Thoughts and ideas about the new DLC

[GodIess]

I like the concept that adds new dls. But at the moment he looks very bad. On the 50th cycle, I completely stopped thinking about the temperature and everything else. The only problems that were quite unpleasant were the constant freezing of water in the pipes, but in another 50 cycles it was solved.

New buildings don't make a lot of sense either.
The snow block is useful only in the very first stages of the game when there are no normal blocks. I didn't use the wood block at all, because when I got it, there was no need to replace the snow blocks, and when it appeared, I already had ordinary blocks. The oxylite holder is generally a strange thing considering that it is best to simply demolish the entire oxylite somewhere below the base so that oxygen rises up, or not to touch the oxylite at all. The only interesting things I've seen are the interactions with whales and other creatures and plants, so far the only things I plan to leave for the late game. Everything else becomes unnecessary after a dozen cycles, especially the furnace when I raise the temperature at the base to a comfortable 20 and outside it everyone will be in suits.

I would definitely like to see more interaction with cold and temperature. Perhaps it could be snowfall that occasionally covered the buildings and they needed to be cleaned or stoves were installed to protect them from this. A sharp change in temperature that would freeze the air (something like the weather, there could be precipitation, cooling and darkening), they would have a temporary nature, for example, if the temperature of the air at the base is 20*, then during cooling it drops to 0 and if in several cycles it rises to 20 then after the end of cooling, the temperature will already be 40. This would make it necessary to adapt to changes and solve problems.

Also I think adding more wooden buildings and interacting with it could add a fire system and the chance that this building could catch fire. for example, a ladder made of wood near the stove has a 40% chance that it will catch fire and duplicates need to put out the fire. These can be both ordinary snowballs that are thrown into the flame and carbon dioxide fire extinguishers or special systems through which carbon dioxide gas or water is supplied through pipes to extinguish the fire. From automation, you can add fire detectors, and buildings with a sufficiently high temperature also get a chance to catch fire.

Zones of winter winds. In such areas (perhaps it will be some special geyser, it is necessary to make some means of heating at every step, because the copycat can freeze quite quickly and turn into an ice statue. Or it can be attributed to weather phenomena. For example, the winds will act everywhere, the copycats must move quickly enough and cannot do without heat for a long time, buildings that have a temperature below the recommended temperature will stop working during a storm

it would also be good to have a heating system for the water, for example, it could be a furnace through which the water passes and gets a little heat so that when it is cleaned or something, it does not turn into ice. Also, I think a good addition would be the addition of interesting mechanics for foxes, they could hide food in the snow thereby keeping it fresh, or some other resources. And domesticated foxes could, on the contrary, store resources in storage.

That's all my ideas so far on how to improve this dls. Write your thoughts and what you think about my list

[MiniDeathStar]

1 hour ago, GodIess said:

The snow block is useful only in the very first stages of the game when there are no normal blocks.

It's also useful in the later stages of the game as a quick building material in the ice biomes. But that's OK. Plenty of other buildings are made obsolete in the later stages of the game.

1 hour ago, GodIess said:

I didn't use the wood block at all, because when I got it, there was no need to replace the snow blocks, and when it appeared, I already had ordinary blocks.

The wood block insulates better and has a strong decor aura. It's superior to the normal block in every way, except that it burns at 600°C.

1 hour ago, GodIess said:

The oxylite holder is generally a strange thing considering that it is best to simply demolish the entire oxylite somewhere below the base so that oxygen rises up, or not to touch the oxylite at all.

I really like the oxylite sconce as a quick way to bring some oxygen when digging a new area, and to oxygenate a rocket capsule while keeping a stockpile of oxylite in a storage tile.

1 hour ago, GodIess said:

Everything else becomes unnecessary after a dozen cycles, especially the furnace when I raise the temperature at the base to a comfortable 20 and outside it everyone will be in suits.

I mean, yes. There is more than one way to deal with a problem, that's what makes this game so good. If you have the research and the power and the materials, you *can* make an air conditioned base and keep everything else in suit areas. That is a choice you have.

You can also choose to keep your living areas warm with this very small, very cheap building, and not worry about making big layout changes on the spot, or shove your dupes in hazmat suits whenever they have to groom a critter or pick an apple. There are advantages and disadvantages to either approach.

What I don't understand is why you are asking for more cold interactions when you actively refuse to engage with the ones already in place? The DLC gives you a new playstyle of keeping a cold base, with all those buildings and mechanics to encourage that playstyle, and you ignore them in favour of making an insulated brick. What good would more cold mechanics do if you just throw in a heater and some insulation to negate them entirely? In fact, having more cold hazards would literally just make the air conditioned base + atmo suits more appealing and basically force you into that playstyle.

1 hour ago, GodIess said:

it would also be good to have a heating system for the water, for example, it could be a furnace through which the water passes and gets a little heat so that when it is cleaned or something, it does not turn into ice. Also, I think a good addition would be the addition of interesting mechanics for foxes, they could hide food in the snow thereby keeping it fresh, or some other resources. And domesticated foxes could, on the contrary, store resources in storage.

 

Duplicant pee comes out at 37°C, so if you use insulated pipes and filter that water and store it in a reservoir on top of insulated tiles, you will not have freezing issues. You can also keep the bathrooms warm.

As for the floxes, I wouldn't be opposed to having a mechanic for them in addition to their shearable horns, but food preservation is hardly an issue when the map is deep frozen and when the basic food (pikeapples) doesn't spoil until you cook it. Floxes that act like Sweepy bots would be interesting, but not superuseful I think, considering they have low temperature requirements and you can't just put them somewhere and have them sweep stuff. Also that's what the biobots and sweepies are for.

Honestly I think floxes are fine. They are low maintenance, they give free wood and dirt, and are an OK source of raw eggs for cooking. Giving them extra mechanics would also have to make them more high maintenance to balance them, and I don't think I'd like that. We have plenty of fussy critters, let us also have some more that are easy to look after.

[GodIess]

33 minutes ago, MiniDeathStar said:

It's also useful in the later stages of the game as a quick building material in the ice biomes. But that's OK. Plenty of other buildings are made obsolete in the later stages of the game.

The wood block insulates better and has a strong decor aura. It's superior to the normal block in every way, except that it burns at 600°C.

I really like the oxylite sconce as a quick way to bring some oxygen when digging a new area, and to oxygenate a rocket capsule while keeping a stockpile of oxylite in a storage tile.

I mean, yes. There is more than one way to deal with a problem, that's what makes this game so good. If you have the research and the power and the materials, you *can* make an air conditioned base and keep everything else in suit areas. That is a choice you have.

You can also choose to keep your living areas warm with this very small, very cheap building, and not worry about making big layout changes on the spot, or shove your dupes in hazmat suits whenever they have to groom a critter or pick an apple. There are advantages and disadvantages to either approach.

What I don't understand is why you are asking for more cold interactions when you actively refuse to engage with the ones already in place? The DLC gives you a new playstyle of keeping a cold base, with all those buildings and mechanics to encourage that playstyle, and you ignore them in favour of making an insulated brick. What good would more cold mechanics do if you just throw in a heater and some insulation to negate them entirely? In fact, having more cold hazards would literally just make the air conditioned base + atmo suits more appealing and basically force you into that playstyle.

Duplicant pee comes out at 37°C, so if you use insulated pipes and filter that water and store it in a reservoir on top of insulated tiles, you will not have freezing issues. You can also keep the bathrooms warm.

As for the floxes, I wouldn't be opposed to having a mechanic for them in addition to their shearable horns, but food preservation is hardly an issue when the map is deep frozen and when the basic food (pikeapples) doesn't spoil until you cook it. Floxes that act like Sweepy bots would be interesting, but not superuseful I think, considering they have low temperature requirements and you can't just put them somewhere and have them sweep stuff. Also that's what the biobots and sweepies are for.

Honestly I think floxes are fine. They are low maintenance, they give free wood and dirt, and are an OK source of raw eggs for cooking. Giving them extra mechanics would also have to make them more high maintenance to balance them, and I don't think I'd like that. We have plenty of fussy critters, let us also have some more that are easy to look after.

I agree with some points, but I would like to add the following:

The game does not provide any interaction with the cold. We simply appear in a cold biome and get a few buildings to not feel the presence of cold. I suggest more interaction with the cold so that the cold is more dangerous over time even if you have already heated the base and have suits. A weather system would be an interesting addition

So the water from the toilets comes out warm, but the water from the sinks comes out very cold, and even the stove nearby does not solve the problem 100%, I cycle 70 to repair the damn pipe at the outlet of the purifier. There are probably tons of 3 igneous rock.

As for floxes, they have an advantage over sweeps in that they are more mobile and can be drawn into a new biome and they will collect resources in 1 pile without the need to draw power there and somehow think about how to collect resources

[Carib94]

21 minutes ago, MiniDeathStar said:

I mean, yes. There is more than one way to deal with a problem, that's what makes this game so good. If you have the research and the power and the materials, you *can* make an air conditioned base and keep everything else in suit areas. That is a choice you have.

You can also choose to keep your living areas warm with this very small, very cheap building, and not worry about making big layout changes on the spot, or shove your dupes in hazmat suits whenever they have to groom a critter or pick an apple. There are advantages and disadvantages to either approach.

What I don't understand is why you are asking for more cold interactions when you actively refuse to engage with the ones already in place? The DLC gives you a new playstyle of keeping a cold base, with all those buildings and mechanics to encourage that playstyle, and you ignore them in favour of making an insulated brick. What good would more cold mechanics do if you just throw in a heater and some insulation to negate them entirely? In fact, having more cold hazards would literally just make the air conditioned base + atmo suits more appealing and basically force you into that playstyle.

This is a case of to each their own. Players choose how they wanna play the game. Their are players that try something new or different on their colonies, and their are players who just play doing the same thing every colony only with small tweaks.

[Gurgel]

1 hour ago, MiniDeathStar said:

I mean, yes. There is more than one way to deal with a problem, that's what makes this game so good. If you have the research and the power and the materials, you *can* make an air conditioned base and keep everything else in suit areas. That is a choice you have.

You can also choose to keep your living areas warm with this very small, very cheap building, and not worry about making big layout changes on the spot, or shove your dupes in hazmat suits whenever they have to groom a critter or pick an apple. There are advantages and disadvantages to either approach.

What I don't understand is why you are asking for more cold interactions when you actively refuse to engage with the ones already in place? The DLC gives you a new playstyle of keeping a cold base, with all those buildings and mechanics to encourage that playstyle, and you ignore them in favour of making an insulated brick. What good would more cold mechanics do if you just throw in a heater and some insulation to negate them entirely? In fact, having more cold hazards would literally just make the air conditioned base + atmo suits more appealing and basically force you into that playstyle.

I think we have two types of players here:

1. (The majority): Yay, new challenges and new colony designs to be found and optimized! Exactly the right thing!

2. (A vocal minority): What is this? I am going to ignore all new possibilities and just build my standard thing! And then I am going to complain about my decision.

I mostly have stopped listening to group 2. Their issue is not with the DLC, but with their style of approaching it. 

[Tenedas]

22 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

I think we have two types of players here:

1. (The majority): Yay, new challenges and new colony designs to be found and optimized! Exactly the right thing!

2. (A vocal minority): What is this? I am going to ignore all new possibilities and just build my standard thing! And then I am going to complain about my decision.

I mostly have stopped listening to group 2. Their issue is not with the DLC, but with their style of approaching it. 

I understand group 2 can be annoying, i consider my self to be part of group 2 tho.

I would give you an hint to at least understand the perspective:

The whole game we literally fight the heat, thats the whole point of the game to not lose we need to fight heat.

The expectations of naming something "frosty" can be misinterpreted or just full of "hope" to have a real new challange to face which would be fight frost, as we fought heat.

Instead we got some toys to play with and close different resource loop, and don't get me wrong i am really excited of that too and my money are already there(i am here to write waiting for the dlc to release)

So people who get vocal doesn't have a play style problem, they are just frustrated by the missed opportunity to have something truly good. Yes klei announced change of paradigm and so on, still people have to try share their opinion, that's why we have forums.

Will group 2 be the majority or not time.will tell and wont be the numbers of sales on this DLC to indicate that but probably the sale of the "next"

[Gurgel]

I stand by my analysis. Some examples with 10's of postings just complaining and trying pressure tactics to get the one specific issue they focus on "fixed" is not a problem with the game or the DLC. We have also seen this behaviour here countless times. Fortunately, Klei does not focus on who screams loudest. 

[hydragyro]

Ideally, the new stuff should be attractive enough that players are naturally inclined to use it, rather than using it for no other reason than because it is new.

There are a few things in this DLC with some real potential; new (and viable!) sources of oxygen and early-game plastic, for example. But as a whole, it's not as impactful as something like the (free!) "Hot Shots" update, which added: geotuners, conduction panels, two new room types with bonuses (the laboratory and the private bedroom), the mysterious hermit story trait, and the cosmetic skin system. These are features that complimented what was already there, and they added value to all parts of the game, not just the beginning.

I've seen a lot of thoughtful, constructive criticism on this forum, and I don't think it helps anyone to suggest that the players making these critiques are just playing the game wrong.

[evilcat19xx]

1 hour ago, Tenedas said:

Will group 2 be the majority or not time.will tell and wont be the numbers of sales on this DLC to indicate that but probably the sale of the "next"

Well said. I will buy the content pack today, but I am still unsure who the primary target for this release is.

36 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

Some examples with 10's of postings just complaining and trying pressure tactics to get the one specific issue they focus on "fixed" is not a problem with the game or the DLC.

If there are tens of postings, maybe they are not just the vocal minority. I see many instances of constructive criticism as well as positive feedback. Simply labeling people as a vocal minority to ignore their valid concerns is not helpful.

31 minutes ago, hydragyro said:

Ideally, the new stuff should be attractive enough that players are naturally inclined to use it, rather than using it for no other reason than because it is new.

True. I call them moving decors. 

 

I am looking forward to today's developer's Twitch stream. Hopefully, we can learn more about their thoughts on the current state and future of Oxygen Not Included.

[MiniDeathStar]

3 hours ago, Carib94 said:

This is a case of to each their own. Players choose how they wanna play the game. Their are players that try something new or different on their colonies, and their are players who just play doing the same thing every colony only with small tweaks.

Exactly. And to encourage a diversity of playstyles, the game shouldn't force you to go for exosuits every time. But that's what would happen if they introduce more cold hazards a la Rimwold / Surviving Mars. The more hostile the environment is, the more you are incentivised to use strong heating and exosuits, up to the point dupes would only take them off while sleeping.

I think we have a good amount of new cold interactions. All the new plants and critters require cold, we have a revamped hypothermia that is cancelled out by warming stations, we have health damage when extremely cold, and we have an ice melting machine so we're not forced to melt the entire biome. Of course I would always welcome new mechanics, but they need to be considered holistically with the systems already in place, and encourage diverse playstyles and not the other way around.

[Gurgel]

7 minutes ago, evilcat19xx said:

If there are tens of postings, maybe they are not just the vocal minority.

10s of postings from one person. Obviously. 

6 minutes ago, MiniDeathStar said:

Exactly. And to encourage a diversity of playstyles, the game shouldn't force you to go for exosuits every time. But that's what would happen if they introduce more cold hazards a la Rimwold / Surviving Mars. The more hostile the environment is, the more you are incentivised to use strong heating and exosuits, up to the point dupes would only take them off while sleeping.

I think we have a good amount of new cold interactions. All the new plants and critters require cold, we have a revamped hypothermia that is cancelled out by warming stations, we have health damage when extremely cold, and we have an ice melting machine so we're not forced to melt the entire biome. Of course I would always welcome new mechanics, but they need to be considered holistically with the systems already in place, and encourage diverse playstyles and not the other way around.

I agree. The core strength of Oni is that there is really no need to use "established" builds or follow some standard path. Anything you can think off that works is legitimate. And there are a _lot_ of possible solutions to each challenge. Taking away from that, forcing specific solutions, etc. would diminish the game. 

[Tenedas]

19 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

I agree. The core strength of Oni is that there is really no need to use "established" builds or follow some standard path. Anything you can think off that works is legitimate. And there are a _lot_ of possible solutions to each challenge. Taking away from that, forcing specific solutions, etc. would diminish the game. 

you should realize we have already a "diminished" game with only exosuit as viable option past the early game as @MiniDeathStar pointed out.
What you are talking about , meaning we have a lot of options, sounds more like roleplaying or self crippling yourself deciding to go for less optimal system for the sake/fun of it.

I'd like to remind you that Oni is a survival game and this spirit is what drive player to create new system in the struggle to survive.

• In the base game we struggle against Heat mainly as end game threat
• In the expansion we struggle for materials / close resource loops across planets

With this DLC, even if it's a part of a series, we arguably get a new threat to fight. If any is a minuscule threat at the start and that's objective.
You can still play with new stuff? yes, this doesn't mean we are getting more of "oxygen not included". No, we are getting a paid mod with some critters and biomes. to mix things up.
I am ok with that for now.. surely not impressed.

These concerns may vary based on the play styles? Yes, who like to play ONI, the original survival game, is concerned, who want just to play "ONI" , the new sandbox/base builder that get even easier with this DLC, is not too much concerned probably
We are just getting more sandbox fan service stuff to play with, and it feels rushed too (an example being the new constructions at 15° Degrees that had to be hotfixed)

So if you are struggling to understand why some of us are getting vocal about this is because we care about the game and know full well how microtransactions or similars can end up after they are introduced (let's not forget now Tencent is at the table even if not making decision).

Anyway i am now off starting my new colony, can't wait to play the real thing and change my mind, still hopeful <3

[Gurgel]

15 minutes ago, Tenedas said:

you should realize we have already a "diminished" game with only exosuit as viable option past the early game as @MiniDeathStar pointed out.

Why should I "realize" things that are not true?

[Raynestormrn]

How do you actually launch the new content? I've purchased and installed, i can click the "spaced out" link fine to relaunch with that running (i've purchased and played many hours previously on that one). But when i click "the frosty planet" it just takes me to the store page, which says "already in your library". I would really like to play the new content but seems to be bugged?  How have you all been able to launch the new DLC?

[Tenedas]

you can decide to not realize things but this won't change the fact that they are true.

Honestly seems like your comments doesn't add much to the conversation so i guess the lack of arguments is self explanatory <3

Glad you enjoy the new DLC and wish you all the best fun you can squeeze out of it

[speckle21]

I like it, my play style is "find ways to screw with the rules" and i like the geothermal thing letting me apply 150c heat to any arbitrary liquid. So many possibilities to screw with phase changes. I thought the plants and animals and cold start was mediocre, but the POI is what sells me.

I think this DLC has a little something for many, although not for everyone like Space DLC was. 

[DolphinWing]

6 hours ago, Raynestormrn said:

How do you actually launch the new content? I've purchased and installed, i can click the "spaced out" link fine to relaunch with that running (i've purchased and played many hours previously on that one). But when i click "the frosty planet" it just takes me to the store page, which says "already in your library". I would really like to play the new content but seems to be bugged?  How have you all been able to launch the new DLC?

You have to start a new map. Ceres start or Mixed Ceres biomes/contents with old asteroids. Or enable them in previous old saves in pause menu. I guess this will help you get frosty DLC contents printed from pods since no new biomes will be added. But enabling this can let you use sandbox/debug tool to add staffs to your old map.