Please do not rework more old bosses

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Gameplayer143 said:

Bro this video still had the guy still get stunned by the mind control

you're supposed to go to somewhere with no woven shadows near the way between you and FW and have enough distance for him to not reach you before it ends, it's consistent, he can't just run to woven shadows or spawn more even though they already exist near

2 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

The nightmare amulet still seems the better option to use for sanity management, but that still goes in with my complaint about inventory management tedium

it isn't better because getting it requires more time, it's easier but that's the point, you can make the fight easier by spending more time on preparation

[Gameplayer143]

22 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you're supposed to go to somewhere with no woven shadows near the way between you and FW and have enough distance for him to not reach you before it ends, it's consistent, he can't just run to woven shadows or spawn more even though they already exist near

it isn't better because getting it requires more time, it's easier but that's the point, you can make the fight easier by spending more time on preparation

I guess I'll try using this strategy in some time in the future to reconsider my thoughts on FW, but looking at the video it seems to be mainly just luring away Fuelweaver to a corner, waiting and tanking to get in as much hits on him. Not really as engaging a boss fight where youre reacting to the bosses attacks and trying to dodge them as FW only has his skull attack and bone trap attack in the woven phase. Hell even if I hate Bee Queen, theres more to react to the brumble bees chasing you.

 

To the OP of  this thread, are people going to dismiss the idea of trying to rework old bosses just because of CK? Not only is it still in beta but are we forgetting that Klei also reworked Ancient Guardian and also added the mutant variants for the Varg, Bearger and Deerclops (which I'd argue is kind of like reworks for them.) Like is anyone seriously going to say they miss the old Ancient Guardian vs the reworked one?

[cybers2001]

People on these forums have a habit of misconstruing the difference between what is physically possible and what is mentally taxing. Many of us complaining about FW aren’t doing so because we can’t beat him. We’re doing so because the level of effort for a fight that occurs many times over the lifespan of a world is too high, and lategame gear doesn’t do enough to account for that.

Though, personally, I think a minor tweak to number of woven shadows is all it takes to go a long way, and it wouldn’t affect anyone’s existing strategies for the fight.

[grm9]

11 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

I guess I'll try using this strategy in some time in the future to reconsider my thoughts on FW, but looking at the video it seems to be mainly just luring away Fuelweaver to a corner, waiting and tanking to get in as much hits on him

it isn't as simple as it looks

Just now, cybers2001 said:

We’re doing so because the level of effort for a fight that occurs many times over the lifespan of a world is too high, and lategame gear doesn’t do enough to account for that

you don't need much thought at all to kill FW with 4 thuribles, brightshade staff and bone helm

[Gameplayer143]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

it isn't as simple as it looks

Looking at the video it does look that monotonous aside from occasionally hitting woven shadows and unseen hands. The main challenge in the boss fight seems to be more so managing sanity and luring FW to corners as opposed to reacting to his attacks.

[grm9]

Just now, Gameplayer143 said:

Looking at the video it does look that monotonous aside from occasionally hitting woven shadows

try it then, then tell, the hard part is dealing with woven shadows and unseen hands, not FW after you kill them

2 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

The main challenge in the boss fight seems to be more so managing sanity and luring FW to corners as opposed to reacting to his attacks

that's how old bosses work, main attack was made simple to allow you to deal with more complicated attacks like bone cage, unseen hands, mind control and woven shadows

[Guille6785]

4 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

The main challenge in the boss fight seems to be more so managing sanity and luring FW to corners as opposed to reacting to his attacks.

that's what makes it good, if I wanted to play dark souls I would play dark souls instead of DST

[Gameplayer143]

7 minutes ago, grm9 said:

try it then, then tell, the hard part is dealing with woven shadows and unseen hands, not FW after you kill them

If the main challenge is just dealing with the woven shadows and unseen hands then that doesnt sound like a fun challenge to me then. I'd rather have something to react and dodge than deal with sanity management and luring a boss to certain areas.

4 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

that's what makes it good, if I wanted to play dark souls I would play dark souls instead of DST

You mean digging up a bunch of mushrooms, watching your sanity meter and then consuming mushrooms on the right context? Again that doesn't sound as fun as just reacting and dodging the bosses' attacks. Also in Dark Souls theres bosses where you might have to lure them to a certain area in the arena, or manage a meter that isn't your health meter, thing is Dark Souls bosses still have you have to dodge the bosses various attacks. Like in Bloodborne theres bosses that deal poison damage and you have to use antidotes. You still have to fight the boss.

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

If the main challenge is just dealing with the woven shadows and unseen hands then that doesnt sound like a fun challenge to me then. I'd rather have something to react and dodge than deal with sanity management and luring a boss to certain areas

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

try it then, then tell

4 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

You mean digging up a bunch of mushrooms, watching your sanity meter and then consuming mushrooms on the right context? Again that doesn't sound as fun as just reacting and dodging the bosses' attacks

you've entirely ignored that you need to time bone cage dodges during the entire fight and sync woven shadows and unseen hands cds

[Gameplayer143]

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you've entirely ignored that you need to time bone cage dodges during the entire fight and sync woven shadows and unseen hands cds

What do you mean by bone cage dodges? Also timing with the cool downs with woven shadows and unseens hands and syncing them? Jesus christ, are you like timing that in your head? I just said I don't like the inventory management tedium of switching items, I also don't like having to count in my head for cool downs with the added addition of synching them.

[grm9]

Just now, Gameplayer143 said:

What do you mean by bone cage dodges?

making FW do it by being within 12 tiles away from him and going further away than 15 tiles away from him before his hand hits the ground

1 minute ago, Gameplayer143 said:

Also timing with the cool downs with woven shadows and unseens hands and syncing them? Jesus christ, are you like timing that in your head?

no, their cd gets set after last woven shadow and unseen hand die, so you spend as little time as possible between killing them so that he'll do them right after each other like at the start of the fight

[Gameplayer143]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

making FW do it by being within 12 tiles away from him and going further away than 15 tiles away from him before his hand hits the ground

no, their cd gets set after last woven shadow and unseen hand die, so you spend as little time as possible between killing them so that he'll do them right after each other like at the start of the fight

Dude this is some esoteric stuff that you'd need to look at a guide to even know about. Like at least Celestial Champion can give you the tell to use his laser against the lunar crystals, how are you even supposed to know how to dodge his bone cage? Also you need to be that far from him in the first place it seems to even dodge his cage, so I don't know how you'd bait his cage attack to dodge it reliably.

 

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Gameplayer143 said:

I don't know how you'd bait his cage attack to dodge it reliably

why don't you try fighting the boss instead of complaining then?

1 minute ago, Gameplayer143 said:

Dude this is some esoteric stuff that you'd need to look at a guide to even know about

woven shadows and unseen hands cd seems somewhat intuitive and yeah they could add a clue about bone cage dodges existing, why did you think bone cage didn't spawn in the videos?

[Gameplayer143]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

why don't you try fighting the boss instead of complaining then?

woven shadows and unseen hands cd seems somewhat intuitive and yeah they could add a clue about bone cage dodges existing, why did you think bone cage didn't spawn in the videos?

That doesn't answer my question. How do you reliably bait his cage attack to dodge it, the esoteric stuff I was referring to was the bone cage dodging. And even if it was including these things, I'd still say it wouldn't be a fun challenge. 

The bone cage absolutely still spawned in the vidoes, Idk what youre talking about.

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

I'd still say it wouldn't be a fun challenge

you never tried it

3 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

How do you reliably bait his cage attack to dodge it

it's on a timer, you can walk away after he does 2 melee attacks if he casted spikes falling down nearby the ancient gateway before them or if you made him walk from a corner to a corner or 3 otherwise, mind control also extends the timer

[Gameplayer143]

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you never tried it

it's on a timer, you can walk away after he does 2 melee attacks if he casted spikes falling down nearby the ancient gateway before them or if you made him walk from a corner to a corner or 3 otherwise, mind control also extends the timer

I dont have to try something in order to see how it might not be fun for me. Like I dont have to climb mount Everest to think that I'd hate doing it.

Again this stuff with the bone cage is really esoteric and unintuitive especially with mind control extending the timer. Like that seems more like you're relying on exploits or bugs as opposed to actually fighting the boss the devs intended for you to react to.

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

I dont have to try something in order to see how it might not be fun for me

you probably do, since you entirely ignored 2 big parts of the fight when talking about it being simple

3 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

Again this stuff with the bone cage is really esoteric especially with mind control extending the timer

so?

[Gameplayer143]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you probably do, since you entirely ignored 2 big parts of the fight when talking about it being simple

so?

That was because I didn't know that, but knowing about these two other things, I'd still say I'd imagine it'd still be unfun.

Can you not see how if the way to dodge and bait his bone cage attack being esoteric and unituitive might be unfun for me?

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Gameplayer143 said:

Can you not see how if the way to dodge and bait his bone cage attack being esoteric and unituitive might be unfun for me?

now that you know about it, no

[Gameplayer143]

12 minutes ago, grm9 said:

now that you know about it, no

I also described it feels like an exploit or a bug with how unintutive and esoteric it is to deal with the bone cage. Like reread what you said: it's on a timer, you can walk away after he does 2 melee attacks if he casted spikes falling down nearby the ancient gateway before them or if you made him walk from a corner to a corner or 3 otherwise, mind control also extends the timer

Like a lot of that especially with mind control extending the timer is unintutive and esoteric with split second decision making when fighting a boss. Like am I fighting a boss with my own wits or am I just copying someone's exploit they found online?

Im sorry dude, but even with these strategies you put out for me, I dont imagine myself liking Fuelweaver still.

[grm9]

12 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

I also described it feels like an exploit or a bug with how unintutive and esoteric it is to deal with the bone cage. Like reread what you said: it's on a timer, you can walk away after he does 2 melee attacks if he casted spikes falling down nearby the ancient gateway before them or if you made him walk from a corner to a corner or 3 otherwise, mind control also extends the timer

Like a lot of that especially with mind control extending the timer is unintutive and esoteric with split second decision making when fighting a boss. Like am I fighting a boss with my own wits or am I just copying someone's exploit they found online?

Im sorry dude, but even with these strategies you put out for me, I dont imagine myself liking Fuelweaver still

why are you trying to avoid playing the game and trying the strat that much? why is it being hard to figure out on your own even relevant considering that i've told you about it?

13 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

it's on a timer, you can walk away after he does 2 melee attacks if he casted spikes falling down nearby the ancient gateway before them or if you made him walk from a corner to a corner or 3 otherwise, mind control also extends the timer

amount of melee attacks thing is just a way to time the dodges btw, it's just a timer

[Gameplayer143]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

why are you trying to avoid playing the game and trying the strat that much? why is it being hard to figure out on your own even relevant considering that i've told you about it?

amount of melee attacks thing is just a way to time the dodges btw, it's just a timer

Because it's not me naturally figuring out the boss fight and using my own wits, it's just me copying someone else's strategy or exploit which I don't like.

You also left out the part with having the spikes fall down nearby the ancient gateway, luring him to a corner and mind control extending the timer.

[grm9]

7 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

Because it's not me naturally figuring out the boss fight and using my own wits, it's just me copying someone else's strategy or exploit which I don't like

you didn't do that when fighting CC or AG either because there's nothing to figure out so i don't see the issue

7 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

You also left out the part with having the spikes fall down nearby the ancient gateway

that was also a part of the way to time it

7 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

luring him to a corner

what about it?

7 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

mind control extending the timer

so? mind control, bone cage and spikes falling down nearby the ancient gateway extend each others' timers so that he won't e.g. do bone cage right after mind control

[Gameplayer143]

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you didn't do that when fighting CC or AG either because there's nothing to figure out so i don't see the issue

that was also a part of the way to time it

what about it?

so? mind control, bone cage and spikes falling down nearby the ancient gateway extend each other's timers so that he won't e.g. do bone cage right after mind control

I feel like you just keep arguing with me for the sake of arguing and being contrarian because you cant handle that I dont like FW.

Theres things to figure out about AG and CC with stunning AG, the likelyhood you might not have a starcaller staff and dealing with the shadow tentacles, and with CC dealing with lunacy, the gestalts, phase 2 blender attack, his phase 3 crystals and on top of both of them being a lot more mobile to dodge around. All of these are leagues more intuitive to learn while fighting them relatively new.

These things with FW with what said with mind control extending the timer, having the bone attack happen near the portal and luring him into a corner all total into a unituitve and estoteric mess in order to bait out his bone cage attack that the average person would probably never figure out without a guide.

[grm9]

13 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

I feel like you just keep arguing with me for the sake of arguing and being contrarian because you cant handle that I dont like FW

nah, although i probably should stop since it seems apparent that you aren't even going to try the strats

13 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

Theres things to figure out about AG and CC with stunning AG, the likelyhood you might not have a starcaller staff and dealing with the shadow tentacles, and with CC dealing with lunacy, the gestalts, phase 2 blender attack, his phase 3 crystals and on top of both of them being a lot more mobile to dodge around. All of these are leagues more intuitive to learn while fighting them relatively new

you don't really need to figure out much about that, you can just have it happen and realise how to deal with that right after

13 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

These things with FW with what said with mind control extending the timer, having the bone attack happen near the portal and luring him into a corner all total into a unituitve and estoteric mess in order to bait out his bone cage attack that the average person would probably never figure out without a guide

then ask for adding clues about that instead of turning the fight into something like AG and CC that only have 1 extremely easy strat for doing them that you'll do on 1st or 2nd try except dealing with gestalts that spawn out of traps after laser breaks them