Add more consistent ways to find suspicious marble (marble clockwork heads) and atrium big tentacle

[grm9]

Title. Either make it so the atrium big tentacle is always in muddy biome and suspicious marbles spawn in a list of biomes instead of literally anywhere, similarly to mainland lunar altars that you find using astral detector, or make something point to them, e.g. thulecite medallion if ancient key is in your inventory in case of atrium big tentacle and idk what could help find suspicious marble admittedly, maybe divining rod?

Edited March 30 by grm9

[Sir Noel]

The fact that this isn’t already in the game is wild. I would say AFW side is so much more tedious currently, but then I remember Pearl and CK…

[Gashzer]

Exploration is a massive part of DST. I feel if the icons for suspicious marbles was bolder when viewing the map thats all that is needed. 

For big tentacles a way to see which big tentacle leads where like the wormhole skins on the surface, problems solved.

Removing all RNG is bad.

[Frosty_Mentos]

Just making turf around the atrium tenticle or have a setpiece telling that something ancient this way could be good too.

[grm9]

24 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Exploration is a massive part of DST

most things either have rules for where they generate or spawn in multiple places so you're nearly guaranteed to find them or aren't important enough, e.g. pig houses spawn in multiple biomes so you're nearly guaranteed to find them quickly, mosaic is always connected to spawn, muddy biome is always in the centre of the caves and ruins are almost always around the border between a lot of lightbulbs zone and a lot of stalagmites zone, AG's location is indicated by thulecite medallion, lunar's location is usually indicated by straight long borders between land and ocean, often making the world form a C shape etc., those are fine, having something spawn in an entirely random place is bad though

35 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

For big tentacles a way to see which big tentacle leads where like the wormhole skins on the surface, problems solved

that'd be entirely unrelated to the issue because you can already mark the atrium tentacle with something, the problem is that finding the tentacle might require 0-20 minutes depending on RNG

37 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Removing all RNG is bad

RNG like woven shadows in case of FW is fine because you can still consistently deal with it regardless of where they spawn and it prevents you from mindlessly killing the shadows at the same locations and times every fight, forcing you to think about which will reach FW if you won't kill them and which you can kill in time before going back to FW and making him attack you/dodging bone cage, stuff spawning at entirely random places forcing you to spend 0-40 minutes looking for it is bad

47 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Just making turf around the atrium tenticle

that'd still require finding 1-7 big tentacles before finding atrium tentacle though

[Frosty_Mentos]

27 minutes ago, grm9 said:

that'd still require finding 1-7 big tentacles before finding atrium tentacle though

I mean, it removes one of the two issues - distinguishing them to find the one.

[Yuuko]

I think the best solution would be to have the medallion + key identify the tentapillar to the atrium.  The medallion already locates the key / mino for you, so this is more an extension of its function then even adding a new feature.  Doing this would make the hunt for Atrium a lot better - which means less requirement to telepoof to the Atrium from muddy or voidwalking to find it.

[landromat]

Wurt must know which is right

[ChintzyGnat]

Be cooler if the key and shadow atrium show the pillar to atrium.

[DegenerateFurry]

Why not make the shadow atrium an equippable hand-slot item and have it beat faster as you get closer to the atrium tentapillar? Like the divining rod, but creepier.

[Castiliano]

On 3/30/2024 at 11:03 AM, Sir Noel said:

The fact that this isn’t already in the game is wild. I would say AFW side is so much more tedious currently, but then I remember Pearl and CK…

I think they should reduce the number of points needed to get Pearl's Pearl by one point
or increase the possibilities of quests, but with fun options, not that damn chair

Edited April 1 by Castiliano

[Well-met]

dst players when they're forced to play the game

[BalkanCockroach]

14 minutes ago, Well-met said:

dst players when they're forced to play the game

Forumites when there's constructive criticism.

[Sir Noel]

21 minutes ago, Well-met said:

dst players when they're forced to play the game

Ah yes my favorite game of going through the entire caves just to find the single tentapillar leading to atrium. I guess I just missed the part where that was supposed to be fun?

Like the comment above says this type of comment is just frustrating. Discussion on things is healthy… that’s why we’re in a forum. 

Edited April 1 by Sir Noel

[Szczuku]

Tentapillar? Sure

But the marble pieces? No, they are fine as they are

The entire point of earlygame is exploring the overworld, Klei even added map icons for the pieces. They shouldn't spawn in fixed locations

[Reecitz]

51 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Tentapillar? Sure

But the marble pieces? No, they are fine as they are

The entire point of earlygame is exploring the overworld, Klei even added map icons for the pieces. They shouldn't spawn in fixed locations

Sometimes I get the feeling that some people really want to exterminate every ounce of RNG from the game. I understand that there are some cases of RNG that are TOO harsh, but taking away too much of it in general makes the game consistent, sure, but also a bit boring. Changes like that makes the act of speedrunning more appealing I guess, but more casual runs may end up more dull as a result. 

Bottom line, I don't think reworking suspicious marble is a good idea, but reworking how the atrium is located could be; there's a reason why some even resort to voidwalking to find it.

[Yuuko]

28 minutes ago, Reecitz said:

Sometimes I get the feeling that some people really want to exterminate every ounce of RNG from the game. I understand that there are some cases of RNG that are TOO harsh, but taking away too much of it in general makes the game consistent, sure, but also a bit boring. Changes like that makes the act of speedrunning more appealing I guess, but more casual runs may end up more dull as a result. 

Bottom line, I don't think reworking suspicious marble is a good idea, but reworking how the atrium is located could be; there's a reason why some even resort to voidwalking to find it.

I've done the chase for the tentapillar and firmly believe it has too much RNG and needs help.  I've literally spent >half of summer just chasing tentapillars to find the atrium when I can't telepoof to it.  Voidwalking is so much easier lol.  The ask for less RNG is to avoid voidwalking being such a necessary skill to accomplish such a simple task reliably in decent time.  I support this change.

I haven't ever tried speed running the statue pieces.  I know that if I focus on surface exploration and have a mind to put the statues together for the second new moon (day 22) that I can reasonably do this every game.  My guess is the RNG is too much for speed runners.  idk ppl can share their opinion if they feel differently, but this probably makes it pretty low priority b/c they're such a niche group.

Edited April 1 by Yuuko

[grm9]

4 hours ago, Szczuku said:

The entire point of earlygame is exploring the overworld, Klei even added map icons for the pieces

you're still not going to explore the map fully because some biomes have nothing useful that isn't abundant e.g. you're not going to fully explore 2nd deciduous unless you won't find klaus/deers at PK/mosaic, it's worthless, there's nothing useful to be found, shadow pieces force you to explore every part of the map because they can be literally anywhere though, there's also that you could find all 3 on accident or might need to spend 5+ days exploring the entire map by simply running around which isn't fun

4 hours ago, Szczuku said:

They shouldn't spawn in fixed locations

i meant in specific biomes similarly to lunar altars that you dig up using astral detector, they only spawn in deciduous, swamp, rocky, savanna and plains iirc, also, how does RNG make you have fun while searching for shadow pieces anyway? mindlessly running around everywhere where there's no ocean and you didn't reveal the map at isn't fun

3 hours ago, Reecitz said:

Sometimes I get the feeling that some people really want to exterminate every ounce of RNG from the game

i've wrote an example of good RNG that i don't want to get removed in this thread

3 hours ago, Reecitz said:

but also a bit boring

idk how are you having fun simply running around

3 hours ago, Yuuko said:

I haven't ever tried speed running the statue pieces

it's very RNG but that's not even why i'm asking for that to get changed, i don't do pre night 21 shadow pieces because i don't play as wolfgang/walter but spending 5 days looking for pieces because 1 of them spawned in the last biome you've checked isn't fun

[Gi-Go]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

you're still not going to explore the map fully because some biomes have nothing useful that isn't abundant e.g. you're not going to fully explore 2nd deciduous unless you won't find klaus/deers at PK/mosaic, it's worthless, there's nothing useful to be found, shadow pieces force you to explore every part of the map because they can be literally anywhere though, there's also that you could find all 3 on accident or might need to spend 5+ days exploring the entire map by simply running around which isn't fun

I believe they don't spawn on rock turf and maybe on turfless ground. Klei could ban a few more turfs like grass, deciduous, swamp, and desert, making 5-6 less biomes to search. Alternatively, and more preferable is if we could have a range gap so that the heads would always be relatively close to the bodies.

I definitely agree with OP, I've been looking for lost marbles for 7 years now and would really like to find them without so much effort.

As for big tentacles, I'd rather get a 100% chance for orange staff from guardian, make moggles and get to the atrium that way. 

[grm9]

31 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

As for big tentacles, I'd rather get a 100% chance for orange staff from guardian, make moggles and get to the atrium that way

atrium isn't always close enough to teleport into it and forcing people to get moggles even if they don't need them for anything else is lame tbh

Edited April 1 by grm9

[Gi-Go]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

atrium isn't always close enough to teleport into it and forcing people to get moggles even if they don't need them for anything else is lame tbh

Huh. In every world I played atrium was close enough 

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

Huh. In every world I played atrium was close enough 

I've had many where its not.  The Atrium often spawns close enough to telepoof, but has no mechanism to ensure that.  The only sure ways to get there are tentapillars and void walking, and after a few times hunting tentapillars I'm just voidwalking now lol takes WAY too long.  Like 5+ days sometimes.

[Dingle]

Very interested in the tentapillars being changed.

I liked the idea in this thread for the Shadow Atrium beating faster the closer you got to the right Tentapillar. That would be fun. This is my favorite idea now that I've seen it.

A previous idea I had was to limit where the tentapillars could spawn a bit more. They only spawn in select biomes now, but there's a lot of them, and it seems arbitrary what biomes are allowed and which aren't. If they only spawned in the Mushroom Forest biomes, and Muddy that would make sense to me. Or only in the rocky biomes. Some consistency.

Another idea was making it so the Atrium tentapillar ALWAYS spawned in one specific biome. Something that isn't used much. Maybe the underground swamp? Maybe its own new biome that has a ruins theme? Maybe in one of the useless decoy Wilds/Ruins biomes?

Last possible idea I had was just making the ground turf around each tentapillar indicate where it would send you. If it's in the muddy biome but it would send you to the green mushtree biome, the floor around it would be the same as the green mushtree biome, and vice versa. The Atrium tentapillar would have Atrium turf around it, so the big scavenger hunt would remain, but at least they'd be easier to keep track of and you wouldn't have to fight every single one.

Otherwise it's just getting too tempting to voidwalk and skip the whole thing.