Hired pigs given the tools that players make should farm and or mine too

[Frosty_Mentos]

Maybe they would be less efficient and a bit shoddy at their work in comparison, but just the idea of pigs wielding hoes or pickaxes would be nice to exist and help other players.

I know much of this is Wurt exclusive, but some followers are not Wurt's and they could use a bit of slightly similar level of love imo :I

[Frosty_Mentos]

So, I'm a little confused. Do people not want their pigs to do more labor jobs? They do decent enough tree chopping, but they lack the ability to do anything more. Employing followers to do menial tasks would be a good QoL imo.

[Mike23Ua]

I always wanted to think of it as story lore, in the Hamlet DLC pigs were intelligent and civilized, buuttttt they were also closer to the heavens (or the moon god in this case) and the DLC showed us small little “hints” at the moons powers when spiders and apes fused together to make Spiderapes.

The Pigs in DST undergo Werewolf changes in full moons (Merms are unaffected?) 

I am going to Assume that the civilized farmer pigs, flowerist pigs etc..  was because they were closer to the moon and it was doing funny moon god related stuff to heighten their intelligence.

And besides, what would even be the point in Wurts Merms if Pigmen did everything the Merms do?

 

[Demigardenerner]

23 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

So, I'm a little confused. Do people not want their pigs to do more labor jobs? They do decent enough tree chopping, but they lack the ability to do anything more. Employing followers to do menial tasks would be a good QoL imo.

The point of giving an character an special ability is for it to be special there no point if everyone can just use a pig to do everything a merm can do.just let wurt be special 

[Creatorofswamps]

3 hours ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Maybe they would be less efficient and a bit shoddy at their work in comparison, but just the idea of pigs wielding hoes or pickaxes would be nice to exist and help other players.

I know much of this is Wurt exclusive, but some followers are not Wurt's and they could use a bit of slightly similar level of love imo :I

Klei expressed a desire to make a rework of the Pigmen, Merm and Bunnymen , which he talked about in an interview with C of theL https://www.devolverdigital.com/blog/post/Cult-of-the-Lamb-Dont-Starve-Together-Crossover-but-make-it-an-interview in the meantime, do not devalue mermes and Wurt

48 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

And besides, what would even be the point in Wurts Merms if Pigmen did everything the Merms do?

The same thoughts

[Frosty_Mentos]

35 minutes ago, Creatorofswamps said:

Klei expressed a desire to make a rework of the Pigmen, Merm and Bunnymen , which he talked about in an interview with C of theL https://www.devolverdigital.com/blog/post/Cult-of-the-Lamb-Dont-Starve-Together-Crossover-but-make-it-an-interview in the meantime, do not devalue mermes and Wurt

Well, that's a relief at least. Even if it would take a while, at least it's something to look forward to in the future.

1 hour ago, Rashed.johnson said:

The point of giving an character an special ability is for it to be special there no point if everyone can just use a pig to do everything a merm can do.just let wurt be special 

Now that's kinda boring af. Yea, I mean, Merms being way more effective for the set given character to interact with and do things for, but we got much of the Constant that just needs general interaction for sake of both immersion and gameplay. I'll be waiting for those interactions someday whenever it'll happen, according that they want to do so eventually.

[Lovens]

It would make a lot of sense actually. We know their houses consist of cut stone among all things which means they can mine, they had to do it in order to build their villages. They also seem to know how to grow basic crops - look at all their carrot plantations! They should be able to mine and till if given the right tool, and it should consume tool's durability. 

1 hour ago, Rashed.johnson said:

The point of giving an character an special ability is for it to be special there no point if everyone can just use a pig to do everything a merm can do.just let wurt be special 

They could rework it so merms are still faster and more efficient at this job. Like right now every character can cook, but Warly does it faster (both on heat sources and his crockpot), every character can mine and chop but Wolfgang does it more efficiently (especially with crits), every character can grow crops but Wormwood has easier time doing that. Merms could still be superior due to their stats, combat abilities, not being scared of the dark, not having a wereform, and working faster/not requiring individual tools to be given. 

[marshyds]

I think Wurt should have followers unique to her, instead of them just being buff pigmen in a literal sense. its why people also want new merms that can do chores other followers cant (I.E fishing)

[Frosty_Mentos]

48 minutes ago, marshyds said:

I think Wurt should have followers unique to her, instead of them just being buff pigmen in a literal sense. its why people also want new merms that can do chores other followers cant (I.E fishing)

The more the world will become character oriented the more split the content will feel only given to the characters themselves. Merms feel exclusive and very powerful enough on Wurt already and expanding on it will do more good later, but giving reason to interact and immerse to feel like those creatures are more alive than just walking meat on legs would beat the dislike towards followers in gameplay.

Default vanilla stuff deserves some love too, y'know.

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

The more the world will become character oriented the more split the content will feel only given to the characters themselves. Merms feel exclusive and very powerful enough on Wurt already and expanding on it will do more good later, but giving reason to interact and immerse to feel like those creatures are more alive than just walking meat on legs would beat the dislike towards followers in gameplay.

Default vanilla stuff deserves some love too, y'know.

Pigs shouldn't get what merms got specifically because that's what makes them unique and because Wurt has to spend skill points to obtain these abilities. Pigs can get something new but it shouldn't be on the same level of character exclusive abilities otherwise it'll once again bring up the topic of "why merms when pigs do the same?" as even if you make merms less efficient at it you don't have to commit to a specialized character to make use of them so it's fine that they're lacking as followers because you can make up for the faults with character abilities.

[Brotid01]

Asking to nonitencional nerf by allowing everyone having her only unique gimmic when the Wurt’s Skill Tree is not even release yet is just straight rude and funny xD.

If we are stealing powers i want the Wanda alarming clock without spending insight points even if is weaker to chesee celestial champion and wicker's rain book even if the rain is weaker.

Toxic jokes aside pls don't, if you wanna buff the pigs fine by me but make the pigs doing other task instead like picking up grass and twigs we ask for years to have our little kingdom don't take that from us You Monster...

[Frosty_Mentos]

42 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Pigs shouldn't get what merms got specifically because that's what makes them unique and because Wurt has to spend skill points to obtain these abilities. Pigs can get something new but it shouldn't be on the same level of character exclusive abilities otherwise it'll once again bring up the topic of "why merms when pigs do the same?" as even if you make merms less efficient at it you don't have to commit to a specialized character to make use of them so it's fine that they're lacking as followers because you can make up for the faults with character abilities.

Wurt gets the benefit of doing it practically better than anyone to benefit herself in being immersed as a merm in a swamp, I never said it being on same level but just enough to feel like anyone could hire decent enough workers for grounds keeping and resource gathering too. She's got an extremely efficient army and gatherer bunch, I don't see what would be bad on giving us player tools to pigs and bunnies do similar tasks in cost of meat and carrots. It doesn't demean her for what she does well and she's great for combat with merms.

Pigs already do one third of work tasks and people are very iffy on making use of them most of the time for using as gatherers and instead they're just early football helmet source and then just meat and nothing more. Kinda lame same for the mindset some people have that "ALL THESE THINGS GOTTA BE EXCLUSIVE" then... what does Klei has to develop at this point of the game? Improve immersive gameplay and enhance base game content.

18 minutes ago, Brotid01 said:

Toxic jokes aside pls don't, if you wanna buff the pigs fine by me but make the pigs doing other task instead like picking up grass and twigs we ask for years to have our little kingdom don't take that from us You Monster...

I liked the idea of Klei suggesting it being kinda like in Cult of the Lamb where they'd do those little tasks or act a little more livelier. I'm so bored of these boss after boss after boss releases that I just wanna get myself to just interact with the world and chill more.

[Mysterious box]

5 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Wurt gets the benefit of doing it practically better than anyone to benefit herself in being immersed as a merm in a swamp, I never said it being on same level but just enough to feel like anyone could hire decent enough workers for grounds keeping and resource gathering too. She's got an extremely efficient army and gatherer bunch, I don't see what would be bad on giving us player tools to pigs and bunnies do similar tasks in cost of meat and carrots. It doesn't demean her for what she does well and she's great for combat with merms.

Again Wurt would have to not only invest skill points but build up the a sizable amount of merms for something people would be given from just finding the pig king this would be a problem even if merms were better at it and has been a issue people have brought up about merms already. What's normally said is mining doesn't take long so most people would rather just do it themselves and pigs already chop wood decently enough so why go out of your way to use merms for it? What they've been given now is a reason to invest into merms beyond the excess abilities people outside of Wurt don't really care about. It gives the team a reason to support Wurt in building up her structures and to use the clever disguise to take part in the benefits rather than ignoring her for not being useful to the team.

9 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Pigs already do one third of work tasks and people are very iffy on making use of them most of the time for using as gatherers and instead they're just early football helmet source and then just meat and nothing more. Kinda lame same for the mindset some people have that "ALL THESE THINGS GOTTA BE EXCLUSIVE" then... what does Klei has to develop at this point of the game? Improve immersive gameplay and enhance base game content.

There are even less people who use the clever disguise because again the mindset is why use merms when you could use pigs? It's really hard to justify giving away everything that makes the character who needs to spend a absurd amount of time setting up and spend additional skill points away for free to everyone else. What exactly would be the point in putting in all that work for Wurt if you can just match it with any character? Keep in mind that the other characters need far less resources and spends far less time setting up.

It's more or less like asking why can't everyone have a Abigail it's unfair to keep a aoe attacking follower as character specific.

[chirsg]

Why I don't think pigs should farm is because they're partial to meat. If they should have any association, it should be to berries somehow because they are gobbler spawners. I have a few ideas to implement it, but i think klei wouldn't like them.

[Frosty_Mentos]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

Again Wurt would have to not only invest skill points but build up the a sizable amount of merms for something people would be given from just finding the pig king this would be a problem even if merms were better at it and has been a issue people have brought up about merms already. What's normally said is mining doesn't take long so most people would rather just do it themselves and pigs already chop wood decently enough so why go out of your way to use merms for it? What they've been given now is a reason to invest into merms beyond the excess abilities people outside of Wurt don't really care about. It gives the team a reason to support Wurt in building up her structures and to use the clever disguise to take part in the benefits rather than ignoring her for not being useful to the team.

There are even less people who use the clever disguise because again the mindset is why use merms when you could use pigs? It's really hard to justify giving away everything that makes the character who needs to spend a absurd amount of time setting up and spend additional skill points away for free to everyone else. What exactly would be the point in putting in all that work for Wurt if you can just match it with any character? Keep in mind that the other characters need far less resources and spends far less time setting up.

Clever disguise idea was likely so that Wurt's merms wouldn't kill the player or do some tasks when set up properly already. Having to get Wurt herself and make a setup of her build to do rock mining and tree chopping is a different kind of task all together. She's a minion character the sake of putting most power budget into damage, I think I'd be fine just with that cause most of her gameplay will revolve to having merms around all the time and do all the tasks with them anyway. Pigs are very not good at doing anything but tree chopping and this yapping about this and that about what this will do to Wurt - it won't do anything awful to her, since she still will work with merms so you're saying a bunch of things that are extremely situation gameplay wise for her mask and others to be using her merms instead of pigs or just picking pigs to do only single labor. Boo.

4 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Why I don't think pigs should farm is because they're partial to meat. If they should have any association, it should be to berries somehow because they are gobbler spawners. I have a few ideas to implement it, but i think klei wouldn't like them.

Merms are literally walking fish, what are you on about? They give meat and they are hired for a longer if you give a fish from killed merms making it into a loop of rehiring. Pigs take forever to respawn, they do only tree chopping and their damage dealing is very weak so they should at least do more than just tree chopping. Food is not an issue in this game if you know where to look. It's more about the incentive for using pigs for labor more just because gathering, chopping and mining by hand anything is not fun or interesting for new players or older ones so to give some slack for everyone - hiring Constant's inhabitants would make it a little more interesting and give more purpose than just leaving everything as just another food source.

[arubaro]

I dont see why people is being so dramatic about pigs doing logical things when wurt already has 38272848227^10000 perks. Pigs doing the same with higher cost (and more clunky because they wont have a 5x1 multitool but you needing to carry ingredients/different tools to equip them), less work speed and only during day time 

"But wurt should be unique meeeeeeeee" she already is and will still be

[Mysterious box]

8 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Clever disguise idea was likely so that Wurt's merms wouldn't kill the player or do some tasks when set up properly already. Having to get Wurt herself and make a setup of her build to do rock mining and tree chopping is a different kind of task all together. She's a minion character the sake of putting most power budget into damage, I think I'd be fine just with that cause most of her gameplay will revolve to having merms around all the time and do all the tasks with them anyway. Pigs are very not good at doing anything but tree chopping and this yapping about this and that about what this will do to Wurt - it won't do anything awful to her, since she still will work with merms so you're saying a bunch of things that are extremely situation gameplay wise for her mask and others to be using her merms instead of pigs or just picking pigs to do only single labor. Boo.

Keeping merms around costs resources and thanks to the fleeing system they have is a headache to keep them fed before merm guards enter the picture with their higher recruitment range and even then it's still a pain.

One of the biggest complaints that people had with Wurt was why bother putting in so much effort for things you could already do with other followers and why even support her when off spawn Maxwell is superior to her peak performance pigs excel because they're something almost everyone can use with no investment even if you make it even then pigs have advantages for players that merms don't such as being able to do things far away from them while they chop wood, freeing you from ewcus, and proactively going after hostile mobs which is very useful in hound waves they're far more useful than your giving them credit for  also keep in mind that a pig hits harder than a default merm before the king's blessing.

Wurt's gimmick is to expand on followers it makes no sense for her to work harder and invest skill points to make merms able to do things pigs do by default it'd be like making Warly go on a cooking quest to learn how to make meatballs but when he makes it the stats are 20% better. The effort you put into her needs to amount to more than just doing things slightly better than existing followers.

[Creatorofswamps]

22 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

hiring Constant's inhabitants would make it a little more interesting and give more purpose than just leaving everything as just another food source.

4 minutes ago, arubaro said:

I dont see why people is being so dramatic about pigs doing logical things when wurt already has 38272848227^10000 perks. Pigs doing the same with higher cost (and more clunky because they wont have a 5x1 multitool but you needing to carry ingredients/different tools to equip them), less work speed and only during day time 

"But wurt should be unique meeeeeeeee" she already is and will still be

Let's do it this way. Pigs need to be improved to improve immersion in the world of constants, but not like merms, for example, they can collect food and put it in a chest, receive less damage in armor, can look for truffles, sometimes cook special pork dishes if they see a cauldron, sit on leaky boats, carry heavy objects. there are a huge number of ideas that are not repeated after the merms

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, arubaro said:

I dont see why people is being so dramatic about pigs doing logical things when wurt already has 38272848227^10000 perks. Pigs doing the same with higher cost (and more clunky because they wont have a 5x1 multitool but you needing to carry ingredients/different tools to equip them), less work speed and only during day time 

"But wurt should be unique meeeeeeeee" she already is and will still be

Okay then why can't we get a telebrella, bramble husk, shadow prison, slingshot, and abigial variant but weaker for all characters, plant crafting, resource conversion, shadow sneak, magicians chest, wickerbottom's books, and more but weaker and available to everyone?

[NPCMaxwell]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Okay then why can't we get a telebrella, bramble husk, shadow prison, slingshot, and abigial variant but weaker for all characters, plant crafting, resource conversion, shadow sneak, magicians chest, wickerbottom's books, and more but weaker and available to everyone?

Also a valid point. What if only ONE pig could be turned into a loyal citizen helper pig maybe with all the effort needed to make it act like one? This wouldn't just be the same as Wurt but weaker but instead be extremly limited thing and just exist for a bit creature immersion?

[arubaro]

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Okay then why can't we get a telebrella, bramble husk, shadow prison, slingshot, and abigial variant but weaker for all characters, plant crafting, resource conversion, shadow sneak, magicians chest, wickerbottom's books, and more but weaker and available to everyone?

Are you comparing making mobs as intelligent as their rivals lead by a character with the most perks to c&p perks from characters that, some of them,  are nothing but wilson with said perk?

 

Better keep having pigs that dont even recognize a character destroying their home that adding more deep on them in anyway. Doesn't need to be a direct thing like giving them a pickaxe. Maybe they can add some PK arc of tast to improve the pigs arround him

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, arubaro said:

Are you comparing making mobs as intelligent as their rivals lead by a character with the most perks to c&p perks from characters that, some of them,  are nothing but wilson with said perk?

Yes as those improvements are directly tied to a character improving them directly why would that make a difference? Are you just gonna pretend merms start with these upgrades?

If this is fine I don't get why characters can't work for those perks?

[chirsg]

23 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Merms are literally walking fish, what are you on about? They give meat and they are hired for a longer if you give a fish from killed merms making it into a loop of rehiring. Pigs take forever to respawn, they do only tree chopping and their damage dealing is very weak so they should at least do more than just tree chopping. Food is not an issue in this game if you know where to look. It's more about the incentive for using pigs for labor more just because gathering, chopping and mining by hand anything is not fun or interesting for new players or older ones so to give some slack for everyone - hiring Constant's inhabitants would make it a little more interesting and give more purpose than just leaving everything as just another food source.

 

Simple answer is that I would not associate pigs with expending effort to farm for you, the player, as the reward for them would be vegetables, which they don't like. 
I want hamlet more than anyone and I want more roles for followers beyond what we have now which are underused.

I think that this goes far beyond the scope of the beta as it stands. Wurt doesn't eat meat. Other characters have a huge flexibility as to what they can eat. Wurt speccing higher with farming involving her merms makes sense because of her shortcomings. 

 

Honestly, I truly believe people see my posts, associate my opinion with hostility that doesn't exist and miss the point entirely with me.

[arubaro]

21 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Yes as those improvements are directly tied to a character improving them directly why would that make a difference? Are you just gonna pretend merms start with these upgrades?

If this is fine I don't get why characters can't work for those perks?

Again, it can be something that you need hours to develop instead of something from day 1

They can even develop some kind of faction mechanic. If you help pig king growing and advancing his kindom then you see changes in the swamp merms and viceversa to make wurt more unique (and having real racial wars)

Merms and pigs could be more developed instead of something we only see in trailers (wars, pigs raiding bases, etc)

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, arubaro said:

Again, it can be something that you need hours to develop instead of something from day 1

They can even develop some kind of faction mechanic. If you help pig king growing and advancing his kindom then you see changes in the swamp merms and viceversa to make wurt more unique (and having real racial wars)

Merms and pigs could be more developed instead of something we only see in trailers (wars, pigs raiding bases, etc)

Wurt is a character that takes hours to develop and again how wouldn't this be okay for other character perks?