. 

[GimplyGoose]

On 9/12/2024 at 3:19 AM, Cruvimaster said:

 

Cool AFW method. I probably won't use it because it would cost too many rocks.

[Evelo]

8 hours ago, xDarkSoul18x said:

- snip -

Huh, very respectful and well pointed erm. point. I still dislike the argument most of the time but I think this is what I needed to actually change my mind. Thank you for that, genuinely.

 

8 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I much prefer playing Wormwood as a high-risk combat character rather than a farmer,

Same! Though I do both granted because I just like farming in DST.

[00petar00]

15 hours ago, grm9 said:

how're they ruining your fun? becoming angry and annoyed because of some one getting same thing that you got through spending less effort on some thing's jealousy and you should stop being jealous instead of complaining

I have already figured out these players, they are often jealous and want there to be a skill requirement when it doesn't exist in DST as some characters are simply much better and can melt bosses or have an easier time doing so. Why should catapults be allowed in FW arena but not pillars? They can't answer that without making Winona players mad. 

Everyone should be able to kill bosses in any way they want and bugs shouldn't be fixed if someone can't use them without putting thought or doing specific actions, players that want to fight FW normally shouldn't be affected by bugs.

If all of these methods get removed as klei has started doing you'll see FW and every other boss getting nerfed heavily to allow players to kill them without these methods, that's why you are advocating for these to stay in the game which is very logical but these players are jealous and much worse at the game than you so they want cheese removed and won't mind boss nerfs.

14 hours ago, dst_lover said:

1 If I was in a server for 100 days somebody if somebody enter the server and in a matter of 20 he have loot batter then my not by luck or hardwork or skill but by cheating this ruin other people fun

It doesn't matter as this is a sandbox game and not a competitive multiplayer. When someone cheeses a boss while you are terrible at killing them fast enough without using said methods you get mad. @grm9can kill bosses faster while players that cheese them will take much more time.

I was right from the start when I called players that want most of these cheese methods removed jealous because you are 100% showing your jealousy.

12 hours ago, dst_lover said:

The point is nobody care if u use exploit or mods or any types of cheating in your world it’s become problem when you cheat on a public server or somebody server without asking their permission

There are already countless client mods that will make me faster at finding specific locations or animation cancelling so its not like you can stop me from "cheating" on your server anyway.

[Anis5240]

19 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

There are already countless client mods that will make me faster at finding specific locations or animation cancelling so its not like you can stop me from "cheating" on your server anyway.

True.

Heck, even the quick drop feature used to be a mod before Klei implemented it for realsies.

[dst_lover]

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

I have already figured out these players, they are often jealous and want there to be a skill requirement when it doesn't exist in DST as some characters are simply much better and can melt bosses or have an easier time doing so. Why should catapults be allowed in FW arena but not pillars? They can't answer that without making Winona players mad. 

Everyone should be able to kill bosses in any way they want and bugs shouldn't be fixed if someone can't use them without putting thought or doing specific actions, players that want to fight FW normally shouldn't be affected by bugs.

If all of these methods get removed as klei has started doing you'll see FW and every other boss getting nerfed heavily to allow players to kill them without these methods, that's why you are advocating for these to stay in the game which is very logical but these players are jealous and much worse at the game than you so they want cheese removed and won't mind boss nerfs.

It doesn't matter as this is a sandbox game and not a competitive multiplayer. When someone cheeses a boss while you are terrible at killing them fast enough without using said methods you get mad. @grm9can kill bosses faster while players that cheese them will take much more time.

I was right from the start when I called players that want most of these cheese methods removed jealous because you are 100% showing your jealousy.

There are already countless client mods that will make me faster at finding specific locations or animation cancelling so its not like you can stop me from "cheating" on your server anyway.

1 you didn’t read my post do you ? I don’t mind playing with any one except cheaters skill isn’t the problem even if you Are good at the game to me that doesn’t matter 

2 yes they are but what you do is not even fighting the boss u only skip him

3 it’s a sandbox  game if u change its settings and when I create my world I enter survival not sandbox 

4 and you all only showing your laziness to people 

5 I play dst on ps4 so u can’t 

[Anis5240]

6 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

I enter survival

Well those game modes are preset by Klei themselves. That counts as a sandbox game.

[dst_lover]

5 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

Well those game modes are preset by Klei themselves. That counts as a sandbox game.

No that not how it’s work 

[Anis5240]

10 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

No that not how it’s work 

Yes it does, dammit. Endless mode is where the portal can be used to revive. Klei put up that preset. Relaxed mode is also the same. PvP mode? Also the same. Wilderness? Also the same.

They all have adjusted world settings that Klei themselves put in. So can you just stop arguing this isn't a sandbox game WHEN YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THE GAME PAGE AND IT CLEARLY SAID "SANDBOX GAME"??????

[dst_lover]

8 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

Yes it does, dammit. Endless mode is where the portal can be used to revive. Klei put up that preset. Relaxed mode is also the same. PvP mode? Also the same. Wilderness? Also the same.

They all have adjusted world settings that Klei themselves put in. So can you just stop arguing this isn't a sandbox game WHEN YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THE GAME PAGE AND IT CLEARLY SAID "SANDBOX GAME"??????

And u can see the game page and it’s survival game the sandbox is only if u played with your settings