New shadow weapon should require unique boss kills, not allowing repeats.

[lowercase skye]

Hi sorry I don't know the name because I didn't catch it on stream. The new shadow lifesteal weapon upgrades as you kill bosses with it, but on the stream they showed an example of this by killing 3 Deerclops. I think it would be cooler if each distinct boss only counted for one kill (if you kill Deerclops you get 1 point, but killing her again doesn't give additional points), so that you have to seek out and kill different ones rather than being able to fully upgrade it with a bunch of repeated Deerclops fights. This could also help push players out of their comfort zone by encouraging fighting bosses that are rarely touched outside of certain playstyles, like the Frostjaw! I just think it would be neat, thematically appropriate, and lead to more interesting gameplay.

[chirsg]

Arbitrary. Let players be accountable for their own play where flexibility is possible. 

I hate poo-pooing on suggestions, but my hand is pushed.

This is how we lost void walking. Because players weren't accountable for their methods of play and their own perspectives.

[Maxposting]

2 minutes ago, chirsg said:

This is how we lost void walking.

Is this true? I thought it got removed because klei didnt want to make the winona bridge let people void walk.

Anyways, I like the suggestion.

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Maxposting said:

Is this true? I thought it got removed because klei didnt want to make the winona bridge let people void walk.

Anyways, I like the suggestion.

No he's been spreading misinformation for a bit now Winona's bridge was indeed the reason void walking got removed.

[lowercase skye]

9 minutes ago, chirsg said:

This is how we lost void walking.

please make your own thread

[july401]

If it needs unique kills, this buff would be more powerful I think. 

[HeatAndRun]

I already can see loads of treeguards spawned from Woodie's idol butchered just to upgrade this weapon..

[july401]

13 minutes ago, HeatAndRun said:

I already can see loads of treeguards spawned from Woodie's idol butchered just to upgrade this weapon..

Nope, Klei added a new tag in scrapbook: "smallgiant"

Treeguards are included. And this weapon can only upgraded by killing "epic"

[Reiko24]

5 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

No he's been spreading misinformation for a bit now Winona's bridge was indeed the reason void walking got removed.

he is becoming the new mike

[chirsg]

You're all naive if you think this is the case. And you all act dismissive by trying to insist that I'm crazy because I see a connection between irrational complaints against voidwalking and it's removal. 

You have to already defeat at minimum, 2 bosses in order to create the maul. Varying the variety of bosses is arbitrary since you may actually be fighting more than one boss with the hatchet in hand. Also, you all fail to realize that fighting bosses with a single weapon at a certain point can be pretty hard. 

50% of the time, a boss dies to gestalts when using enlightened crown. That means you don't earn the boss kill with the maul and you're doomed to kill yet another boss.

What about an unreasonably difficult boss like bee queen? It's not unreasonable for one to use bunnymen and even if you deal 90% of the  damage in theory, the last strike could be dealt by a bunny and you've lost your chance.

 

And what's the reward for killing different bosses with the maul? You kill more bosses with the maul, but more efficiently.

 

 

[lowercase skye]

9 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Also, you all fail to realize that fighting bosses with a single weapon at a certain point can be pretty hard. 

50% of the time, a boss dies to gestalts when using enlightened crown. That means you don't earn the boss kill with the maul and you're doomed to kill yet another boss.

What about an unreasonably difficult boss like bee queen? It's not unreasonable for one to use bunnymen and even if you deal 90% of the  damage in theory, the last strike could be dealt by a bunny and you've lost your chance.

There's already a mechanic in the game that keeps track of a player's participation in a fight like Fuelweaver or Celestial Champion, to make sure that everyone involved in a fight unlocks the alignment perk rather than just the player who does the final blow. If this is so much of a problem then that sort of mechanic could be applied to this weapon, too.

[Juanasdf]

Alternatively, maybe the axe could be upgraded by killing the same boss, but it could gain an extra level if you kill all the different bosses.

Something unique that differs from just dmg or healing like a 10% speedboost or improving its chopping speed

(I'm guessing it chops? I haven't seen it yet)

[gamehun20]

22 minutes ago, Juanasdf said:

(I'm guessing it chops? I haven't seen it yet)

It takes longer to break a tree than glass axe i think

[chirsg]

10 minutes ago, gamehun20 said:

It does a bit more hit to break a tree than glass axe i think

Powercreep. You love to see it. Especially with how abundant glass is in the late game.

I think it's tree chopping power should be weaker than Lucy, but give it the additional utility of mining. 

[gamehun20]

2 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Powercreep. You love to see it. Especially with how abundant glass is in the late game.

I see my sentence was badly worded i fixed it

[chirsg]

Just now, gamehun20 said:

I see my sentence was badly worded i fixed it

oh, ok. 

[Mr Giggio]

7 hours ago, finn from human said:

please make your own thread

He did

It's just he really salty about it right now that all goes towards void walking getting fixed, no matter the subject. In fact, not a good day for the exploiters D: They being really loud over this fact.

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, chirsg said:

You're all naive if you think this is the case. And you all act dismissive by trying to insist that I'm crazy because I see a connection between irrational complaints against voidwalking and it's removal. 

I'm sure it wasn't at all related to the conversation about how Winona should be able to use her bridges in the caves on the forums during her and Wurt's update.

 

2 hours ago, chirsg said:

You have to already defeat at minimum, 2 bosses in order to create the maul. Varying the variety of bosses is arbitrary since you may actually be fighting more than one boss with the hatchet in hand. Also, you all fail to realize that fighting bosses with a single weapon at a certain point can be pretty hard. 

50% of the time, a boss dies to gestalts when using enlightened crown. That means you don't earn the boss kill with the maul and you're doomed to kill yet another boss.

What about an unreasonably difficult boss like bee queen? It's not unreasonable for one to use bunnymen and even if you deal 90% of the  damage in theory, the last strike could be dealt by a bunny and you've lost your chance.

 

And what's the reward for killing different bosses with the maul? You kill more bosses with the maul, but more efficiently.

After opening the rift there won't be 3 different bosses that are easy for someone to kill?

[Cruvimaster]

9 hours ago, finn from human said:

Hi sorry I don't know the name because I didn't catch it on stream. The new shadow lifesteal weapon upgrades as you kill bosses with it, but on the stream they showed an example of this by killing 3 Deerclops. I think it would be cooler if each distinct boss only counted for one kill (if you kill Deerclops you get 1 point, but killing her again doesn't give additional points), so that you have to seek out and kill different ones rather than being able to fully upgrade it with a bunch of repeated Deerclops fights. This could also help push players out of their comfort zone by encouraging fighting bosses that are rarely touched outside of certain playstyles, like the Frostjaw! I just think it would be neat, thematically appropriate, and lead to more interesting gameplay.

This weapon is very powerful. If Klei makes it easier to access, the developers will have to nerf the weapon, specifically the lifesteal.

I prefer it to stay the way it is, and so should you.

1 hour ago, Mr Giggio said:

He did

It's just he really salty about it right now that all goes towards void walking getting fixed, no matter the subject. In fact, not a good day for the exploiters D: They being really loud over this fact.

I see you always defeating AFW before the 30th and without ever needing to use exploid to do so and people complaining here about void and being too lazy to look for Atrium.

[grm9]

25 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

I see you always defeating AFW before the 30th and without ever needing to use exploid to do so and people complaining here about void and being too lazy to look for Atrium

people trying to skip a part of the game that they don't consider as remotely fun? unacceptable, that's truly ruining others' lives even if they might not even know about that happening and that doesn't change almost any thing

[Pcwer]

32 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

This weapon is very powerful. If Klei makes it easier to access, the developers will have to nerf the weapon, specifically the lifesteal.

I prefer it to stay the way it is, and so should you.

What? Wouldn‘t requiring unique boss kills make the weapon‘s full potential harder to access?

 

9 minutes ago, grm9 said:

people trying to skip a part of the game that they don't consider as remotely fun? unacceptable, that's truly ruining others' lives even if they might not even know about that happening and that doesn't change almost any thing

If they want to skip looking for the Atrium they could just use the c_gonext() command instead of complaining about an exploit being patched out in order to make a character‘s skill work as intended.

[grm9]

7 minutes ago, Pcwer said:

If they want to skip looking for the Atrium they could just use the c_gonext() command instead of complaining about an exploit being patched out in order to make a character‘s skill work as intended

doesn't work on pubs, i'm not complaining about it getting patched because i know that there was a reason for that and they didn't just do that out of spite, the problem's people becoming happy because of other people becoming unhappy

[arubaro]

Is more interesting to kill different bosses than repeating few weak ones... that doesnt justify buffing nothing 

[cybers2001]

7 hours ago, chirsg said:

50% of the time, a boss dies to gestalts when using enlightened crown. That means you don't earn the boss kill with the maul and you're doomed to kill yet another boss.

If you're not wearing a Void Cowl while using this then I dunno what to tell you.

Anyway, did some napkin calculations. Going by @Cruvimaster's video, it looks like damage from Maul goes from 60 to 72 with the void cowl.

This means (72 - 60 - 9) * 10 = 30 physical damage, and therefore also 30 planar damage.

For Wolfgang, this makes the Maul inferior to Reaper, since he gets 130 for maul + cowl vs 136 for reaper + cowl.

Presumably, this is balanced around the premise that Maul is a tank-and-spank weapon due to lifesteal, which seems fair, but it also means you're losing the cowl stacks each time you're hit. If your playstyle involves not getting hit, then you'd probably just skip this weapon.

 

Edit 2

Thinking about this further, I may be hasty to write it off. This weapon is skippable if you're Wolfgang fighting non-planar enemies. It does give considerably more planar damage than the reaper, and is tied for brightshade sword, but outscales the brightshade sword with a full-stacked cowl.

[Arcwell]

14 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

Anyway, did some napkin calculations. Going by @Cruvimaster's video, it looks like damage from Maul goes from 60 to 72 with the void cowl.

This means (72 - 60 - 9) * 10 = 30 physical damage, and therefore also 30 planar damage.

For Wolfgang, this makes the Maul inferior to Reaper, since he gets 130 for maul + cowl vs 136 for reaper + cowl.

Not quite, maul still deals more damage with Wolfgang.
Shadow maul and shadow reaper both have identical physical damage stats (38) and void cowl affects both of them in the same way (1.1x physical dmg, +5 planar dmg, and +4-24 planar dmg depending on hitstreak).
The difference in damage between the two is that reaper has base 18 planar damage whereas maul has base 10/14/18/22 planar damage depending on tier.

Here's the full damage calculation for Wolfgang w/planar dmg skills using the maul/reaper w/void cowl at max tier and max hitstreak:

• Reaper: (38 base physical * 2 Wolfgang modifier * 1.1 voidcowl modifier) + (18 base planar + 25 wolfgang bonus + 5 voidcowl bonus + 24 voidcowl hitstreak bonus) = 155.6 total damage
• Maul: (38 base physical * 2 Wolfgang modifier * 1.1 voidcowl modifier) + (22 base planar + 25 wolfgang bonus + 5 voidcowl bonus + 24 voidcowl hitstreak bonus) = 159.6 total damage