Ocean or cave update ?

[Maxil20]

10 minutes ago, Masked Koopa said:

IMO you're just proving their point here, if unintentionally. 6 weather pains and 20 minutes for a single fight is absurd. That's more than 3 in game days of pretty much just holding F.

It is certainly a bit, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not nearly as much as it was back then from my experience, especially during a new reign. When I fought misery pre portal, it took me ~50 minutes, and that was with flingo cheese strats…

6 weather pains is 6 horns, 6 gears, and 30 down feathers (if you are using a construction amulet). You are likely to get 6 gears and 30 feathers along the way of regenerating the ruins, so I don’t think it’s too unlikely to have most of the materials except the horns on you by the time you want to consider fighting toad. In terms of a one time investment you never need to do again, I don’t think it’s that extreme. That is coming from my personal experience, though.

You can also greatly simplify the demands if you are okay with character Swapping. Woodie can make chopping the sporecaps much easier to cut the cost of chopping down greatly, while Warly/Wolf/Wanda can speed up the fight along.

I do wanna state that I am not entirely opposed to a scaling slider for bosses like misery to make them easier solo. I just feel like it would have to be done carefully, since misery is pretty much the definition of an endurance type of fight and I do feel it’s difficulty should still be noteworthy as a solo encounter, although certainly not as much as it is now.

[Hungry French]

4 hours ago, Shosuko said:

and yet here you are complaining about it lot

Why? Because the hp is so much that the boss fight becomes boring. Why is it boring ? It's not very interesting to kite the same attacks to cyclic music for ten minutes.

Just boring.

4 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Endurance is part of the fight.  It is also not easy as you have a lot of aggro control, and tasks to complete in addition to juggling its kiting patterns.  I do agree misery overstays its welcome a bit in solo but lets be real - you do not need to be able to fight the RAID of raid bosses any easier...  Of all challenges in DST this is the one you need the least in the world...

Endurance is an unofficial part of the fight. And what resulted from the fact that Klei did not want to balance the game more accurately.
The total balance of DST bosses was created under the x2-6 multiplier for DS bosses (Someone got a lot more hp due to slow activity or Dragonfly Stunlocks).

You didn't like the fact that 4 characters killed Toadstool too quickly. (In your opinion)
You can always download Automatic Health Adjust and increase the HP of Toadstool.
You can make 400.000 hp for Toadstool vs 4 characters if you spend a little time in the mod files  and if you want endurance fight in multiplayer to and it is in the team

4 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

Again, you literally go out of your way to make the boss fight harder for yourself. By turning it into misery, you accept the fact you make the fight substantially more difficult. There is nothing stopping you from not doing this and just fighting normal toad unless you desire the guaranteed glowcap and napsack blueprints, 2 of the funcap blueprints, and/or the alternative festive adornment, and you only need to do the fight once for the former 2.

And why would I fight with a regular Toadstool if it's just boring and doesn't even have a decent loot.

Misery Toadstool is more like: make you spend even more grind on the boss and get a boss fight that surprises nothing except its not interesting length of the battle.

If you like, play. But mob hp scaling should be in the game.

2 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

Overall, I can see why people don’t like to fight misery, but there are methods ingame that can and will still speed up the fight by a considerable amount, even without swapping characters.

The game should be something more interesting than:
I used the portal to choose Wolfgang and made Warly dishes and spices and the best weapons that appeared after Toad stool, so that the fight would be interesting as well as for 6 players.

And this is the only vanilla way without mods to make a fight with Toadstool really interesting.

Close to what the fight for Wilson for solo should be

[grm9]

58 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Why? Because the hp is so much that the boss fight becomes boring. Why is it boring ? It's not very interesting to kite the same attacks to cyclic music for ten minutes.

that's an issue with the boss being uninteresting and not with too much hp, you'll still get bored from fighting it sooner or later even if it's hp gets decreased if it's boring, since you'll need to fight it again at some point if you start a new world/that boss' loot can't be duped and is useful to get in large amounts 

58 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

You didn't like the fact that 4 characters killed Toadstool too quickly. (In your opinion)
You can always download Automatic Health Adjust and increase the HP of Toadstool.
You can make 400.000 hp for Toadstool vs 4 characters if you spend a little time in the mod files  and if you want endurance fight in multiplayer to and it is in the team

go do that yourself too if you want bosses to have less hp

58 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

But mob hp scaling should be in the game.

it'd be better for you to download a mod that adds it instead of crying on the forums for around a month now i think, if you're playing solo you're free to download any mods that you want to use so there isn't even an issue with getting the host to install the mod that you want if the thing that the mod adds wasn't added into the game by klei 

[Hungry French]

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

that's an issue with the boss being uninteresting and not with too much hp, you'll still get bored from fighting it sooner or later even if it's hp gets decreased if it's boring, since you'll need to fight it again at some point if you start a new world/that boss' loot can't be duped and is useful to get in large amounts 

You are wrong here. Less hp from bosses makes them much more interesting.It depends on the player whether he will have fun or not

5 minutes ago, grm9 said:

it'd be better for you to download a mod that adds it instead of crying on the forums for around a month now i think, if you're playing solo you're free to download any mods that you want to use so there isn't even an issue with getting the host to install the mod that you want if the thing that the mod adds wasn't added into the game by klei 

It's ironic that you're crying right now bro.

[grm9]

Just now, Hungry French said:

You are wrong here. Less hp from bosses makes them much more interesting.It depends on the player whether he will have fun or not

a boss being boring comes from doing something repetitive for too much time, the time will inevitably add up even if the boss' hp is low if you'll keep fighting it again so no, low hp isn't a good solution, good bosses are interesting even if the fight will go for an hour or two 

2 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

It's ironic that you're crying right now bro.

it depends on what the definition of it is in your opinion, in this case i was referring to continuously asking and starting arguments with others for klei to solve your issue even though you can do that on your own by installing a mod and you know about this 

[chirsg]

1 hour ago, Hungry French said:

If you like, play. But mob hp scaling should be in the game.

3 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

I hate terraria for a solid amount of reasons, however, despite this not being the straw that broke the camel's back for me, it was still a bad change. Boss HP scaling ruined terraria servers for a long time. Terraria public servers were all modded. The ones that had the highest traffic in the 100's of people. Those servers were extremely fun to play back in the day but it ruined everyone's time when someone would spawn a moonlord and suddenly, it has a billion HP. 

Misery toadstool I think is a bit of a fool's endeavour without character swapping. The only reason to do it with a single character is for pride. Otherwise, just do woodie rumbling. It's foolproof. But yes, it's a lot of work, but a task like that can TRULY establish a world as a proper long term megabase world. 

 

Juice CAN be worth the squeeze.

[Hungry French]

12 hours ago, Shosuko said:

I recently finished the fight in another new way for the speed run challenge - completing the actual boss fight portion in just 1.5 minutes !!  The dfly fight has evolved my game play in many different ways, and I still have more room to grow.  Dfly is my top favorite boss in the game.  I love fighting her in many different ways with different characters and perks.  She is the most re-playable boss imo

You used :
1. A bug that caused Dragonfly to fly outside of its spawn.
2. Attack animation cancellation bug 
3. Using the broken ai from lavaes. 

Cheesing.I don't mind, but it's still not a fair way to fight. 

[Yuuko]

4 hours ago, Hungry French said:

You used :
1. A bug that caused Dragonfly to fly outside of its spawn.
2. Attack animation cancellation bug 
3. Using the broken ai from lavaes. 

Cheesing.I don't mind, but it's still not a fair way to fight. 

Yup, there is so much variation and choice in this fight, its one of my favorites.  I'm sure I could describe a dozen tactics you'll label as some form of bug exploitation, cheesing, or somehow otherwise invalidated because of your opinions, meanwhile I'm enjoying the fight in so many different ways while you're obsessing over some mythical "true fight path" that is too hard to do solo even though I'm certain there are YT videos of people doing it exactly that way...

[BalkanCockroach]

8 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Yup, there is so much variation and choice in this fight, its one of my favorites.  I'm sure I could describe a dozen tactics you'll label as some form of bug exploitation, cheesing, or somehow otherwise invalidated because of your opinions, meanwhile I'm enjoying the fight in so many different ways while you're obsessing over some mythical "true fight path" that is too hard to do solo even though I'm certain there are YT videos of people doing it exactly that way...

The real "Mythical true fight path" is grinding resources and making infinite armor and healing to tank everything.

[00petar00]

20 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

Misery toad is pretty much a hyper endurance fight. Given how you are meant to go way out of your way to get it, and the fact you really only need to do said fight once, It’s the only boss where solo it should realistically take ~8+ minutes, especially now that we have ways to counter the sporecaps that isn’t just constant weather pains. 10K HP would be more in line for normal toad, and even then that might be slightly too little (?).

Recently I have fought toadstool like 4 times before obtaining mushlight blueprint. I don't think anyone can defend 99999 HP for Misery and even 50000 HP is too much. This is the least enjoyable boss fight in the game for me.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

Recently I have fought toadstool like 4 times before obtaining mushlight blueprint. I don't think anyone can defend 99999 HP for Misery and even 50000 HP is too much. This is the least enjoyable boss fight in the game for me.

Yeah when I say I want more RNG in DST I don’t mean in boss fights… lol that’s the worst kind of RNG…

What I want would well… actually compliment the Ocean (& also caves) quite well..

And that would be having less predictable world Gen or mob spawning locations.

Such as for example: Water Stryders not only being found exclusively in waterlogged biomes or Cookie Cutters only being found near salt formation biome.

I mean with the ocean it’s easy to add mobs that frequently come to the surface to engage with the player or the world around them… but CAVES could equally be just as interesting too if that empty void that acts as an invisible wall or whatever- Had creatures and resources that could be spit out of them like a volcano erupting resources onto the surface, or a cool spider crawling up out of lower depths of the caves.

The RNG I want more of would apply almost exclusively to what biomes spawn where, what resources can be found (such as gold ore in swamps if that’s the RNG) and what mobs occupy those biomes.

what needs to be LESS RNG or preferably no RNG at all… is Boss Fights or Mob loot Drops.

Example: MacTusks should always be guaranteed to drop a Tusk on killing them, However- To accommodate for this change, MacTusks Home will move to a new location each time you kill them away.

The Caves & Ocean both are prime for RNG mob/resource encounters- Because mobs can surface out their deepest depths.

[Maxil20]

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

Recently I have fought toadstool like 4 times before obtaining mushlight blueprint. I don't think anyone can defend 99999 HP for Misery and even 50000 HP is too much. This is the least enjoyable boss fight in the game for me.

I’ll agree with you on the RNG aspect. While I think misery is okay because it has consistent drops, normal toad having a 2/3rds shot at getting the mushlight blueprint and being the best source of it isn’t very fun at all. This is why I specifically mentioned misery giving a guaranteed glowcap blueprint as needing to repeatedly farm a boss for a random blueprint is not exactly fun at all, and (to my knowledge) it does not help how toadstool is the only example of “RNG” blueprints.

[00petar00]

10 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Yeah when I say I want more RNG in DST I don’t mean in boss fights… lol that’s the worst kind of RNG…

What I want would well… actually compliment the Ocean (& also caves) quite well..

And that would be having less predictable world Gen or mob spawning locations.

Such as for example: Water Stryders not only being found exclusively in waterlogged biomes or Cookie Cutters only being found near salt formation biome.

I mean with the ocean it’s easy to add mobs that frequently come to the surface to engage with the player or the world around them… but CAVES could equally be just as interesting too if that empty void that acts as an invisible wall or whatever- Had creatures and resources that could be spit out of them like a volcano erupting resources onto the surface, or a cool spider crawling up out of lower depths of the caves.

The RNG I want more of would apply almost exclusively to what biomes spawn where, what resources can be found (such as gold ore in swamps if that’s the RNG) and what mobs occupy those biomes.

what needs to be LESS RNG or preferably no RNG at all… is Boss Fights or Mob loot Drops.

Example: MacTusks should always be guaranteed to drop a Tusk on killing them, However- To accommodate for this change, MacTusks Home will move to a new location each time you kill them away.

The Caves & Ocean both are prime for RNG mob/resource encounters- Because mobs can surface out their deepest depths.

You are right that we don't want this kind of RNG but I don't agree that MacTusk needs to move after every kill, to compensate why not make them more deadly or have higher HP?

I also think that Ancient Guardian should guarantee lazy explorer in the chest. While I understand that rushing ruins gives a reward (thulecite gear), I don't believe that it is good enough as it is.

Ocean has been lackluster since release. Now no one will be saying that we need to wait for klei to release more content related to it but it is weird that they keep saying that brightshades are fine because klei said that it isn't going to be the only mob spawning from rifts yet it has been that way since their release. How many years do we  have to wait for ocean or rifts to be considered "good"? I think that trust we had in klei isn't there anymore because Ocean is still quite empty and not worth exploring unless you enjoy that kind of content.

2 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

I’ll agree with you on the RNG aspect. While I think misery is okay because it has consistent drops, normal toad having a 2/3rds shot at getting the mushlight blueprint and being the best source of it isn’t very fun at all. This is why I specifically mentioned misery giving a guaranteed glowcap blueprint as needing to repeatedly farm a boss for a random blueprint is not exactly fun at all, and (to my knowledge) it does not help how toadstool is the only example of “RNG” blueprints.

99999 HP isn't fun and it is an endurace boss battle, I have had to quit the fight because it took too long without using many weather pains that depth worms spawned and it started raining that I was getting overwhelmed. I always do my best to farm the least possible amount of resources to kill bosses because I don't like grinding a lot of resources just to use them on a single boss fight, it never is fun to me to grind before a boss fight, I can understand farming for base building and decoration but if I need to waste a decent amount of time to farm resources before fighting something, it becomes quite boring.

[arubaro]

7 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

I have had to quit the fight because it took too long without using many weather pains that depth worms spawned and it started raining that I was getting overwhelmed

that's the point

if it was a 10k fight you would kill they easily without worry about rain, hunger or any other problem

7 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

I always do my best to farm the least possible amount of resources to kill bosses because I don't like grinding a lot of resources just to use them on a single boss fight, it never is fun to me to grind before a boss fight, I can understand farming for base building and decoration but if I need to waste a decent amount of time to farm resources before fighting something, it becomes quite boring

but this is a crafting game with bland fights. Remove the resource management and you get easy, anticlimactic fights like in hamlet

i would play something like monster hunter if i wanted to just fight bosses, atleast it has more atack buttoms and bosses have patterns...

the only grindy boss is misery which you dont need to fight because toad eventually drops everything (and you only fight him if you plan to build) and FW when you are learning to fight him