Increase bat bat's damage to 51 and, maybe, remove purple gem from recipe

[grm9]

Title. 51 damage would allow it to hit breakpoints for killing things that have <1000 hp, e.g. spiders, shadows, hounds. No purple gem cost might make people more willing to craft it, since purples are valuable for character swapping.

Also maybe lower living log cost for thule club to 1 or 2 (green amulet breakpoint for 1 living log instead of 2 current) or increase the durability to x1.5 or x2 while on that topic.

[Cheggf]

It's for healing, it's not supposed to be your primary weapon. Even with those changes it would still be bad as a main weapon due to its sanity drain, cost, and durability. I don't think this would change anything, anyone who recognizes the potential of its healing is already using it for its healing and wouldn't care about these changes, and anyone who doesn't recognize the potential of its healing are already using other things that don't require farming batilisks to reach 51 damage like tentacle spikes, ham bats, dark swords, thul clubs, shields, etc. 

[cropo]

I'd rather the sanity drain be removed on it. Lower damage for life steal is a perfect trade off, but on top of a sanity drain? It's one of the cooler looking weapons but it's just so impractical. 

 

I generally just make one as a trophy and leave it to collect dust in a chest, even with Wormwood I don't really feel the need to use them. It doesn't need more damage or to be cheaper(it already technically became cheaper with the batilisk change), it needs its sanity penalty revisted.

[grm9]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

It's for healing, it's not supposed to be your primary weapon. Even with those changes it would still be bad as a main weapon due to its sanity drain, cost, and durability. I don't think this would change anything, anyone who recognizes the potential of its healing is already using it for its healing and wouldn't care about these changes, and anyone who doesn't recognize the potential of its healing are already using other things that don't require farming batilisks to reach 51 damage like tentacle spikes, ham bats, dark swords, thul clubs, shields, etc. 

yes, but the point of making it meet the breakpoint is to make it so you can still e.g. heal up through nearby spiders/hounds on the way without the annoyance of making it a three-shot/four-shot instead of two-shot/three-shot or carrying lureplants/chester/hutch around. i'd prob use it more if those changes would happen, atm i only ever use it if i find it in ruins instead of crafting.

[Masked Koopa]

Bat bat is genuinely very useful IMO, it is quite a practical item for healing during boss fights since it doesn't interupt your swings. Out of all the items in the game that could be changed, it is much, much lower on the list than things like Tail o Three cats or the blowdarts.

[Valase]

1 hour ago, cropo said:

I'd rather the sanity drain be removed on it. Lower damage for life steal is a perfect trade off, but on top of a sanity drain? It's one of the cooler looking weapons but it's just so impractical. 

The problem with the sanity drain is that it is balanced around the fact that you don't "hold" a bat bat long enough to justify a negative sanity effect like the DarkSword, so instead of the standart -6 sanity/minute, it has the on-hit effect.

[Frosty_Mentos]

Batbat is generally pretty useful. While I'd like it to have more damage I don't see a point to that since it has a function and does it well.

Well, maybe adding more durability would be nice? It feels discouraged to use it when it only has 75 hits. It doesn't need anything major but to last a bit longer since food and blue caps compete much harder compared to the bat. With the overabundance of food that heals I mean.

[mykenception]

3 hours ago, grm9 said:

yes, but the point of making it meet the breakpoint is to make it so you can still e.g. heal up through nearby spiders/hounds on the way without the annoyance of making it a three-shot/four-shot instead of two-shot/three-shot or carrying lureplants/chester/hutch around. i'd prob use it more if those changes would happen, atm i only ever use it if i find it in ruins instead of crafting.

I prefer it's current damage, more hits means more healing

I don't really need spider breakpoints when I can heal more, plus its a side arm, so your main damage would come from your dark sword or you hambat anyway

[Antynomity]

8 hours ago, grm9 said:

yes, but the point of making it meet the breakpoint is to make it so you can still e.g. heal up through nearby spiders/hounds on the way without the annoyance of making it a three-shot/four-shot instead of two-shot/three-shot or carrying lureplants/chester/hutch around. i'd prob use it more if those changes would happen, atm i only ever use it if i find it in ruins instead of crafting.

more hits is more healing, the bat bat is fine as it is.

[ShadowbirdRH]

Its usefulness warrants its cost. Besides, the crafting mats were already nerfed. It use to cost 5 batilistk wings among other things.

[mykenception]

rather, I'd like it if it had 100 uses if we're gonna buff it either way

more uses means more healing

[KvltBear]

My main issue with it is the low durability. It's trivial to stack up pierogi or jerky or poultices and mass heal quickly. Not trivial at all to make another bat bat and those 75 hits go fast. Idk, I'll give it a try in my next boss fight. It's intriguing to leach health and heal but man 2 living logs and a purple gem is expensive. The sanity drain is another ding that I think is kind of unnecessary and hurts it's utility. Would be more intriguing of a weapon if they increased durability or increased the healing amount per hit.

[Evelo]

I do think Purple Gem is quite pricey but given how insanely useful it is (especially as Wormwood) I am fine with it. 3 Batalisk Wings is also kinda crazy, 2 seems like enough, then again it is 5 wings in Don't Starve Solo. 25% drop rate is pretty low. Given how infrequently people use the Cookie Cutter Cap and the drop rate for those shells was increased to 50%. Hope my gibberish rambling made sense.

[KvltBear]

I always base near my favorite sinkhole location and setup bunny sentries to take out the nightly bats. In my opinion it's the best way to farm wings if needed, but yeah 3 is still a little much. Oddly enough I just finished a long run with Wormwood and I never felt compelled to use it. I was swimming in syrup induced poop, rot, and niter for most of the game so all my healing came from wraps and honey poultices which I found convenient and cheap to make as well. Before I started I had planned to make lots of bats and leech health from Chester whenever I needed it but when I tried that it felt...inefficient? I stopped pretty quickly.

[HowlVoid]

Bat bat > Food

Change my mind

[Arcwell]

14 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Bat bat > Food

Change my mind

Let's find out!!

One bat bat heals for a total of 6.8 * 75 = 510 health.
Given that starvation damage is 1.25 health/sec, we know that the full health value from a bat bat would last 510 / 1.25 = 408 seconds of starvation.
Since a day is 480 seconds and hunger drains at a rate of 75/day, we can equate the bat bat's total health value to 408 / (480 / 75) = 63.75 hunger.

So a full bat bat is a little more effective than a single meatball 

[HowlVoid]

16 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

Let's find out!!

One bat bat heals for a total of 6.8 * 75 = 510 health.
Given that starvation damage is 1.25 health/sec, we know that the full health value from a bat bat would last 510 / 1.25 = 408 seconds of starvation.
Since a day is 480 seconds and hunger drains at a rate of 75/day, we can equate the bat bat's total health value to 408 / (480 / 75) = 63.75 hunger.

So a full bat bat is a little more effective than a single meatball 

Ok now maf with wormwoods op multiplier

[Arcwell]

18 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Ok now maf with wormwoods op multiplier

Wormwood at bloom 3 starves at a rate of 75 * 1.2 = 90 hunger per day, so a full bat bat would equate to 408 / (480 / 90) = 76.5 hunger.

We're up to a little better than Bacon and Eggs now

[Retepeter]

On 11/12/2023 at 12:05 PM, Cheggf said:

it would still be bad as a main weapon due to its sanity drain, 

Small mistake that I don't blame you for not noticing but being at full hp doesn't drain sanity only durability

I agree with removing the purple gem in general personally I think gems in general could use some rebalancing because varg farms are a little too good and they're a little too rare without a varg farm but that's a different discussion

[ShadowbirdRH]

The more you remove items from crafting recipes, the less useful those items become. Don't do it.

Anyway, especially playing as Wormwood, it's my healing item of choice when fighting bosses. Wormwood main, so food heals are out, and salves and poultices take time so they're better for out of combat healing. From bosses from Klaus and Bee Queen to the Fuelweaver and Celestial Champion (the sanity drain is useful here!), in the thick of it, the bat bat is indispensable. Even hound waves are a good time to bring it out if they spring when I'm low on health.

[Cheggf]

4 hours ago, ShadowbirdRH said:

The more you remove items from crafting recipes, the less useful those items become. Don't do it.

100%. I don't make telelocators and don't like switching characters, so literally all purple gems do for me is make bat bats and purple amulets (which I exclusively use in the few situations the game calls for, so I barely ever make them). If purple gems were removed from the recipe they'd become rather useless, only really making moon rock idols and a few character specific crafts.