I Return Again, Morning Star Recharge

[Radicaljoe]

I am once again asking, please let me recharge morning stars at a generator. I love the weapon ,but it's so expensive to make one and use it as a common weapon.

[Gotheran]

it really does need a balance change, it burns out too quick if you just hold it, make it lose like 1% every 5 day segments but 2-5% when used as a weapon and 10% when its used on a wet target? and then some way of recharging it so it can continue to be used instead of having to extinct the voltgoats everytime you need a new one, it already has a ton of downsides with its damage mainly coming from wetness and many enemies you wish it would work on can't get wet (crab king) or you have to wait till spring to use it, its quite frustrating it can't be combo'd with waterballons or something.

[GreenBowers]

Please buff morning star in this way. The weapon could really use it.

[Captain_Rage]

Add electric eels and let them interact with the weapon, or give the current (pun intended) eels a way to interact with it. Nice?

[Gotheran]

50 minutes ago, Captain_Rage said:

Add electric eels and let them interact with the weapon, or give the current (pun intended) eels a way to interact with it. Nice?

electric whip weapon

[Primalflower]

i would love it so much if this were the case

[chirsg]

msv2.

[BeeClops]

I think it's in a fine place as is, 1 horn is not too expensive for what it gives, a viable weapon with a good amount of uses.

And of course it wears quickly if you hold it it's not meant to work as a lantern, it still has plenty of durability, you can kill any boss probably except misery toad with it as any character without needing another weapon (a wet target, obv). No need to make it charged elding spear 2.0

[chirsg]

2 hours ago, BeeClops said:

No need to make it charged elding spear 2.0

Elding spear is better than morning star in almost every way, except how it produces light. Even if the morning star were rechargable, it would be inferior to the elding spear in terms of damage, and I'm merely talking about the uncharged elding spear. 

On wet targets, elding does 89 damage and morning star does 72 damage.

Base without wetness, elding does 59 damage and morning star does like 42 or something.

 

There is no planet in the universe where morning star would EVER be elding spear 2.0. 

 

Morning star is more like an elding spear 0.2

[Radicaljoe]

The beta is nearing its end, I fear for the worst my friends. 

My dream I fear, is dead.

[Primalflower]

please.... let it happen...

[Gotheran]

On 6/17/2024 at 5:42 AM, BeeClops said:

I think it's in a fine place as is, 1 horn is not too expensive for what it gives, a viable weapon with a good amount of uses.

And of course it wears quickly if you hold it it's not meant to work as a lantern, it still has plenty of durability, you can kill any boss probably except misery toad with it as any character without needing another weapon (a wet target, obv). No need to make it charged elding spear 2.0

Its utility as both a good light source and a weapon at the same time is unique but its usability is too low to make it worth while, in addition to the horn cost, one horn might not sound like alot on its own but a max of like 5 or 7 voltgoats spawn into the game at start and i don't know that they multiply much further than that, and you could easily kill all of them without getting a single horn.

It also lasts a grand total of 6 minutes of continuous use, and i'm pretty sure many DST bosses can easily go over the 6 minute mark if you aren't using health nerfs, and even some with health nerfs go over six minutes easy. Both the lantern and miners hat go for 7.8 minutes and are refuelable, the moggles 12 minutes, and the hambat being the only other weapon that functions on a timed life instead of hard durability lasts a whopping ten days or 80 minutes. Letting it be repairable, refuelable, rechargeable, would be a minor buff given the advantage the alternatives have over it. Its damage output isn't even that spectacular outside of the electricity bonus which thanks to Warly is accessible to any weapon.

[BeeClops]

5 hours ago, Gotheran said:

Its utility as both a good light source and a weapon at the same time is unique but its usability is too low to make it worth while, in addition to the horn cost, one horn might not sound like alot on its own but a max of like 5 or 7 voltgoats spawn into the game at start and i don't know that they multiply much further than that, and you could easily kill all of them without getting a single horn.

It also lasts a grand total of 6 minutes of continuous use, and i'm pretty sure many DST bosses can easily go over the 6 minute mark if you aren't using health nerfs, and even some with health nerfs go over six minutes easy. Both the lantern and miners hat go for 7.8 minutes and are refuelable, the moggles 12 minutes, and the hambat being the only other weapon that functions on a timed life instead of hard durability lasts a whopping ten days or 80 minutes. Letting it be repairable, refuelable, rechargeable, would be a minor buff given the advantage the alternatives have over it. Its damage output isn't even that spectacular outside of the electricity bonus which thanks to Warly is accessible to any weapon.

goats multiply really fast and you can spawn multiple new herds every spring. Plus it's one of the farms that can easily be automated. It's really not expensive at all, you might not have one in the first autumn but that's about as limiting as it gets.

As for bosses I mean you can kill any of them if you swap when you are not hitting them, if you hold the item all the time then yes you probably will go over 6 minutes on some and wear it out, but there's no reason to do that. 

As for it lasting less than moggles and miner hats, yeah, as it should. 

My problem is that just because most end game items are now refuelable it doesn't mean we have to make everything refuelable, let those let game items feel late game and unique. The eye mask I think is all right because it has a 15 day cooldown anyway. 

 

[chirsg]

6 hours ago, BeeClops said:

My problem is that just because most end game items are now refuelable it doesn't mean we have to make everything refuelable, let those let game items feel late game and unique. The eye mask I think is all right because it has a 15 day cooldown anyway. 

 

The basis of the possibility of it being refuelable via generator is that it's a pretty underwhelming weapon. It has a sub 50 damage breakpoint. If it has a 72 damage breakpoint on wet targets, that's not even enough to kill black hounds in 2 hits.

Having it be a viable alternative to a torch in the night, all the while letting it be a rechargable weapon is reasonable based on how weak it is. It's such a cool weapon hindered by it quite frankly, not being sorely worth crafting.

Hit up a Wigfrid and you get a superior lightning weapon. Wolfgang is able to clear 150 damage on wet targets using it.

[Gotheran]

9 hours ago, BeeClops said:

As for bosses I mean you can kill any of them if you swap when you are not hitting them, if you hold the item all the time then yes you probably will go over 6 minutes on some and wear it out, but there's no reason to do that.

Not everyone plays like that, i for one don't enjoy hotswapping more than some log armor over my backpack in any given combat situation, and balancing the game around that idea is nonsense. Casual players shouldn't have to adapt to speedrunner tactics just to keep up.

9 hours ago, BeeClops said:

As for it lasting less than moggles and miner hats, yeah, as it should.

Why should it?

9 hours ago, BeeClops said:

My problem is that just because most end game items are now refuelable it doesn't mean we have to make everything refuelable, let those let game items feel late game and unique. The eye mask I think is all right because it has a 15 day cooldown anyway.

Endgame DST is its own massive can of worms, and a level of effort the average player I doubt is going to want to put in everytime they want to play, I know for my part I recently tried to play a new world to play as WX to get a feel for his rework and as I had already done everything except fuel weaver pretty much I had no interest in taking my game that far a second time. The rewards while powerful just aren't worth the effort, and aren't useful for any additional challenges you may face since you've cleared the worst the game had to get it.

The fact is for what it is the Morning Star has always been a subpar item, made even more subpar by the miners hat being reworked to accept fuel, the existence of moggles and the lantern, WX's rework giving him a lightbulb circuit and night vision, glow berries, the new night berries, the star caller staff, and just every other possible mobile light source, while being a subpar weapon that lasts almost no time.

My above suggestion was maybe a bit over generous at 1% durability loss per 5 day segments which equates to about 4 hours of continuous use as a light alone which I will gladly agree is too high but even at 2% per 5 day segments it would be closer to 15 days which is still a bit high if all you use it as is a torch but its also a weapon and changing it to accept durability loss through combat in addition to over time would make it functionally last probably on average closer to 2-3 days if you use it alot. Now I suppose with that much of a buff refueling becomes far more moot but the point wasn't to have the exact numbers but rather a reworked concept that makes an item most players pass on because of its highly niche utility more appealing to use.

If you have a genuine reason why the item shouldn't be reworked I'd love to hear it but sofar I'm just hearing you be against change for the sake of it.

[Cyrefy]

I think the idea of recharging items using generators is incredible and I think this would add a lot of importance to them, in addition to the Morning Star, I think it would be interesting to consider also recharging Miner hat and Lanterns.

It would be cool to have something other than a ham bat while playing winona in the early game.

[BeeClops]

20 minutes ago, Gotheran said:

Not everyone plays like that, i for one don't enjoy hotswapping more than some log armor over my backpack in any given combat situation, and balancing the game around that idea is nonsense. Casual players shouldn't have to adapt to speedrunner tactics just to keep up.

swapping weapon with walking cane or whatever isn't speedrun tactics, I think most people with a 100 or so hours of gameplay do that. I think the morning star is purposely designed to not be held at all times, and that's good design. 

20 minutes ago, Gotheran said:

Why should it?

because unlike those items it's a firstly a weapon and the best weapon in many fights early on and even later years if you like to play at a slower pace.

I gave you my reasons, I think it gives you plenty for it's price and is in a good place balance wise. I wouldn't mind it lasting a little more, but having an infinite light source and weapon in the same slot with a goat horn and a generator seems too much. 

[Gotheran]

34 minutes ago, BeeClops said:

swapping weapon with walking cane or whatever isn't speedrun tactics, I think most people with a 100 or so hours of gameplay do that. I think the morning star is purposely designed to not be held at all times, and that's good design.

And the rework i suggested would still make it not ideal to hold it 24/7, since you'd still be wasting durability. And swapping between the weapon and cane is absolutely a level of play above what should ever be expected from the player. Making the choice to play like that should be a personal decision not a hard requirement to play.

34 minutes ago, BeeClops said:

because unlike those items it's a firstly a weapon and the best weapon in many fights early on and even later years if you like to play at a slower pace.

Except its not the best weapon, not by a mile as previously discussed due to its incredibly short life span, subpar damage when compared to other early options, and its cost firmly puts it at more of a midgame choice not early. It only excels against specific foes or during one time of the year, and still barely beats out the competition, and its two main purposes are accessible to every weapon due to warly's special meals.

34 minutes ago, BeeClops said:

I gave you my reasons, I think it gives you plenty for it's price and is in a good place balance wise. I wouldn't mind it lasting a little more, but having an infinite light source and weapon in the same slot with a goat horn and a generator seems too much. 

That is the point being debated but you aren't giving reasons you're explaining the items function and how to get it and saying that its balanced without explaining why. It's been pointed out repeatedly that every point it serves is painfully outclassed by other items, claiming that making it a more viable option as a hybrid weapon and lightsource is OP is not a reason, its an opinion.

I certainly agree charging it at a generator seems a bit silly, as it locks recharging it to a specific character, or leaves it to the whims of fate waiting for a lighting rod to get hit. But then it asks you to leave the fight if it runs out mid-fight to go home and recharge, how is that more OP than stuffing lightbulbs into a lantern on the go for pretty continuous light or even a hambat whose damage is more consistent and lasts much longer as a timed life weapon?

[Frosty_Mentos]

Honestly it could sap power from lightning rods, since goats get charged by lightning so why not use lightning rods to recharge? 

The item is nice and can be useful but it DOES really drain too fast. Both a good lightsource and situation item it is slightly costly all things considered.

[Gotheran]

6 hours ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Honestly it could sap power from lightning rods, since goats get charged by lightning so why not use lightning rods to recharge? 

The item is nice and can be useful but it DOES really drain too fast. Both a good lightsource and situation item it is slightly costly all things considered.

Even just that would make it more viable for using spring as a boss killing season, you could setup lightning rods around boss spawns to collect charge so you don't have to keep hot swapping during the fight just to spare the weapons durability. A problem only really shared with torches if you use them for fire damage and those are dirt cheap by comparison.

[arubaro]

18 hours ago, Gotheran said:

Not everyone plays like that, i for one don't enjoy hotswapping more than some log armor over my backpack in any given combat situation, and balancing the game around that idea is nonsense. Casual players shouldn't have to adapt to speedrunner tactics just to keep up.

??? Swapping your weapon with a cane isnt a speed runner tactic, not even a good player tactic but common sense

7 hours ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

The item is nice and can be useful but it DOES really drain too fast. Both a good lightsource and situation item it is slightly costly all things considered

But isnt made to be used like a lantern. If you want that effect just swap a larter with the morning star

It does last a lot if used like a weapon and deals a lot of damage

Is so sad that klei broke all the fine balance making new repairable with cheap cost weapons and no downsides deal more damage than this weapon which was the higher damage weapon before all the non sense from these years

1 hour ago, Gotheran said:

Even just that would make it more viable for using spring as a boss killing season, you could setup lightning rods around boss spawns to collect charge so you don't have to keep hot swapping during the fight just to spare the weapons durability. A problem only really shared with torches if you use them for fire damage and those are dirt cheap by comparison.

Is already very viable for killing bosses in spring and winter (not only viable but the best weapon).  Is just 1 volt goat horn and last really long, you are saving a lot of materials while having more dps than any pre rift non character specific weapon 

On 6/17/2024 at 4:08 PM, chirsg said:

Elding spear is better than morning star in almost every way, except how it produces light

Like that was a good thing... dumb damage boost for a dumb character which also doesnt fit her... what was cool about wigfrid was to use her performance weapon and helmet but suddenly she now knows how to create new weapons and ugly helmets..

Feels like a mod

[Gotheran]

52 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Is already very viable for killing bosses in spring and winter (not only viable but the best weapon).  Is just 1 volt goat horn and last really long, you are saving a lot of materials while having more dps than any pre rift non character specific weapon

The dark sword is stronger by default, a fresh hambat is not much weaker, and for one horn and no GOLD OR NITRE, you get a much cheaper version for all weapons that lasts almost the exact same duration as the full span of the morningstar's full use time.

 

54 minutes ago, arubaro said:

But isnt made to be used like a lantern. If you want that effect just swap a larter with the morning star

If it isn't made to give off light it shouldn't give off light but it does, and it would be a great option for caving if it lasted longer, compromising possible damage for the utility of having light, and if it could be recharged at a lightning rod you'd need to leave the cave to refuel it anyway so it would run out which would encourage not relying on it solely for light and having a lantern, but having an easier option for fighting than having to make the cumbersome menuing to pick up the lantern off your hotbar and drop it to the floor to still see and fight with. It lasting less time as a light source than the lantern while also losing the potential damage, which is mediocre at best, makes it less appealing than just having a regular ass spear and lantern. For the cost of it it needs to be better than it is.

[BeeClops]

On 6/24/2024 at 12:01 AM, Gotheran said:

Except its not the best weapon, not by a mile as previously discussed due to its incredibly short life span, subpar damage when compared to other early options, and its cost firmly puts it at more of a midgame choice not early. 

Ok then. Imagine having such a strong opinion on something you have no idea how it works or how to use it. Forums in a nutshell. It is objectively the best weapon in many situations early to mid game, obviously not overall nobody claimed that, 'as previously discussed'. 

'hey morning star gives less light than a lantern and deals less damage than a spear, it's so trash buff it!' 

do you also hold dark swords at all times once you craft them? Isn't that a huge disadvantage compared to a ham bat? 

[chirsg]

10 minutes ago, BeeClops said:

do you also hold dark swords at all times once you craft them? Isn't that a huge disadvantage compared to a ham bat? 

I hold dark swords all the time when I need nightmare fuel.

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, chirsg said:

I hold dark swords all the time when I need nightmare fuel.

You arent complaining about it should drain less sanity when holded because apparently switching between 2 items is only doable for hardcore speedrunners pros with 3k elo