Hired pigs given the tools that players make should farm and or mine too

[Creatorofswamps]

And so that's what started the war between the mermaids and pigs, everything fell into place

[Frosty_Mentos]

I didn't think any of this will be made during beta since this is ocean related stuff rn, I'm talking about more if merms are getting this much work on them I think it would be awesome to have some level of survival aspects expanded upon with just pigs and bunnymen, since the lategame most people are working towards are where resources won't be scarse and most trivial things that we farm we won't need to use and spam wicker books and do more manual labor. Less manual labor if we work towards that the better the game's survival will feel.

[Mike23Ua]

10 hours ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

The more the world will become character oriented the more split the content will feel only given to the characters themselves. Merms feel exclusive and very powerful enough on Wurt already and expanding on it will do more good later, but giving reason to interact and immerse to feel like those creatures are more alive than just walking meat on legs would beat the dislike towards followers in gameplay.

Default vanilla stuff deserves some love too, y'know.

No… Wurt should have Merms that can do everything, but the catch here is that no other Non-Wurt character can use her Merms, Additionally the Clever Disguise should be changed so that Non-Wurts can’t use it to pretend to be Wurt (they can’t hire Merm) 

Finally after all of that is said and done and Merm Folk are strong, Rework the other Follower based mobs across the entire game.

Pigmen for Chopping Trees & collecting the logs,

Bunnymen for Digging into the dirt (they even have a tunneling animation thanks to the year of Bunnyman mini-game) that uproots what they tunnel over for you grass, saplings, farm debris etc.

Rock Lobsters for strength punching boulders like Merm Folk.

Those are three “Followers” we can hire (not including Wurts Merms which should forever remain exclusive to her.)

And if Pigmen did EVERYTHING, what would be the point in hiring Bunnymen or Rock Lobsters?

I love Klei to death… but they often listen to the most popular forum vote, over logic.

And I’m just going to beg them to make each type of Follower character Unique, rather than let Pigmen do everything.

[NPCMaxwell]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

No… Wurt should have Merms that can do everything, but the catch here is that no other Non-Wurt character can use her Merms, Additionally the Clever Disguise should be changed so that Non-Wurts can’t use it to pretend to be Wurt (they can’t hire Merm) 

Finally after all of that is said and done and Merm Folk are strong, Rework the other Follower based mobs across the entire game.

Pigmen for Chopping Trees & collecting the logs,

Bunnymen for Digging into the dirt (they even have a tunneling animation thanks to the year of Bunnyman mini-game) that uproots what they tunnel over for you grass, saplings, farm debris etc.

Rock Lobsters for strength punching boulders like Merm Folk.

Those are three “Followers” we can hire (not including Wurts Merms which should forever remain exclusive to her.)

And if Pigmen did EVERYTHING, what would be the point in hiring Bunnymen or Rock Lobsters?

I love Klei to death… but they often listen to the most popular forum vote, over logic.

And I’m just going to beg them to make each type of Follower character Unique, rather than let Pigmen do everything.

Actually your version is the better one, so yes, let's spread the abilities to fit the type of follower. I sometimes happen to forget the others when thinking about followers abilities, since Pigmen are the most likely to be hired. Rock Lobsters would indeed sound like natural miners (also considering it's their food, so they should be able to do that obviously.)

[Mysterious box]

49 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

No… Wurt should have Merms that can do everything, but the catch here is that no other Non-Wurt character can use her Merms, Additionally the Clever Disguise should be changed so that Non-Wurts can’t use it to pretend to be Wurt (they can’t hire Merm) 

Finally after all of that is said and done and Merm Folk are strong, Rework the other Follower based mobs across the entire game.

Pigmen for Chopping Trees & collecting the logs,

Bunnymen for Digging into the dirt (they even have a tunneling animation thanks to the year of Bunnyman mini-game) that uproots what they tunnel over for you grass, saplings, farm debris etc.

Rock Lobsters for strength punching boulders like Merm Folk.

Those are three “Followers” we can hire (not including Wurts Merms which should forever remain exclusive to her.)

And if Pigmen did EVERYTHING, what would be the point in hiring Bunnymen or Rock Lobsters?

I love Klei to death… but they often listen to the most popular forum vote, over logic.

And I’m just going to beg them to make each type of Follower character Unique, rather than let Pigmen do everything.

I can get behind this way of going about this.

57 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

No… Wurt should have Merms that can do everything, but the catch here is that no other Non-Wurt character can use her Merms, Additionally the Clever Disguise should be changed so that Non-Wurts can’t use it to pretend to be Wurt (they can’t hire Merm) 

I don't think this part is necessary though aside from fixing the work around for allowing them to hire merm guards.

[Bumber64]

16 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Rock Lobsters for strength punching boulders like Merm Folk.

Pretty sure rock lobsters can't leave caves and they walk extremely slowly. They're meant to be used for their defensive ability.

Edit: Wiki mentions they have behavior on the surface, but doesn't specify how to get them there. Pretty sure they don't follow through shard change.

[BeastNleashed]

On 6/19/2024 at 5:14 AM, Frosty_Mentos said:

Maybe they would be less efficient and a bit shoddy at their work in comparison, but just the idea of pigs wielding hoes or pickaxes would be nice to exist and help other players.

I know much of this is Wurt exclusive, but some followers are not Wurt's and they could use a bit of slightly similar level of love imo :I

yeah make Wurt even more useless thanks.

[Frosty_Mentos]

14 hours ago, BeastNleashed said:

yeah make Wurt even more useless thanks.

yea well - cry about it. There's Maxwell and such characters or Bearger for these things.

[SapoLover]

I would like to remind people that pigs: need meat to be tamed, they are hired one by one, can't work during dusk and night, can't work in the caves, are bad followers for fighting outside hound waves, and don't have access to the merm king buffs.

Even if pigs could break boulders with their bare hands, they would not make Wurt any less of a good choice.

[Mysterious box]

Just now, SapoLover said:

I would like to remind people that pigs: need meat to be tamed, they are hired one by one, can't work during dusk and night, can't work in the caves, are bad followers for fighting outside hound waves, and don't have access to the merm king buffs.

Even if pigs could break boulders with their bare hands, they would not make Wurt any less of a good choice.

Meat is more readily available than non meat items which balances out the 1 by 1 recruitment, pigs can work long distances from the player when it comes to chopping wood, they can't work at night but they can still fight at night, they can free you from ewcus mucus, they hit harder than normal merms in combat pre king's blessing and are actually decently capable in combat in groups they also give much better loot than merms when they die they may not be as durable but I don't think they're bad followers people are just too caught up in using them for their drops.

[NPCMaxwell]

On 6/20/2024 at 2:37 PM, Bumber64 said:

Pretty sure rock lobsters can't leave caves and they walk extremely slowly. They're meant to be used for their defensive ability.

Edit: Wiki mentions they have behavior on the surface, but doesn't specify how to get them there. Pretty sure they don't follow through shard change.

Well they would be restricted as followers for cave-playing obviously, but considering followers don't follow endlessly, and rocks in caves existing doesn't make it sound to outlandish. Also that doesn't take away their original usage.

[SapoLover]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

Meat is more readily available than non meat items which balances out the 1 by 1 recruitment, pigs can work long distances from the player when it comes to chopping wood

You can hire 3-4 merms for about half a day with a single seed. I'm not so sure about the long distance work, but I assure you they do get easily distracted and have to be re-assigned frequently.

15 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

people are just too caught up in using them for their drops

It's hard not to because their value alive is just to gather wood early game. Before evil Bearger comes and apparently replaces every gatherer character.

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, SapoLover said:

You can hire 3-4 merms for about half a day with a single seed. I'm not so sure about the long distance work, but I assure you they do get easily distracted and have to be re-assigned frequently.

have you tried pigs recently because I use them with Walter and I don't seem to have this issue they keep working until they get so far they teleport to you. Also consider that meat overall has a higher hunger value to other food types meaning you'll hire pigs for much longer per feeding. Merms only recruits 2 other merms when feeding one while guards can recruit 5 others but that requires a king.

6 minutes ago, SapoLover said:

It's hard not to because their value alive is just to gather wood early game. Before evil Bearger comes and apparently replaces every gatherer character.

They have a equal combat ability to a default merm.

[SapoLover]

12 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

have you tried pigs recently because I use them with Walter and I don't seem to have this issue they keep working until they get so far they teleport to you.

I have done it in the current update not in beta, but I'm sure their behavior haven't changed.

12 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Also consider that meat overall has a higher hunger value to other food types meaning you'll hire pigs for much longer per feeding. 

Half of that time they can't do anything because dusk arrives.

12 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

They have a equal combat ability to a default merm.

I hardly believe anyone uses them outside treeguards and hounds, so their strongest value is still dropping pig skin. Really pigs need a buff, they were kinda left behind with all the updates.

[Mysterious box]

22 minutes ago, SapoLover said:

have done it in the current update not in beta, but I'm sure their behavior haven't changed.

What are they getting distracted on? Seeds?

22 minutes ago, SapoLover said:

Half of that time they can't do anything because dusk arrives.

They can still fight since they'll teleport closer to you as you get far from them and their aggro overrides their fear.

22 minutes ago, SapoLover said:

hardly believe anyone uses them outside treeguards and hounds, so their strongest value is still dropping pig skin. Really pigs need a buff, they were kinda left behind with all the updates.

This is more so because other people playing other characters tend to focus on their character abilities rather than followers as they don't use the other followers for the same reason. The only reason merms and spiders see more use is because they have characters based around them.

I think it should be stated again that I'm not against them getting another ability as long as it doesn't step on the toes of specialized followers.

[SapoLover]

6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

What are they getting distracted on? Seeds?

No, they just stop working even if there are trees nearby. They just stop and say "Ah, yes. Will come with you".

8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

This is more so because other people playing other characters tend to focus on their character abilities rather than followers as they don't use the other followers for the same reason. The only reason merms and spiders see more use is because they have characters based around them.

Eh, could be that people are not as invested because they want to use their character's unique follower, but I think it's more because they're not as good as the other options. Wurt doesn't use regular merms for combat, she uses guards with more damage and health. And Webber doesn't use 10-20 spiders, he uses 2^infinity, and also uses medic and sniper spiders to make them even more tougher. You don't see pig set up for Dragonfly, you see bunnies which have more dps.

[arubaro]

On 6/20/2024 at 2:37 PM, Bumber64 said:

Pretty sure rock lobsters can't leave caves and they walk extremely slowly. They're meant to be used for their defensive ability.

Edit: Wiki mentions they have behavior on the surface, but doesn't specify how to get them there. Pretty sure they don't follow through shard change.

That surface behavior must be code from DS single player where they could go to the surface (and become a invasive unstoppable specie)

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, SapoLover said:

No, they just stop working even if there are trees nearby. They just stop and say "Ah, yes. Will come with you".

Honestly that might be a bug not completely sure though because I do know there are times where they just keep working.

1 hour ago, SapoLover said:

Eh, could be that people are not as invested because they want to use their character's unique follower, but I think it's more because they're not as good as the other options. Wurt doesn't use regular merms for combat, she uses guards with more damage and health. And Webber doesn't use 10-20 spiders, he uses 2^infinity, and also uses medic and sniper spiders to make them even more tougher. You don't see pig set up for Dragonfly, you see bunnies which have more dps.

Early game Wurt's do use normal merms for combat specifically because merm guards require quite abit of setup. Pigs should not be as valuable as specialized followers nor should they be better combatants than bunnymen as that's all they do I don't see why pigs specifically should powercreep all other potiental universally avaliable followers each should have their own specialty.

I know your not asking but if you want my opinion here's what klei should do.

Remove pigs getting distracted while working and let them bring logs to the player.

Allow rock lobsters to mine boulders as this will be very helpful for post shadow rift cave play.

And I think bunnymen can stay as is a good combatant with hp regen.

[Thieta]

I disagree entirely with most of the thread here.
I don't believe that pigmen need to be reworked to become slightly worse merms... It just screams "I want what they have!" not gonna lie. This is wurt's followers and what makes her unique and because of that noone else will have access to it. If you dislike that then either play as wurt or play with a wurt - Multiplayer game... Whole point tbh.

I do believe that pigs should be reworked more around their utility and possibly farm stuff but I can't think of much way to change them around without wilba being implemented soon or part of her skill tree... And even then they shouldn't be reskinned merms. Their utility and reason for hiring has to be entirely different. Instead I believe they should be able to do small tasks around the base to help the player survive (This is more newbie/lazy focused) like refueling the fire, If you drop a stack of rocks infront of them they will turn them into cut stone, sniffing up truffles (Once every few days on a farm plot?) which would be a nifty health/sanity food, They can roll around in mud in the summer which gives them a small/decent AOE temperature down nonstacking buff (Keeping you slightly cool but you'll overheat if no shelter) Stuff like that.

When wilba comes around I would love for them to change not in terms of combat or farming but more in a social aspect... Wilba can turn one into a trader allowing potentially unique items or access to stuff that would be tedious in exchange for others, Guards that cannot be hired but will instead protect your base (putting out any fires/Hounds/ETC), Possible way to tame werepig followers (Wilba only ofc)

This gives them value in their own unique way - While also making them valuable in worlds with a wurt and not just having them around for pig skin farming, This also incentives wurt to put a clever disguise on one to tame them since they offer some unique things her merms can't do.

Stop looking at how to make pigmen into merms/worse merms and look into ways to actually make them unique, We can't devalue wurts entire update by giving her buffs that she has to spend points on to the other followers as base game, It's nonsensical and klei won't even consider it.

[BeastNleashed]

9 hours ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

yea well - cry about it. There's Maxwell and such characters or Bearger for these things.

Bro yourself crying here or why else would you want that? Then  just take Bearger or Maxwell i guess? You easy solved your own problem. 

[Frosty_Mentos]

9 hours ago, BeastNleashed said:

Bro yourself crying here or why else would you want that? Then  just take Bearger or Maxwell i guess? You easy solved your own problem. 

Pigs or bunnymen to do additional work would ease gameplay a bit imo. Bunnies for farming and pigs for labor, what else is there to really say? Maybe rock lobsters for sniffing out fossils/deep cave mining.

As mentioned also, Pigs and bunnies only work during certain times of the day, while Wurt's can do anytime. It wouldn't make Wurt useless but still kept as most convenient follower hiring wise.

[Bumber64]

16 hours ago, NPCMaxwell said:

Well they would be restricted as followers for cave-playing obviously, but considering followers don't follow endlessly, and rocks in caves existing doesn't make it sound to outlandish. Also that doesn't take away their original usage.

So which follower mines boulders on the surface? Are you even going to save time having rock lobsters mine in caves, or waste it waiting for them to catch up to you?

And that original usage would still be all they're good for, because they range from painfully slow to completely immobile (when attacked).

[NPCMaxwell]

5 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

So which follower mines boulders on the surface? Are you even going to save time having rock lobsters mine in caves, or waste it waiting for them to catch up to you?

And that original usage would still be all they're good for, because they range from painfully slow to completely immobile (when attacked).

It would only be an optional usage that would apply to caves. That's all? I don't think there is any checklist in DST of mechanics you /have/ to use.

[Mysterious box]

6 hours ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Pigs or bunnymen to do additional work would ease gameplay a bit imo. Bunnies for farming and pigs for labor, what else is there to really say? Maybe rock lobsters for sniffing out fossils/deep cave mining.

As mentioned also, Pigs and bunnies only work during certain times of the day, while Wurt's can do anytime. It wouldn't make Wurt useless but still kept as most convenient follower hiring wise.

Considering Wurt has to spend skill points for some of these features that would still be a problem unless they drop the merm upgrades down to base kit the best solution still seems to be giving each follower a focus instead.