Cannibal flower change is not good

[Evelo]

38 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

ppl pretend playing Wormwood is hard, but you just tame a beef for him too - and all his combat perks work on beef.

This is why I detest Beefalo. I picked a character for the character. I don't want to play a Beefalo.

[Yuuko]

9 hours ago, arubaro said:

Sure. Seems like you played maxwell agaisnt spiders with godmode active

I dont like maxwell having such powerful spell and i like creative ways of fighting bosses but if we play the game of judging us i will say that you are mad because you cant beat the last boss by being afk, such creative way, imitating what you watched in a youtube video because fw spanked you ass, and now you come and use dumb arguments which half of the details ignored to fit your "lazy unskilled player" propaganda

I'm not complaining b/c I "can't do x.."  I'm complaining b/c I can do x and more with Maxwell, absolutely everything lureplant did and much worse with Maxwell.  The more I play Maxwell, the more I realize this character defies *any* position against some minor pathing / blocking cheese.  Removing lureplant blocking was worthless.  It does nothing for game balance or fight integrity, and everything to restrict player choice in characters and available strategies..

Edited March 28 by Yuuko

[Mike23Ua]

23 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

Sanity cost is pretty irrelevant actually.  Been playing Maxwell a lot during this beta.  Lureplant being removed "because it breaks the game" while Maxwell is here?  That is a pretty dumb position.

Maybe they just need to nerf the holy high heck out of KB and Mouse point and click controls, cause I can assure you Shadow Prison isn’t that easy to cast on an Xbox Controller… I’ve often “Missed” what I was attempting to imprison.

Same for Willows Fire spells actually.

So yeah Nerf Mouse Controls.. then we will see if Maxwells still too OP.  

[Evelo]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

Maybe they just need to nerf the holy high heck out of KB and Mouse point and click controls, cause I can assure you Shadow Prison isn’t that easy to cast on an Xbox Controller… I’ve often “Missed” what I was attempting to imprison.

Same for Willows Fire spells actually.

So yeah Nerf Mouse Controls.. then we will see if Maxwells still too OP.  

In the Rhymes with Play stream it was mentioned more controller targeting updates are coming. So, yeah there's that.

[Sir Noel]

24 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

Does intent matter?  ppl use lureplant for a strategy, and some ppl don't like it "because this strategy is bad."

Maxwell does the exact same strategy.

What I'm saying is, saying Maxwell does the same thing as an argument for lureplants is flawed because they share the same basis of abusing things like voidwalking/whatever else breaks the AI to be able to get through the fight. You can't just spam shadow prisons in a regular fight due to the restrictions on it, and trying to compare it to lureplants when both of methods of "trapping" the boss require other exploits in the first place seems unfair.

Maxwell's shadow prison was obviously not intended to be able to be used this way, and regardless of how we feel about the lureplant change I feel as though they wouldn't want this ability to be used this way either. Honestly though I don't want to get into what "should" be the case or not, but the Maxwell comparison is just flawed.

13 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

Exactly what Max does, he's actually more egregious.  You don't like Walls in dfly fight?  Welcome to Maxwell who prevents lavae from ever spawning.

The main difference here being that you still at least have to dodge Dfly's attacks, but this is getting more into a character analysis thing.

Edited March 27 by Sir Noel

[_zwb]

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Maybe they just need to nerf the holy high heck out of KB and Mouse point and click controls, cause I can assure you Shadow Prison isn’t that easy to cast on an Xbox Controller… I’ve often “Missed” what I was attempting to imprison.

Same for Willows Fire spells actually.

So yeah Nerf Mouse Controls.. then we will see if Maxwells still too OP.  

Maybe you need to give up controller, the game isn't even designed around it... I don't see the point of using controller for worse experience...

[Mike23Ua]

3 minutes ago, Evelo said:

In the Rhymes with Play stream it was mentioned more controller targeting updates are coming. So, yeah there's that.

I mean I kind like the whole needing to line it up and use it aspect of the prison and willows spells, it makes you need to time your attack casting (similar to trying to hit an enemy with Izanami’s Ultimate move in Smite) So I don’t mind more updates coming… I just hope they don’t end up making the game play itself by Auto-Targeting Enemies with the casting AoEs.

As someone who played smite for many many years.. missing the timing of an ability is oddly somehow part of the fun too.

 

[Faintly Macabre]

2 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Maybe you need to give up controller, the game isn't even designed around it... I don't see the point of using controller for worse experience...

Console players don't have that option, and were not told before they made their purchase that the game would always be developed without much consideration for them.

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Maybe you need to give up controller, the game isn't even designed around it... I don't see the point of using controller for worse experience...

Is it a worse experience though? Or a more properly balanced one that PC should at the very least have the waters tested on.

See because there are key differences (most namely point and click, drag controls and the Range in which abilities and the like can be cast) these all go a very long way in making DST Controller vs DST Mouse almost like playing two different games altogether.

2 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Console players don't have that option, and were not told before they made their purchase that the game would always be developed without much consideration for them.

Or that I’d need to buy a Mouse (which isn’t even supported…) for optimal play experience!

[MondayNight]

Use Max's Shadow Prison, OP, can do better and more controlled everything Lureplants did. Yes, has the downside of being temporary and resource-consuming but what can you do?! No more trapping Bear with "Lure Pen" to "use and abuse", heh. Oh well. Remains to be seen if devs will "fix" panthfinder and the like too, invalidating all farms in the process, aka the charm of DST.

[Sacco]

6 hours ago, Yuuko said:

Sanity cost is pretty irrelevant actually.  Been playing Maxwell a lot during this beta.  Lureplant being removed "because it breaks the game" while Maxwell is here?  That is a pretty dumb position.

maxwell needs a nerf, and he is probably the single character NO ONE and i mean NO ONE can argue about the fact he doesn't need one.

 

[Yuuko]

9 hours ago, Sir Noel said:

What I'm saying is, saying Maxwell does the same thing as an argument for lureplants is flawed because they share the same basis of abusing things like voidwalking/whatever else breaks the AI to be able to get through the fight. You can't just spam shadow prisons in a regular fight due to the restrictions on it, and trying to compare it to lureplants when both of methods of "trapping" the boss require other exploits in the first place seems unfair.

Exactly my point.  Ppl are attacking lureplant strategies "because they break the game."

Well so does Maxwell.

That is my point.  Since you articulated it, go a step further and realize how pointless that makes lureplant blocking removal pointless and petty.  None of the cheese is removed, this is just Maxwell buffs in disguise.  Maxwell breaks AI and pathing just by existing, and violates any "intended" fight structures far worse than lureplant - including Scrappy.

9 hours ago, Sir Noel said:

The main difference here being that you still at least have to dodge Dfly's attacks, but this is getting more into a character analysis thing.

With a wall you need to dodge dfly attack, with Maxwell you don't!

9 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Maybe they just need to nerf the holy high heck out of KB and Mouse point and click controls, cause I can assure you Shadow Prison isn’t that easy to cast on an Xbox Controller… I’ve often “Missed” what I was attempting to imprison.

Same for Willows Fire spells actually.

So yeah Nerf Mouse Controls.. then we will see if Maxwells still too OP.  

If controls are broken, then controls need to be fixed.  Nerfing other things b/c of broken controls is *never* the answer.  Bad controls are artificial difficulty.  I played console a few years ago and did a lengthy suggestion for a control scheme that would be far better than what we have now.  tbh it is *extremely* disappointing that Klei is only *now* making changes to controller and seemingly *only* because of feedback from nerfing lureplant blocking.

tbh as much fun and interesting stuff as this update brought, this is also the most upset and frustrated I've ever been with Klei's development.

Fix controls, and quit killing creativity!  fr

Edited March 28 by Yuuko

[Reecitz]

3 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

I played console a few years ago and did a lengthy suggestion for a control scheme that would be far better than what we have now. 

I would love to hear it! In fact, if you were to make an entire post describing it (or linking it if it already exists) so we can give it enough support for Klei to take it into consideration, that'd be greatly appreciated!

[Yuuko]

3 minutes ago, Reecitz said:

I would love to hear it! In fact, if you were to make an entire post describing it (or linking it if it already exists) so we can give it enough support for Klei to take it into consideration, that'd be greatly appreciated!

I'll probably have to rebuilt it b/c I don't think finding it would be easy.  A lot of stuff gets archived / unlisted.  I should though, Klei said they were going to try to do some more updates to controller and I miss the ability to whiff attacks while messing around with friends.  That glorious controller exclusive whiff attack <3 

Edited March 28 by Yuuko

[Ryusuta]

8 hours ago, Gashzer said:

If the lureplant bug was a funny or exciting bug that the devs are happy with because it adds humour to the game then i would understand why you would want it to stay.

But its not, it completely breaks bosses in the most boring way possible. And if so many DST players use it as their primary way to kill bosses then klei should take offense as this proves that A: certain bosses are way to hard for majority of dst players to kill or B: the fight is so tedious/boring that experienced players dont want to redo the boss legit anymore

The boss fights that exploit broke were already awful to begin with.

[Reecitz]

4 minutes ago, Ryusuta said:

The boss fights that exploit broke were already awful to begin with.

Some would say that's even one of the reasons why they were exploited.

[Ryusuta]

5 minutes ago, Reecitz said:

Some would say that's even one of the reasons why they were exploited.

Absolutely; well said. At least Toadstool isn't a particularly important (or even valuable) boss to fight. Now, if they get rid of Bee strats on Crab King, the world will become a much darker, more terrible place.

[grm9]

8 hours ago, arubaro said:

Sure. Seems like you played maxwell agaisnt spiders with godmode active

I dont like maxwell having such powerful spell and i like creative ways of fighting bosses but if we play the game of judging us i will say that you are mad because you cant beat the last boss by being afk, such creative way, imitating what you watched in a youtube video because fw spanked you ass, and now you come and use dumb arguments which half of the details ignored to fit your "lazy unskilled player" propaganda

that's entirely unrelated to you being an elitist and fixing cheeses not benefitting anyone, you should change yourself instead of the game, also, a lot of people know how to kill FW but use cheese anyway, e.g. for killing it after the 1st time in a world

29 minutes ago, Ryusuta said:

The boss fights that exploit broke were already awful to begin with

subjective, FW is the best boss in the game imo and toadstool only needs a bit less hp

1 hour ago, Sacco said:

maxwell needs a nerf, and he is probably the single character NO ONE and i mean NO ONE can argue about the fact he doesn't need one

no need, removing strats only makes the game less fun so you could only make his perks harder to use so they'd be as fun to use as against BQ 

[Sacco]

25 minutes ago, grm9 said:

no need, removing strats only makes the game less fun so you could only make his perks harder to use so they'd be as fun to use as against BQ 

maxwell needs something to make him more challenging imo.

having a 95% damage reduction with no downsides completely removes his health downside.

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, Sacco said:

maxwell needs something to make him more challenging imo.

having a 95% damage reduction with no downsides completely removes his health downside

it never was an impactful downside because you could always use a football helm and not get oneshotted by anything except planar and removing night armor passive sanity drain immunity wouldn't make playing as him harder nor more fun because you can still use beefalo or stay away and keep all enemies shadow prisoned 

[Gi-Go]

You know you messed up when even Chinese players come to your forums to complain. 

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Sacco said:

maxwell needs something to make him more challenging imo.

having a 95% damage reduction with no downsides completely removes his health downside.

What’s with people thinking these characters need to have these incredibly harsh downsides that make playing them at all absolutely no fun..? Lol what NEEDS to be changed is some of the games existing mobs behaviors and mechanics.

Heres an example: Klei coded Bunnymen to tunnel into the ground and back up but only in a super silly little mini-game for the Year of the Bunny Pillow Fight Update.

Maxwell shouldn’t be able to shadow prison a mob that can tunnel its way out.

Willows Fire spells shouldn’t work on Fire Hounds, Larvae, Dragonfly, other fire based mobs etc..

If Klei doesn’t want maxwells (6 second?) shadow prison to work on big bad bosses then they will add additional animations so the bosses can break those shadow pillars.

Surely you don’t expect me to believe that Nightmare Werepig has better pillar breaking animations but areas outside of the boss fight can’t?

[Gi-Go]

11 hours ago, Gashzer said:

If the lureplant bug was a funny or exciting bug that the devs are happy with because it adds humour to the game then i would understand why you would want it to stay.

But its not, it completely breaks bosses in the most boring way possible. And if so many DST players use it as their primary way to kill bosses then klei should take offense as this proves that A: certain bosses are way to hard for majority of dst players to kill or B: the fight is so tedious/boring that experienced players dont want to redo the boss legit anymore

It proves nothing. People like to optimize their world and create auto farms for bosses and resources. It's satisfying to people that's all there is to it. You think lureplant cheese is boring? Who asked? 

[Sacco]

27 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

What’s with people thinking these characters need to have these incredibly harsh downsides that make playing them at all absolutely no fun..? Lol what NEEDS to be changed is some of the games existing mobs behaviors and mechanics.

Heres an example: Klei coded Bunnymen to tunnel into the ground and back up but only in a super silly little mini-game for the Year of the Bunny Pillow Fight Update.

Maxwell shouldn’t be able to shadow prison a mob that can tunnel its way out.

Willows Fire spells shouldn’t work on Fire Hounds, Larvae, Dragonfly, other fire based mobs etc..

If Klei doesn’t want maxwells (6 second?) shadow prison to work on big bad bosses then they will add additional animations so the bosses can break those shadow pillars.

Surely you don’t expect me to believe that Nightmare Werepig has better pillar breaking animations but areas outside of the boss fight can’t?

shadow prison blocking flying enemies has always triggered me, the jump of the AG should just don't care about shadow prison too.

[Faintly Macabre]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

What’s with people thinking these characters need to have these incredibly harsh downsides that make playing them at all absolutely no fun..?

Who are you and what have you done with Mike?