Megabase-ing yes or no

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I feel it'd be hard for me to believe post rift players have no use for fridges, crockpots, and chests even more so on the latter with how many people complain about storage

i personally don't at least

7 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

You can survive without a base just like you can fight with just a axe doesn't mean it's convenient or fun though does it?

imo it's fun and convenient since i don't need to spend time chopping/mining to build stuff and i don't need to wait for crockpots to finish cooking at base or constantly go to base to get food from the fridge and i get enough food from cooking normal meat and monster meat that drops from spiders, hounds and bosses  

15 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Okay here's a better question what do you consider a valid late game survival mechanic?

idk, i'd prefer another boss getting added instead of lunar hail which does nothing, acid rain at least forces you to stay sane using CC crown or use miner hat which does something, unlike lunar hail which you just dodge like earthquakes 

[Yuuko]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

That being said it always feels extremely flawed when I hear people go what's the point of making content that impacts base or resources of the player since survival is too easy when the reason survival is so easy is exactly those things. Often people will even pitch things completely unrelated to survival as solutions saying well this random thing that you'll almost never meet in regular play is far more impactful to your survival than this current thing that's directly impacting how you play.

I don't think megabasing should go away but I do also believe we should be able to have content that actually impacts survival as well for people who still want to play a survival game.

I don't think the structures actually make it that much easier to survive.  I build extremely minimalistic bases and don't find any issue with survival that requires I do more.  Most of what people build, they build because they want to - not because they need to.

In DST the difficulty of survival is a problem only for early / mid game and almost exclusively for inexperienced players who haven't streamlined their path to end-game gear.  The fact is once you know the game survival becomes so easy that it is quite literally pointless to try and tackle it.  Revival becomes extremely easy, having backup resources happens naturally, and even if they destroy an entire biome of megabase the player that built that won't game-over.  Nothing is made harder by deleting all of these structures because the basis of that player overcoming the survival challenges of DST were all present from day 1 of that world.

 

DST just isn't built to have late game survival challenges.  Once you've survived the seasons and cleared the bosses the game would have to do some seriously unfair stuff to add in any significant risk.  We can't open up with a world that lets us get 90-95% protection within a few days and complain about late game mobs being unable to damage us.

 

If DST needs survival challenges added they need to be targeted in the early and mid game.  It would require a game-wide re-balancing.  Drops from monsters, food values, item costs, craft tiers and boss rewards, access to reviving - all would need to be redone in order to actually balance the necessity of items with their availability, and the presence of hazards in order for any risk to be introduced to the game.  That's the problem with planar - it tries to reset things with the damage type outta nowhere BUT we're still in a world where we kill a boss once and we get an amazing boss loot, we're still in a game where we build a lightning rod and forget about lightning.  Any new thing added has to follow this pattern - so when we get boulders dropping in caves we need our boulder lightning rod to stop that.  When we get our DarkSword+ even though it has planar which forces us to use it against the new mobs it STILL needs to have peak damage AND extra perks on top of that.

There is no way an end-game patch can change the game DST is.  DST is still difficult for new players, and the progression from early to mid and late game is still an experience that can have risk.  But fr once you've reached a certain point in the game there just can't be any threat left b/c all of the methods to survive are all present from day 1.  If you destroy a base you don't increase risk or introduce challenge, no more than starting a new world day 1 lol

[Uedo]

18 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I firmly believe Klei never intended for players to be able to turn every biome in the game into their one massive Megabase home.

It only got that way because there was not features in the game that discouraged or even out right prevented it, such as for example having the shipwrecked Flurp fishies spawning randomly out of the turf in the Swamp biome.

or having Bee Hives/Killer Bee Hives/Swamp Tentacle Etc respawn like Catcoon Dens will now do if destroyed.

When you can clear out an entire biome so it’s a flat empty wasteland- Of Course the next step was always going to be Landscaping & turning the world into your personal Playground.

I am once again here asking for a simple donation, save a dying man. If you please; Please spare me the pain of the 'barren wasteland' talk, it's been a long month, a new year is dawning.... MIKE XD

Love you really bro, hope you had a nice Christmas! 

Edit: For real though, yeah we should be able to landscape the world. Maxwell built most of it, it's only logical we can un-ravel it.
'There wasn't much here when I showed up. Just dust. And the Void', therefore dust and nothingness are the stable state of the constant, everything more advanced and it will eventually atrophy back to dust, ergo, I want my world all empty and dusty. Au naturel!  

[arubaro]

2 hours ago, Yuuko said:

I don't think the structures actually make it that much easier to survive.  I build extremely minimalistic bases and don't find any issue with survival that requires I do more.  Most of what people build, they build because they want to - not because they need to.

In DST the difficulty of survival is a problem only for early / mid game and almost exclusively for inexperienced players who haven't streamlined their path to end-game gear.  The fact is once you know the game survival becomes so easy that it is quite literally pointless to try and tackle it.  Revival becomes extremely easy, having backup resources happens naturally, and even if they destroy an entire biome of megabase the player that built that won't game-over.  Nothing is made harder by deleting all of these structures because the basis of that player overcoming the survival challenges of DST were all present from day 1 of that world.

 

DST just isn't built to have late game survival challenges.  Once you've survived the seasons and cleared the bosses the game would have to do some seriously unfair stuff to add in any significant risk.  We can't open up with a world that lets us get 90-95% protection within a few days and complain about late game mobs being unable to damage us.

 

If DST needs survival challenges added they need to be targeted in the early and mid game.  It would require a game-wide re-balancing.  Drops from monsters, food values, item costs, craft tiers and boss rewards, access to reviving - all would need to be redone in order to actually balance the necessity of items with their availability, and the presence of hazards in order for any risk to be introduced to the game.  That's the problem with planar - it tries to reset things with the damage type outta nowhere BUT we're still in a world where we kill a boss once and we get an amazing boss loot, we're still in a game where we build a lightning rod and forget about lightning.  Any new thing added has to follow this pattern - so when we get boulders dropping in caves we need our boulder lightning rod to stop that.  When we get our DarkSword+ even though it has planar which forces us to use it against the new mobs it STILL needs to have peak damage AND extra perks on top of that.

There is no way an end-game patch can change the game DST is.  DST is still difficult for new players, and the progression from early to mid and late game is still an experience that can have risk.  But fr once you've reached a certain point in the game there just can't be any threat left b/c all of the methods to survive are all present from day 1.  If you destroy a base you don't increase risk or introduce challenge, no more than starting a new world day 1 lol

Totally agree. I think devs should lose the fear of killing players in late game

We can craft 1000 LGA, makes us die that amount of times and more. Make me want to be cautious instead of making me redo stuff because someone with 5 structure base thinks that trying to destroy such easy to protect base is a challenge 

[Mysterious box]

6 hours ago, grm9 said:

idk, i'd prefer another boss getting added instead of lunar hail which does nothing, acid rain at least forces you to stay sane using CC crown or use miner hat which does something, unlike lunar hail which you just dodge like earthquakes 

Okay but a boss isn't a survival mechanic that's just a fight.

5 hours ago, Yuuko said:

don't think the structures actually make it that much easier to survive.

I mean it's fine to feel that way but that's simply as factually incorrect as saying dealing more damage and taking less damage doesn't contribute to making combat easier. Needing to spend less time gathering food, and gathering resources sorting through your resources makes things easier I can't really see how that's debatable even if you feel you don't need it.

5 hours ago, Yuuko said:

The fact is once you know the game survival becomes so easy that it is quite literally pointless to try and tackle it.

I disagree with it being pointless to tackle as otherwise there's not really a point to new content or the rifts in general infact I feel like that just highlights how poorly balanced resources are and a good reason to rebalance them. As otherwise we'll continue to get 2.0 mechanics and even more systems like planar to keep the game "fresh".

5 hours ago, Yuuko said:

DST is still difficult for new players, and the progression from early to mid and late game is still an experience that can have risk. 

Realistically the only reason for this is because the game lacks a tutorial that teaches you the basics of survival which is all you need to survive early to late game excluding the rifts and if learning the basics destroys the experience then perhaps that's a symptom of a bigger issue.

 

5 hours ago, Yuuko said:

If you destroy a base you don't increase risk or introduce challenge, no more than starting a new world day 1 lol

Thing is not every survival threats need to be aimed at a bases structures specifically brightshades are a good example.

3 hours ago, arubaro said:

Totally agree. I think devs should lose the fear of killing players in late game

They really can't because you can only go so far with combat before your basically instant killing players which is a bad thing by the way and poor game design you can only make combat so unique without a complete combat rework.

 

3 hours ago, arubaro said:

Make me want to be cautious instead of making me redo stuff because someone with 5 structure base thinks that trying to destroy such easy to protect base is a challenge 

I sincerely doubt there's any late game players going around with 5 structures I'll stand by anyone saying they do being a liar mnmalso let's be real death is as cheap as structures if you really wanted a challenge attacking resources would be the real way to go as people shrug off most content specifically because of how abundant resources are

[arubaro]

7 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Okay but a boss isn't a survival mechanic that's just a fight.

I mean it's fine to feel that way but that's simply as factually incorrect as saying dealing more damage and taking less damage doesn't contribute to making combat easier. Needing to spend less time gathering food, and gathering resources sorting through your resources makes things easier I can't really see how that's debatable even if you feel you don't need it.

I disagree with it being pointless to tackle as otherwise there's not really a point to new content or the rifts in general infact I feel like that just highlights how poorly balanced resources are and a good reason to rebalance them. As otherwise we'll continue to get 2.0 mechanics and even more systems like planar to keep the game "fresh".

Realistically the only reason for this is because the game lacks a tutorial that teaches you the basics of survival which is all you need to survive early to late game excluding the rifts and if learning the basics destroys the experience then perhaps that's a symptom of a bigger issue.

 

Thing is not every survival threats need to be aimed at a bases structures specifically brightshades are a good example.

They really can't because you can only go so far with combat before your basically instant killing players which is a bad thing by the way and poor game design you can only make combat so unique without a complete combat rework.

 

I sincerely doubt there's any late game players going around with 5 structures I'll stand by anyone saying they do being a liar mnmalso let's be real death is as cheap as structures if you really wanted a challenge attacking resources would be the real way to go as people shrug off most content specifically because of how abundant resources are

If you can't see the difference between needing to fight perfectly while managing things like acid rain, sanity, etc and just wasting resources on rebuilding a set piece with 0 propuse I think debating it won't make sense which didn't already when we debated about fire hound dealing more damage instead of making fire areas that only megabasers care...

Combat can be simply "press F to hit" and still being fun like fighting daywalker, sharkboy, Klaus, hamlet's scorpions, sw's dragoons, trios of brightshades, celestial champion or the ink trio (without using BS staff). It also can be punishing without requiring 1hit KO...like rats in uncompromising mod

[grm9]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

Okay but a boss isn't a survival mechanic that's just a fight

ik, that's why i've said i'd prefer one instead of the current attempts at adding things that aren't fights and are supposed to make the game harder, like lunar hail 

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I sincerely doubt there's any late game players going around with 5 structures

that depends on what do you consider to be late game, a screenshot from one of my recent worlds, 6 if you count garden as one (items are thrown around to make them easier to see without chests, also sometimes dropping stuff off when leaving base)

11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean it's fine to feel that way but that's simply as factually incorrect as saying dealing more damage and taking less damage doesn't contribute to making combat easier

fights take less time if you deal more damage, but getting food doesn't become faster if you use structures at base because they're hardly worth the time spent making them and waiting for them to finish cooking in case of crockpots or returning to base to take stuff from the fridge 

[Mike23Ua]

I think you guys are somewhat missing the point here, it’s not about having your base spontaneously explode.. it’s NEVER been about having your base spontaneously explode, the part of the game that’s always bothered me (and why I delete my saved world and start over by like day 500) is that ONCE you build that base, and your settled into it- You really have no actual reason to LEAVE that base unless your going out to tackle completely optional boss fights tucked away in some obscure corners of the map.

And to further drive that fact home- even KLEI has started to realize this by giving Deerclops, Bearger & Vargs upgraded Lunar boss designs- because these things come to YOU & not the other way around.

Its why you suddenly have Brightshades in your business rather than setting sail to play around with Seaweeds.

and for me personally I actually WANT mobs and hazards to be able to damage and wreck up my base- not because having my base destroyed makes the game anymore “challenging” but because IF that stuff gets damaged or destroyed then I need to leave the safety of my base to go out and gather supplies to FIX my base & it’s what you encounter on your way to gather supplies & safely return back home with them that should make up all the challenge.

Be honest here- For once I want everyone on these entire forums to be honest…

How often do you ACTUALLY interact with Cookie Cutters after you’ve built your Salt Boxes? How frequently do you revist this part of the game just to repair or upkeep your salt boxes?

You don’t, end of story…

But you WOULD if Pig Raids (like the ones seen in Klei’s animated shorts) happened where they raid your camp, smash your food stashes, eat up your food and FORCE you to leave your safety bubble to go out and collect more food/restore your salt boxes.

So again I’ll repeat myself, DST only ever became a Megabase game, because a good majority of its content… is something you’ll interact with ONCE per game world, and then never have any reason to EVER revisit that area of the game again unless you just wanted to add an extra 300th Saltbox to your kitchens..

[grm9]

1 minute ago, arubaro said:

Combat can be simply "press F to hit" and still being fun like fighting daywalker, sharkboy, Klaus, hamlet's scorpions, sw's dragoons, trios of brightshades, celestial champion or the ink trio (without using BS staff)

imo those are examples of the less fun fights, FW and BQ in case of some strats are better, it'd be hard for klei to add more fun fights since adding complex dodges would be bad because multiplayer, latency etc.

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

And to further drive that fact home- even KLEI has started to realize this by giving Deerclops, Bearger & Vargs upgraded Lunar boss designs- because these things come to YOU & not the other way around

you can burn the corpses using a torch to ignore their existence 

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

You really have no actual reason to LEAVE that base unless your going out to tackle completely optional boss fights tucked away in some obscure corners of the map

do you want CC to come to your base at day 200 even if you didn't do anything to summon it and there's no reason for it to appear or do you want the world to deteriorate as long as those bosses are alive or what 

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

How often do you ACTUALLY interact with Cookie Cutters after you’ve built your Salt Boxes?

i don't build salt boxes

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

But you WOULD if Pig Raids (like the ones seen in Klei’s animated shorts) happened where they raid your camp, smash your food stashes, eat up your food and FORCE you to leave your safety bubble to go out and collect more food/restore your salt boxes

if that would get added i'd just place the five things that i have at base (one during most of the first year) in the caves and that's it   

[arubaro]

30 minutes ago, grm9 said:

that depends on what do you consider to be late game, a screenshot from one of my recent worlds, 6 if you count garden as one (items are thrown around to make them easier to see without chests, also sometimes dropping stuff off when leaving base)

Funny that you have more structures than needed to survive 

I'm honestly curious about how claiming that you need more stuff that the things shown in your screenshot play the game... all this "megabasers make the game easier" drama comes from unexperience people wanting fancy destruction that doesnt affect survival so they feel like they are overcoming a challenge...

Most of my megabase starts with a boss rush with a "base" as small as half screen with 4 chests to prevent hounds and basilisk eating my stuff, alchemy engine, lighting rod, shadow manipulator, 4 crackpot and 1 ice box... nothing else. Defending such small base is super easy, just walk 5 seconds... people must be horrible at playing the game but instead of learning they expend time here saying non sense

27 minutes ago, grm9 said:

imo those are examples of the less fun fights, FW and BQ in case of some strats are better, it'd be hard for klei to add more fun fights since adding complex dodges would be bad because multiplayer, latency etc

There are colours for all tastes... imo those are the most dynamic fights. I don't like bosses and mobs like DF or beefalos that stare at you while you hit them

I didnt mentioned fw and company because I was just naming enemies that you defeat with only F but still the fight is fun for needing to kite patterns with more complexity than Deerclops

I don't think high latencies should be considered while making games when most countries has access to high quality connections and this game can run in old computers 

 

Btw. What method to kill BQ you consider fun? Because there you can beat her in many ways but very few are fun

[grm9]

26 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Funny that you have more structures than needed to survive

until day 62 or so there was just the alchemy and the garden made for a potato, should've probably just swapped to and from warly though  

26 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Btw. What method to kill BQ you consider fun? Because there you can beat her in many ways but very few are fun

shadow prison and moon shrooms combined with bramble husk as wormwood, although simply using bramble husk without moon shrooms is easier and better sadly 

26 minutes ago, arubaro said:

I don't think high latencies should be considered while making games when most countries has access to high quality connections and this game can run in old computers 

the problem isn't high latency, but latency in general, since even 50-70 ping still feels clunky with the current system and would probably be much worse if dodging would become as complex as in games that are about fighting stuff, e.g. souls likes etc.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

If you can't see the difference between needing to fight perfectly while managing things like acid rain, sanity, etc and just wasting resources on rebuilding a set piece with 0 propuse I think debating it won't make sense which didn't already when we debated about fire hound dealing more damage instead of making fire areas that only megabasers care...

Sanity is only a issue for people who intentionally go under prepared into a fight that requires sanity management unprepared, or people who play Walter but are bad at kiting. Acid rain is a minor threat even more so if your actually using the appropriate gear. They're just as minor as structure damage as it stands possibly more impactful as people fear structures being destroyed more as your clearly showing.

Also I'll say what I said before once more noone would fear fire hounds if you simply made it do more damage it's the aoe destruction that people are afraid of not the damage. It's the same reason people are hesitant to use fire gear. It's like saying the reason people are wary of antlion is her damage output. The content people are most cautious around has always been content that does more than just harm you. Look at monkeys, antlion, crab king, etc.

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

Combat can be simply "press F to hit" and still being fun like fighting daywalker, sharkboy, Klaus, hamlet's scorpions, sw's dragoons, trios of brightshades, celestial champion or the ink trio (without using BS staff). It also can be punishing without requiring 1hit KO...like rats in uncompromising mod

I mean if you find fighting that way to be a source of infinite fun more power to ya but I prefer some substance in-between and considering some of the sky high expectations people have for new content I don't think I'm the only one. Also people would lose their crap in klei implemented anything even remotely close to rat waves.

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

ik, that's why i've said i'd prefer one instead of the current attempts at adding things that aren't fights and are supposed to make the game harder, like lunar hail 

The problem here is not everyone enjoys combat focused content this is something people have been very vocal about on the forums and having content so combat focused has already shown negative consequences.

Also it's not like I'm asking for more mechanics like lunar hail there are plenty of ways to make new survival mechanics that aren't just harming structures or earthquakes 3.0

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

fights take less time if you deal more damage, but getting food doesn't become faster if you use structures at base because they're hardly worth the time spent making them and waiting for them to finish cooking in case of crockpots or returning to base to take stuff from the fridge 

So storing food in containers that preserve them for longer doesn't decrease the time you spend getting more food? Using chests doesn't decrease the time you spend sorting through your items? Idk it feels like handicapping yourself.

[Yuuko]

7 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean it's fine to feel that way but that's simply as factually incorrect as saying dealing more damage and taking less damage doesn't contribute to making combat easier. Needing to spend less time gathering food, and gathering resources sorting through your resources makes things easier I can't really see how that's debatable even if you feel you don't need it.

A fridge preserves food, but food is widely available at all points in the game.  The fridge is not needed for survival, it just cuts down on how often we need to source new food.  If I didn't have a fridge I would still not starve, I would just need get food more often.  Most structures are like this.

Breaking up messages is so annoying b/c it makes it really easy to throw context out, clipping messages here and there as if something else was said.

12 hours ago, Yuuko said:

If DST needs survival challenges added they need to be targeted in the early and mid game.  It would require a game-wide re-balancing.  Drops from monsters, food values, item costs, craft tiers and boss rewards, access to reviving - all would need to be redone in order to actually balance the necessity of items with their availability, and the presence of hazards in order for any risk to be introduced to the game.  That's the problem with planar - it tries to reset things with the damage type outta nowhere BUT we're still in a world where we kill a boss once and we get an amazing boss loot, we're still in a game where we build a lightning rod and forget about lightning.  Any new thing added has to follow this pattern - so when we get boulders dropping in caves we need our boulder lightning rod to stop that.

Cut up it looks like you're disagreeing with me, but if you actually read my post you're basically repeating what I already said.

No, there is no point to the rifts in a survival sense.  Nothing brought in from the rifts makes surviving more difficult - only more annoying.  Even if rifts were let loose to destroy our bases that wouldn't actually make it more likely we'd die.  All those pigs are still running around for us to kill, hound waves and bosses coming in, gardens pushing out produce, etc.  Its like that mod that was made YEARS ago that thought it might be challenging to constantly have bosses spawn on you from the start of the game without pause and what they found out was that this mostly just streamlined delivery of food and valuable resources lol.  Since Bright Shades I've never had as much leafy meat piled up.  I'd learn recipes to use it, except I still have everything else piling up too.  Destroying my fridge doesn't matter when I have stacks of rot piled up from all of the food I didn't need a fridge for.

As it is my bases are basically crafting stations with a few chests for organization, a single crock pot and fridge / salt box, and a single field used to grow potatoes once.  Destroying these means nothing to me.  It does mean something to the person who spent literally 100 hours in the world building an amazing city - but what it means is a middle finger.  It doesn't change their survival rate either, just their rate of satisfaction with the game :\ 

I've said it since planar was announced - this is not going to increase survival challenges, or even "fix" anything for game balance.  If they really want to tackle this stuff and make the game a better survival experience they need to start at the beginning.  Tacking on additions to a bad foundation just won't work.

[hoppin mandrake]

Destruction can most definitely impact your ability to survive, it's basically resetting your game. The problem is that destruction itself isn't very harsh in this game at all. Even if an event were to destroy a farm of pig houses that you rely on for meat, you could still reuse half of the material from the rubble to build 50% of what you had before, which is still more than enough food for a player. Likewise if an event were to destroy your storage, all it does is just make a mess of things and throw everything all over the ground instead of being neatly organized in containers. This does nothing but annoy the player, as it's not really resetting anything. There should not be much left after destruction if they want it to actually be impactful.

That said I believe the purpose of buildings being destructible is to inconvenience and simulate the destructive force of nature, such as a tornado or hurricane going through and destroying everything. I find this immersive and fun. I don't mind rebuilding it gives me something to do in the game. I was only mildly annoyed when people complained about hail destroying structures which was later removed. I like destructive elements in the game but understand that it recurring on a loop is equally annoying. I would like total base destruction to be a rare thing but still present in the game. I think that would be fun. Maybe like a 1% chance a year or something, similar to the odds of getting a krampus sack. If it does happen to you then you were just very unlucky.

When I say total base destruction I'm also talking nothing left but maybe some burnable rubble and rocks, items permanently destroyed, etc. Extreme megabasers can just disable this if it bothers them.

However what they really need to add to this game is the regular occurance of SCARCITY. Crops should fail depending on weather conditions, plants shouldn't grow in winter, the reproduction of meat should be slowed at moments (beefalo production/pig regeneration), also a bit higher chance of items becoming non-renewable, such as pigs going extinct and losing access to pig skins or similar.

The way to really add challenging survival mechanics to this game is to take away the plentiful resources AND the regeneration of those resources that players have access to. Yes you can create scarce resources in the world settings but it's a one time selection thing and doesn't change over time, therefore it adds no dynamics to your game. To have the chance of an abundant harvest or a harvest that results in nothing are both equally important, because then you are more inclined to store for future use. Destruction then is important because if you have a massive storage supply of food that never goes bad or never gets destroyed then you will never be challenged. I believe both destruction and scarcity are key to making this game more challenging. This will create a world where you have to make tough choices and survive with handicaps brought on by nature. Therefore destruction should be more impactful and scarcity should be a recurring game element. That is how I'd add challenge to this game.

Also I am a mandrake. All of you are inferior lifeforms.

 

 

11 hours ago, arubaro said:

I think devs should lose the fear of killing players in late game

Definitely agree with this. Also I always disliked that I can now make 5000 meat effigies with no downside other than some temporary damage to my health. I liked it better when it reduced my max health, at least then there was a trade-off. Also I always play without ghosts to make the game more similar to the orginal DS game. Once you die, game over, no second chances.

It's funny to me that all of the late game giants that Klei added recently are still extremely slow, most late game players have a walking stick among others things by that time and can literally kite them for days. I  just killed my first Crystal Deerclops and Crystal Beargar without hitting them a single time. I just kited them into hostile territory where something else did the damage for me. Zero challenge for a late game character.

Brightshades don't even move and can be completely ignored. The last time I felt a threat in this game is when I first started and was attacked by hounds for the first time. I believe they need to crank up the speed of these enemies so they can actually catch up to you and hit you. Late game people likely have dozens of effigies and life giving amulets laying around, they could probably die a dozen times and not be affected.

Klei should definitely start actually trying to kill late game players.

[grm9]

7 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

The problem here is not everyone enjoys combat focused content this is something people have been very vocal about on the forums and having content so combat focused has already shown negative consequences

i don't see much difference between figuring out a way to deal with rain (bleu, umbrella, eyebrella, umbralla, rain coat etc.) and figuring out a way to deal with ANR bosses, i've listed BQ methods often recently so surely you remember the amount somewhat 

7 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

So storing food in containers that preserve them for longer doesn't decrease the time you spend getting more food?

no, because bundling wraps and you get food automatically from killing spiders, hounds and bosses 

7 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Using chests doesn't decrease the time you spend sorting through your items?

no, because you can put items away from each other so they're visible instead of dumping them into one pile and covering most things using other things or making chests and forcing yourself to walk and click through them to see everything   

1 hour ago, hoppin mandrake said:

Maybe like a 1% chance a year or something, similar to the odds of getting a krampus sack. If it does happen to you then you were just very unlucky

making things depend on luck isn't fun 

1 hour ago, hoppin mandrake said:

When I say total base destruction I'm also talking nothing left but maybe some burnable rubble and rocks, items permanently destroyed, etc. Extreme megabasers can just disable this if it bothers them

that encourages you to not have a base which is already probably optimal aside from having an alchemy and the rift stations and will only remove suboptimal ways to play and prevent people that want variety when comparing playthroughs or like building bases from having fun 

1 hour ago, hoppin mandrake said:

I believe they need to crank up the speed of these enemies so they can actually catch up to you and hit you

that wouldn't do anything because they're very easy to fight normally and bearger can already do that after it loses 800 hp after the current stager/start of the fight if it didn't get staggered yet

1 hour ago, hoppin mandrake said:

I always disliked that I can now make 5000 meat effigies with no downside other than some temporary damage to my health

what's the point if you can just get linked to another one right after reviving and max hp wouldn't matter as long as it isn't below 60

[Mysterious box]

13 hours ago, Yuuko said:

A fridge preserves food, but food is widely available at all points in the game.  The fridge is not needed for survival, it just cuts down on how often we need to source new food.  If I didn't have a fridge I would still not starve, I would just need get food more often.  Most structures are like this.

Breaking up messages is so annoying b/c it makes it really easy to throw context out, clipping messages here and there as if something else was said.

Cut up it looks like you're disagreeing with me, but if you actually read my post you're basically repeating what I already said.

No, there is no point to the rifts in a survival sense.  Nothing brought in from the rifts makes surviving more difficult - only more annoying.  Even if rifts were let loose to destroy our bases that wouldn't actually make it more likely we'd die.  All those pigs are still running around for us to kill, hound waves and bosses coming in, gardens pushing out produce, etc.  Its like that mod that was made YEARS ago that thought it might be challenging to constantly have bosses spawn on you from the start of the game without pause and what they found out was that this mostly just streamlined delivery of food and valuable resources lol.  Since Bright Shades I've never had as much leafy meat piled up.  I'd learn recipes to use it, except I still have everything else piling up too.  Destroying my fridge doesn't matter when I have stacks of rot piled up from all of the food I didn't need a fridge for.

As it is my bases are basically crafting stations with a few chests for organization, a single crock pot and fridge / salt box, and a single field used to grow potatoes once.  Destroying these means nothing to me.  It does mean something to the person who spent literally 100 hours in the world building an amazing city - but what it means is a middle finger.  It doesn't change their survival rate either, just their rate of satisfaction with the game :\ 

I've said it since planar was announced - this is not going to increase survival challenges, or even "fix" anything for game balance.  If they really want to tackle this stuff and make the game a better survival experience they need to start at the beginning.  Tacking on additions to a bad foundation just won't work.

Needing to spend less time gathering food means you waste less time which is a boost to your odds of survival if we're going by the whole we don't really need to argument to say something isn't related to survival then basically nothing is survival related. Same pre rift if nothing post rift is survival related neither is anything pre rift as when you break it down you need next to nothing to survive at the barest of minums not even seasonal gear therefore truely nothing is a survival mechanic.

You guys keep saying base destruction only matters to megabasers but if that were the case only megabasers would care about it we've seen this in action.

Simply put make a poll with no context saying do you care if your base is destroyed the answer may shock you.

6 hours ago, grm9 said:

don't see much difference between figuring out a way to deal with rain (bleu, umbrella, eyebrella, umbralla, rain coat etc.) and figuring out a way to deal with ANR bosses, i've listed BQ methods often recently so surely you remember the amount somewhat 

Survival mechanics for the future don't have to be existing concepts only why would it?

[Yuuko]

54 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Needing to spend less time gathering food means you waste less time which is a boost to your odds of survival if we're going by the whole we don't really need to argument to say something isn't related to survival then basically nothing is survival related. Same pre rift if nothing post rift is survival related neither is anything pre rift as when you break it down you need next to nothing to survive at the barest of minums not even seasonal gear therefore truely nothing is a survival mechanic.

You guys keep saying base destruction only matters to megabasers but if that were the case only megabasers would care about it we've seen this in action.

Simply put make a poll with no context saying do you care if your base is destroyed the answer may shock you.

Base structures, like backpacks, are highly overrated.  I'm sure a lot of people would say "oh no don't destroy my base" when their base being destroyed would not effect them much.  It doesn't matter how they feel, their survival is unaffected.  Having to source food less often doesn't boost my chances of survival - it only boosts my time available to spend doing other things like boss fights, decorating base, etc.

As long as food is plentiful a fridge is only a convenience.  We would need actual resource scarcity for a fridge to be important.  As it is "sourcing food" doesn't even take extra time considering hound waves and basically any other fight provides more food, and I already have stacks of food going stale and rotting in base.

[grm9]

55 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Survival mechanics for the future don't have to be existing concepts only why would it?

that was meant to be a comparison about bosses having many solutions and rain, lunar hail, acid rain, temperature etc. having many solutions too, the only difference being that one requires you to decide the solution once, with the other lasting through all of the time during which you're playing the game, tbh it might even be better to just not add anything else like temperature because waiting to heat up or cooldown is already boring and not very fun, with rain and acid rain only requiring you to wear specific stuff and lunar hail being a copy of earthquakes 

[Uedo]

18 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

1. I think you guys are somewhat missing the point here, it’s not about having your base spontaneously explode.. it’s NEVER been about having your base spontaneously explode, the part of the game that’s always bothered me (and why I delete my saved world and start over by like day 500) is that ONCE you build that base, and your settled into it- You really have no actual reason to LEAVE that base unless your going out to tackle completely optional boss fights tucked away in some obscure corners of the map.

2. And to further drive that fact home- even KLEI has started to realize this by giving Deerclops, Bearger & Vargs upgraded Lunar boss designs- because these things come to YOU & not the other way around.

3. Its why you suddenly have Brightshades in your business rather than setting sail to play around with Seaweeds.

4. and for me personally I actually WANT mobs and hazards to be able to damage and wreck up my base- not because having my base destroyed makes the game anymore “challenging” but because IF that stuff gets damaged or destroyed then I need to leave the safety of my base to go out and gather supplies to FIX my base & it’s what you encounter on your way to gather supplies & safely return back home with them that should make up all the challenge.

5. Be honest here- For once I want everyone on these entire forums to be honest…

6. How often do you ACTUALLY interact with Cookie Cutters after you’ve built your Salt Boxes? How frequently do you revist this part of the game just to repair or upkeep your salt boxes?

7. You don’t, end of story…

8. But you WOULD if Pig Raids (like the ones seen in Klei’s animated shorts) happened where they raid your camp, smash your food stashes, eat up your food and FORCE you to leave your safety bubble to go out and collect more food/restore your salt boxes.

9. So again I’ll repeat myself, DST only ever became a Megabase game, because a good majority of its content… is something you’ll interact with ONCE per game world, and then never have any reason to EVER revisit that area of the game again unless you just wanted to add an extra 300th Saltbox to your kitchens..

(I've put numbers on your paragraphs so i can respond better)

1. Yeah but Mike, this is no brag at all but i'd be done with a 'run' of DST within a few hours. It's not hard to build a base, especially if that's your focus (which it seems to be for you - forgive me if i'm wrong, just going off of 'and why I delete my saved world and start over by like day 500) is that ONCE you build that base, and your settled into it- You really have no actual reason to LEAVE that base unless your going out to tackle completely optional boss fights tucked away in some obscure corners of the map.'). I couldn't imagine what the entirety of the game would be if it ended there. There are many survival games that like the grind, you're not gonna have to grind for anything unless it's big in DST - IMO anyway. I think you're right, like truly, if you don't want to continue playing after building a base - like all you wanted to have, then it's a very very short game.

2. None of those bosses come to YOU, you have to ensure qualifiers have been met in order to spawn them. You literally have to seek them out. I get your point though, Clops, bearger and (well, no, not vargs, ever). Come to the player (ish), but this has been a thing since A New Reign... Klei haven't changed anything with respect to them (outside of combat tweaks - which objectively has got easier) 

3. It wouldn't be why. But yes, they do not hang around sea weeds, correct.

4. This is the bit YOU don't understand though. I'm busy doing bosses, nothing happens to my base.... nor would it. Even when i'm building, nothing is going to prevent me, just slow me down, that's it. I'm not even someone who minds the destructive elements, but all it will do is make me spend less time, I dunno, putting turf down? If they kept it in, well, ok. If they didn't, well, ok. It only effects players who you have no overlap with, lets be honest here, it's why I think your suggestions are generally seen as unhelpful.

5. People are always honest with you, but of course! I'm down.

6. A lot, I have a boat bridge through some salt - I like picking up some bits on the way through. I don't build salt boxes, I don't repair 'em neither

7. Oh. I do though. I don't build salt boxes, but I sure encounter cookie cutters a loooooooot. They're really cute, I wish we could trap them

8. No. I'd turn it off, It would make me return to base far too much. Like i said, generally you're always quite busy in DST. I have a feeling you're at base a lot more than most, probably why you get bored.

9. That's not true either, You often farm bosses multiple times for mats. If i can't be bothered to regen the ruins and i just maybe need 1/2 more of a specific gem for something, i'll just quickly nuke Dfly. Always killing BQ for them beans. Regened the ruins but not began the steps to kill the new FW? If you're in there, go kill AG - See whatcha get. Do you get my point?  I'd play 5000 days and never use a salt box, let alone 300.....

VERY IMPORTANT EDIT: I want a Cookie Cutter critter.... please.

[arubaro]

People rush every boss without making a base but experience players should rebuild some fences and a moondial because it affects survival... logical fun game development 

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

23 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I think you guys are somewhat missing the point here, it’s not about having your base spontaneously explode.. it’s NEVER been about having your base spontaneously explode, the part of the game that’s always bothered me (and why I delete my saved world and start over by like day 500) is that ONCE you build that base, and your settled into it- You really have no actual reason to LEAVE that base unless your going out to tackle completely optional boss fights tucked away in some obscure corners of the map.

It's a sandbox game. It's completely natural that once you reach a certain point you have to set your own goals. That's just how these games work. There is a certain amount of content that is designed to push you forward, and once you complete that you either do your own things or decide that you are satisfied with the playthrough and start over.

[Mike23Ua]

12 minutes ago, EATZYOWAFFLEZ said:

It's a sandbox game. It's completely natural that once you reach a certain point you have to set your own goals. That's just how these games work. There is a certain amount of content that is designed to push you forward, and once you complete that you either do your own things or decide that you are satisfied with the playthrough and start over.

Usually.. DLC is used to extend the lifetime of a video game, Sometimes those DLCs are small and meaningless, or sometimes those DLCs can be better than the base game itself.. Either Way- The purpose of a DLC is to extend the shelf life of the product your playing.

And when it comes to DST, Klei has been doing free updates that when combined together, all make up a new DLC, but instead of offering up more of the same type of experiences that the base game & its two expansions provided players with- Klei instead has to “Tip Toe” around already “Established” Playstyles.

This is why ME and Megabasers go toe to toe like someone threw us in ring & rung a fighting bell.

Hamlet gave you the middle finger all over again when Pogs threw your belongings out of your storage chests and strong winds blew that loot right off the edge of the map never to be seen again.

Instead of getting these new experiences that are basically making players “re-learn” the game and how to survive, Klei has to Instead design content around what’s already been established.

EVERYTHING I’m trying to say here is Shipwrecked & Hamlet FORCED you to start over in a new environment learning how to survive all over again…

and when Klei tries to start doing that with late game progress in DST with the Shadow/Lunar Rifts mobs, world changes & weather effects- Players who already have their 500,000,000 day worlds built pitch a complete and total FIT about it.

But yet- Had Klei just released an actual new DLC with these features as a core part of a Shipwrecked/Hamlet sized expansion that forced you to relearn the game, significantly less people would have any complaints about it.

Instead I have to watch threads suggesting things like Brightshade Repellent & then be absolutely horrified that Klei might actually cave to peer pressure and add mechanics that let you almost completely ignore their existence.

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

55 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

And when it comes to DST, Klei has been doing free updates that when combined together, all make up a new DLC, but instead of offering up more of the same type of experiences that the base game & its two expansions provided players with- Klei instead has to “Tip Toe” around already “Established” Playstyles.

Klei isn't offering similar experiences to the base game with DST updates because DST is not the same game that DS was. DST has taken on a separate identity ever since the addition of raid bosses and the shadow/lunar arcs.

Klei is not tiptoeing around pre-existing play styles, but rather players are giving valid criticism to bad mechanics that offer nothing but artificial challenge and annoyance. There's also a large difference between changing an already existing world by adding new features, and making what is essential a completely separate game (Hamlet/SW).

[Mysterious box]

On 12/28/2023 at 11:18 AM, grm9 said:

that was meant to be a comparison about bosses having many solutions and rain, lunar hail, acid rain, temperature etc. having many solutions too, the only difference being that one requires you to decide the solution once, with the other lasting through all of the time during which you're playing the game, tbh it might even be better to just not add anything else like temperature because waiting to heat up or cooldown is already boring and not very fun, with rain and acid rain only requiring you to wear specific stuff and lunar hail being a copy of earthquakes 

Again new survival mechanics don't have to be a repeat of mechanics as I've already said many times.

On 12/28/2023 at 11:11 AM, Yuuko said:

Base structures, like backpacks, are highly overrated.  I'm sure a lot of people would say "oh no don't destroy my base" when their base being destroyed would not effect them much.  It doesn't matter how they feel, their survival is unaffected.  Having to source food less often doesn't boost my chances of survival - it only boosts my time available to spend doing other things like boss fights, decorating base, etc.

As long as food is plentiful a fridge is only a convenience.  We would need actual resource scarcity for a fridge to be important.  As it is "sourcing food" doesn't even take extra time considering hound waves and basically any other fight provides more food, and I already have stacks of food going stale and rotting in base.

Disagree losing a base is often very demoralizing and I don't think that's a oh well moment. Also again it goes back to just because you can survive without survival structures doesn't mean they hold no importance to survival I think your taking your experience as everyone's experience in this scenario. Losing your base effects the survival of most players as not everyone plays like a nomad it's the very reason base destruction mechanics are a thing.

Again if your argument basically boils down to well if your good enough you can survive without a base I have to once again reference if your good enough you can survive with just a axe doesn't mean it's not a problem and it doesn't mean it's fun to survive that way.

23 hours ago, arubaro said:

People rush every boss without making a base but experience players should rebuild some fences and a moondial because it affects survival... logical fun game development 

I too store my gear and food in fences. Jokes aside I don't think we need to explore more base destruction concepts specifically but at the same time if people are so afraid of it why doesn't anyone just petition toggle that makes structures indestructible except by play actions?

[grm9]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

Again new survival mechanics don't have to be a repeat of mechanics as I've already said many times

that's why i said that it was a comparison between that and old bosses, with both being mostly puzzles