Why nerf the batbat?

[HowlVoid]

4 hours ago, ADM said:

Oooh ! Meanwhile I was wondering if it was always the case and all my memories were lies, or when was it that got changed. I didn’t hear about it, I was so confused…

Anyway I don’t mind. That thing used to cost an arm, or rather 5 which were harder to get. The change feels fair and it’ll remain useful vs bosses.

Used to cost a lot

Seems fair

What??

The cost was also brought down to 2 living logs, 1 purple gem and two living logs. This was a NICHE item that saw very small usage, as healing from food is far more powerful. It's not even a contest. How is any of this even remotely fair. Yeah I'm sure you don't mind cause it sounds like you didn't even use it. Characters that don't heal through food had the most use of it. 

This change didn't have gameplay in mind and was done for the purpose of "consistency" so no, it's completely unfair. 

4 hours ago, ADM said:

But I can’t say that this wouldn’t deserve some other buffs to compensate. Like, give it much greater durability so it can be used as a standard weapon but if you heal yourself the durability is drained as much as it is now.

If it's fair why does it need buffs? I'm sorry but your viewpoint sounds all over the place. Having it work in the ruins, one of the places that it drops from, is all it needs. It allowed Wormwood to collect all the living logs he needed for things like star callers and deconstruction staffs, while also living off monster meat (and stay low sanity). I can already tell a lot of people don't know how much of a life line this ability was for wormwood early ruins. 

4 hours ago, ADM said:

I’d be using it even more.

The way it was before it was already incredibly useful. So much so that I used it almost exclusively as a healing item before access to jelly beans. 

Some of us are/were already using it plenty.

[mykenception]

8 hours ago, benfroyobro9381 said:

I personally think it should do tentacle spike damage. This wouldn’t break the item; tentacle spikes are more accessible and dark swords, handbags, etc, would likely still be the most popular option. That would honestly fix the issue and keep the consistency. 

I don't think upping the damage does anything. If anything, you'd be losing out on possible healing points against a mob because more hits= more healing. I'd rather you give it more uses

still, having it not work on some common mobs on specific like locations where you'd actually find one is sad

 

[Gameplayer143]

3 hours ago, Frashaw27 said:

While I'm not saying not draining off shadows and clockwork isn't a big nerf, I am saying that there is a multitude of targets in the wilds and if that's too far then there is still the depths dwellers from the webs that are 5 feet from the chest you just got it from. It's not the target your going for but it still has some use if you need to pit stop to top off hp and maybe even get food/healing out of the meat/gland. Again it is now much worse but still not useless.

I do have the idea that it would get stronger if you were at full hp. Like you get morning star damage or slightly worse but you have to kite perfectly for the optimal dps out of itm Would have it see some use in a expert players players hands.

Most players run past the wilds in ruins, only reason to be there killing enemies is if you're killing monkeys for bananas.

23 minutes ago, mykenception said:

I don't think upping the damage does anything. If anything, you'd be losing out on possible healing points against a mob because more hits= more healing. I'd rather you give it more uses

still, having it not work on some common mobs on specific like locations where you'd actually find one is sad

 

Also I like the batbat to be mainly a weaker healing weapon the player can rely on, rather than just a good weapon to use for dealing damage.

[Anis5240]

38 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

a weaker healing weapon the player can rely on

Yep.

I may rarely use the bat bat, but I am still happy to see/get/make it, especially in the labyrinth. We only have the bat bat as a life-steal weapon, and of course Wigfrid's health leech doesn't count for said trait.

[twitchgabo]

23 hours ago, Gameplayer143 said:

Like seriously what reason is there to make it not work on shadow creatures and clockworks anymore? This is unironically the one issue I have with this update.

It especially sucks for Wormwood and Warly due to healing being harder to do for them.

It is sad because it is basically  a nerf to wormwood. Every other character can heal through food  so there is almost no reason to have a batbat  if you're not wormwood lol

[somethin]

1 hour ago, twitchgabo said:

It is sad because it is basically  a nerf to wormwood. Every other character can heal through food  so there is almost no reason to have a batbat  if you're not wormwood lol

Personally I don't really mind... Wormwood healing is actually pretty easy if you take the syrup skill (poop galore, which translate to infinite compost wrap until you get jellybeans) and poultices are still a thing if you want instant healing in some scenarios. I do use the free ones I get from the ruins though.

[ADM]

4 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Snip

Your perspective on the thing is very legitimate and I understand the frustration you have with this change as Wormwood mains, a lot more now that you said it.

The situation you described of how it helped snowball with crafting in the ruins is something I never experienced and it sounds amazing! Would suck if that goes away indeed.

I personally wish to play a bit of nearly all characters so I don’t have the dedication to stick to someone to tell their whole story but definitely Wormwood should have been the one to account for the most to decide of this change.

Other than that, and thanks for the correction if not for the assumptions, I do like to take it with me for bossfights, or keep one on boat. And maybe I even used to often clear ruins with it, been having heavier memory loss this year so the moment I witnessed this change without reading from it on a patchnote didn’t help, but that’s to say I do use it. When I said my stuff about the possible other buff it’s because I kinda want DST to have more lastly weapons so we shift away from having only 3-4 big reliables (pre-rifts, gets worse after) and the other ones you just got to force yourself even if I try to. I don’t think we would be in a bad spot if suddenly I could have only one Batbat as my weapon in my inventory the same as I just did after crafting a Dark Sword. I find its durability fine when used correctly but if I could have less stuff in my pockets then having it to last enough so I can attack with it actively won’t have me complaining but I know I can’t do that atm.

Hope that clarifies my view on it.

[arubaro]

17 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

It could just as easily be said that the purple gem is absorbing magic from these mobs and turning that to health. 

 

That is the thing. I dont get why they cant tolerate batbat being something that absorbs some kind of vital energy. They dont want them to drop souls? Ok but they move so they have some energy

 

I would love to see the people saying this is drama and overreaction how they will react to actual necessary nerfs like volt goat jelly, BS helmet, food in general, etc

This game is becoming a mess for the lack of nerfs because how the community reacts but is okey when an underused item is being nerfed futher (already was nerfed cuz planar entities) because they dont use it. But touch their popular op character/method and expect rivers of tears

[grm9]

16 minutes ago, arubaro said:

actual necessary nerfs like volt goat jelly

when a character with almost no useful perks has a perk that still sucks but is sometimes slightly useful (unacceptable)

pretending that it's useful during early game's just dumb because you won't reach spring before you do all bosses if you do everything well, or at least you'll only have joke bosses like CK and CC left and an x1.5 damage multiplier that requires you to kill goats that might've not respawned by the time you started wanting to get jelly because of someone wanting wigfrid spear, weather pains or jelly's just nearly worthless

20 minutes ago, arubaro said:

BS helmet

you only get it after pretty much everything else gets done so hardly anything matters at that point unless you do CC questline 1st and even then you need to wait for 15 days for it after that

[arubaro]

13 minutes ago, grm9 said:

when a character with almost no useful perks has a perk that still sucks but is sometimes slightly useful (unacceptable)

pretending that it's useful during early game's just dumb because you won't reach spring before you do all bosses if you do everything well, or at least you'll only have joke bosses like CK and CC left and an x1.5 damage multiplier that requires you to kill goats that might've not respawned by the time you started wanting to get jelly because of someone wanting wigfrid spear, weather pains or jelly's just nearly worthless

you only get it after pretty much everything else gets done so hardly anything matters at that point unless you do CC questline 1st and even then you need to wait for 15 days for it after that

Do you realize that everything you said makes no sense? Or do you expect the game being unbalanced because some nerds rush everything in 2h and starts over again? Did i mentioned that volt goat jelly is useful in early game? Warly is so bad and volt goat jelly such unacceptable item that klei needed to start a whole new arc to be able to add 10k bosses that will last more than 1 minute (until they added willow's tree...)

Not everybody starts 1000 worlds per month and not everybody speed runs the game with their 10k hours of experience on rolling back 100 times per boss fight to master them. Also you are so tireshome trying to go against every single comment even if is by saying non senses, going off topic or simply throwing your square head dogmatic statments

Lets add a 1000 damage weapon made of sticks but only after beaten the planar bosses so in that way is balanced in your eyes lmao. Bs helmet is unbalanced for how much mechanics it ignores, doesnt matter how long you need to play, this is a survival not a cozy building game, or atleast is what it should be. If you want god mode or an easy experience in late go for it with settings and commands but makes no sense to have such boring experience in a game that is made to last as long as you want when that kind of items limits how much klei can add because all the good perks are picked

What is dumb is to pretent to think that a game should be balanced about 3 nerds that can rush every boss before spring because is their confort place and argue with everybody that doesnt share that vision

[grm9]

12 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Do you realize that everything you said makes no sense? Or do you expect the game being unbalanced because some nerds rush everything in 2h and starts over again? Did i mentioned that volt goat jelly is useful in early game? Warly is so bad and volt goat jelly such unacceptable item that klei needed to start a whole new arc to be able to add 10k bosses that will last more than 1 minute (until they added willow's tree...)

Not everybody starts 1000 worlds per month and not everybody speed runs the game with their 10k hours of experience on rolling back 100 times per boss fight to master them. Also you are so tireshome trying to go against every single comment even if is by saying non senses, going off topic or simply throwing your square head dogmatic statments

Lets add a 1000 damage weapon made of sticks but only after beaten the planar bosses so in that way is balanced in your eyes lmao. Bs helmet is unbalanced for how much mechanics it ignores, doesnt matter how long you need to play, this is a survival not a cozy building game, or atleast is what it should be. If you want god mode or an easy experience in late go for it with settings and commands but makes no sense to have such boring experience in a game that is made to last as long as you want when that kind of items limits how much klei can add because all the good perks are picked

What is dumb is to pretent to think that a game should be balanced about 3 nerds that can rush every boss before spring because is their confort place and argue with everybody that doesnt share that vision

why on earth do you care about things being too good during late game if nothing matters at that point because you can't permanently die and be forced to regen nor do you need to do stuff in time and there's nothing to compete about except decorating stuff but volt goat jelly's irrelevant for decorations except allowing you to get them faster, what's the point of asking the devs to force everyone to play the way you want to play? don't use volt goat jelly if it's too good

14 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Lets add a 1000 damage weapon made of sticks but only after beaten the planar bosses so in that way is balanced in your eyes lmao

yes, that'd be fine

15 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Warly is so bad and volt goat jelly such unacceptable item that klei needed to start a whole new arc to be able to add 10k bosses that will last more than 1 minute

we'll probably get planar volt goat jelly, idk what was planar about considering that they added planar damage to wolfgang too, the bosses're really easy so idk what was the point of trying to force people to fight them without damage multipliers mattering

17 minutes ago, arubaro said:

What is dumb is to pretent to think that a game should be balanced about 3 nerds

it's dumb to think that the game needs to be balanced, it just needs to be fun

[arubaro]

48 minutes ago, grm9 said:

it just needs to be fun

Since, as you said, is really hard to permanently die, for some of us the fun comes from the thrill of being in dangerous situations, overcome mechanics and needing to focus to fight.

Having damage buff maths breaking fights, items ignoring multiple mechanics or characters with perks that breaks certain fights just ruins the fun for many people that enjoy playing a game. Also makes no sense for klei to develop mechanics just to be ignored, why wasting time on them?

The same way would make no sense to develop every FW phase, mechanic and animation if everybody simply used the houndious exploit. Some people might enjoy such way of playing but is a waste for klei for nothing and a lot of people would be bored

I play dst because of how everything keeps being as challenging as in early. If wasnt because such good balance i would be playing other sandboxes with such unispired, bland and brain dead progression like valheim, terraria or core keeper. Dst doesnt need to be a clone of such lack of creativity neither needs to fulfill the player base of that games which seems to enjoy being inmortal in late game

Fun is subjective a word that your dogmatic way of thinking (way of thinking that seems to dislike 99% of items, characters and meta since they arent useful for rushing everythingbefore spring) might not understand

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Since, as you said, is really hard to permanently die, for some of us the fun comes from the thrill of being in dangerous situations, overcome mechanics and needing to focus to fight

that wasn't a thing during late game even before volt goat jelly and brightshade helm

3 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Having damage buff maths breaking fights, items ignoring multiple mechanics or characters with perks that breaks certain fights just ruins the fun for many people that enjoy playing a game

why do they use them if they don't like using them?

3 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Also makes no sense for klei to develop mechanics just to be ignored, why wasting time on them?

because you need to deal with them before you get that stuff and you can not use that stuff, a lot of people don't use volt goat jelly

6 minutes ago, arubaro said:

The same way would make no sense to develop every FW phase, mechanic and animation if everybody simply used the houndious exploit

most people already don't do that though

7 minutes ago, arubaro said:

I play dst because of how everything keeps being as challenging as in early

it doesn't?

7 minutes ago, arubaro said:

way of thinking that seems to dislike 99% of items, characters and meta since they arent useful for rushing everythingbefore spring

no, i simply bring that up because people seem to think that nerfing something'll change some sort of meta that doesn't exist or that that thing isn't related to

8 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Fun is subjective

that's why it's best to keep that stuff the way it is since people that don't like using it can not use it and people that want to use it can use it

[Cyrefy]

I think Klei made a little used item even less used, they could consider removing the purple gem from the recipe maybe that would help.

[Mike23Ua]

30 minutes ago, Cyrefy said:

I think Klei made a little used item even less used, they could consider removing the purple gem from the recipe maybe that would help.

Purple Gems are super super easy to get, and no.. they don’t require a trip to the ruins, Red & Blue Gems can be Combined at a Prestihatitator to create Purples (without having to swap to Wilson for Transmute skills)

Now if only Red & Blue gems dropped more often from hound attacks.. or we could change them into Red/Blue hounds without having to be a dead ghost haunting them to do it.

[Cyrefy]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Now if only Red & Blue gems dropped more often from hound attacks.

Yes, that would be a better idea.

[Frosty_Mentos]

It's a very bad change for a very niche item. It may heal a lot but it also costs a lot of sanity and resources to make. Noone in the right mind would make this item as Wormwood or Warly now when it comes to ruins raids and it'll likely make going down there more tedious than it needs to be.

Healing items or not, it's prolly best on hand option when needing a quick boost of heal without losing DPS too much, or a way to lose sanity and get health incase of wanting nightmares, but it's still fairly situational and not worth option for most other characters.

Awful change, needs reverting. Logic do not need apply for this, or add a new living mob we could fight in ruins areas for health. Be it nightmares are good enough.

[Jakepeng99]

18 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

It now grows them to tree stage but doesn't make them grow fruit, right? That's not as broken as it was before, at least.

JustExo lied.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Purple Gems are super super easy to get, and no.. they don’t require a trip to the ruins, Red & Blue Gems can be Combined at a Prestihatitator to create Purples (without having to swap to Wilson for Transmute skills)

Now if only Red & Blue gems dropped more often from hound attacks.. or we could change them into Red/Blue hounds without having to be a dead ghost haunting them to do it.

Purple hounds when?

[Mike23Ua]

33 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

JustExo lied.

Purple hounds when?

Dude if they teleport, that would be so epic..

We don’t know the reasons WHY Klei changes stuff around, only they know the full scope of things.

I can pitch suggestions like stealing 2009 Borderlands Explosive Skags, (hounds that leaped through the air and at their landing location let out a AoE burst of exploding damage)

Yes Winona’s new catapults and my love for borderlands and the Hippopotamoose from Hamlet “Inspired” this Idea.

But.. the point is that in order for new mobs and items to exist, old items will need to be Nerfed, buffed, removed, repurposed, or rebalanced.

It’s listed as a “bug fix” so I’m going to assume they never intended for the Bat-Bat to absorb health from Robots & Shadow mobs.

[HellHeater]

I don't think its that tragic. The batbat still works on spiders, monkeys, slurtles and AG does it not? It working on clockworks and shadow creatures never made sense anyway. I remember being very very confused on why it would even work in the first place years ago.

[Popian]

39 minutes ago, HellHeater said:

The batbat still works on spiders, monkeys, slurtles and AG does it not?

Things that are mostly out of the way. I'd say my previous use with the item on average got around a third of the healing from shadows.

[arubaro]

5 hours ago, HellHeater said:

I don't think its that tragic. The batbat still works on spiders, monkeys, slurtles and AG does it not? It working on clockworks and shadow creatures never made sense anyway. I remember being very very confused on why it would even work in the first place years ago.

Why? They are alive. Isnt like clearly is sucking blood or something 

Does this means that it should also dont work on revived mobs and bosses, the mobs from the rifts, CC or ghosts?

I never though it doesnt make sense for it to suck energy from other creatures that dont hace organic bodies

[Frosty_Mentos]

the true tragic part about this is that compared to most characters, those that are healing limited don't exactly have healing on hand or advantage in combat to compensate for the health lost. Most characters can rely on shrooms and cooked foods which is easiest way to stay healthy, wanda just has healing at any times despite time limitation which is intergrated as her own mechanic, warly and wormwood generally are the characters I'd advocate that should keep that item as niche to their lacking healing ways to supplement their gameplay better.

While, sure, you can go kill spiders and monkeys but that's a lot more additional travel compared to other characters and really depends on ruin generation to allow or not allow you that.

Making that niche item even more niche and conditional is the wrong choice I tell you, it was doing it's job before and it was doing it fine enough despite the cost.

[arubaro]

23 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

the true tragic part about this is that compared to most characters, those that are healing limited don't exactly have healing on hand or advantage in combat to compensate for the health lost. Most characters can rely on shrooms and cooked foods which is easiest way to stay healthy, wanda just has healing at any times despite time limitation which is intergrated as her own mechanic, warly and wormwood generally are the characters I'd advocate that should keep that item as niche to their lacking healing ways to supplement their gameplay better.

While, sure, you can go kill spiders and monkeys but that's a lot more additional travel compared to other characters and really depends on ruin generation to allow or not allow you that.

Making that niche item even more niche and conditional is the wrong choice I tell you, it was doing it's job before and it was doing it fine enough despite the cost.

The tragedy is that easy to change stuff like hitting priority being high on things like snurtle mounds isnt changed but they took the time to nerf an underused item to fix an ""inconsistency""

[Frosty_Mentos]

4 hours ago, arubaro said:

The tragedy is that easy to change stuff like hitting priority being high on things like snurtle mounds isnt changed but they took the time to nerf an underused item to fix an ""inconsistency""

Klei does a silly, we call out, it gets fixed. They did mention it might be changed back tho.