Renwable fossilx

[grm9]

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

Community controlled pubs or client pubs can simply spawn in more fossil fragments

It is as much of a solution as telling people to install mods instead of the devs adding something into the game. People still complain about brightshades despite there being a mod for repelling brightshades with lightning rods, and using console is available to about as many as installing mods is available to. It's better to add things that make the game better to the game itself so there's no need to use console or install mods.

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

How is the atrium hard to find? Just explore and kill a few large tentacles. How lazy are people? 

It isn't hard to find, just annoying and boring and entirely RNG.

[BalkanCockroach]

Just now, grm9 said:

It is as much of a solution as telling people to install mods instead of the devs adding something into the game. People still complain about brightshades despite there being a mod for repelling brightshades with lightning rods, and using console is available to about as many as installing mods is available to.

No one said that it is hard to find, just annoying and it sucks that there's no way to know which tentacle is the one that leads there, meaning it can be the first you find or the last you find, it's also bad that killing and finding them is boring, considering videogames are supposed to be fun.

More than half of the community are masochists, if you want fun go play something else. We only do misery and sadness here appearantly, cause everyone is against changes that make the game less "uncompromising"

[Jakepeng99]

2 hours ago, BalkanCockroach said:

Nobody tell this individual that setting 40 fossils anywhere takes some time and isn't that trivial or practical.

Unless you can do that while getting mauled by Hounds, splumonkeys (which can squish through fossils), depthworms,  spiders, burgers, clopses. You get the idea.

 

Most bosses can actually destroy fossils and statues, and they block you too. Only useful for Walter cheese on very very specific and niche scenarios.

2 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

So I’m slightly a dumb and replied to my post with a quote when I wanted to edit a minor spelling mistake, and then accidentally hid that post since I didn’t realize it merged my reply with the original post, so take two!

The reason people want renewable fossil fragments is because just about every other resource in DST is renewable, from the world itself, character crafts, or even the world settings (endless regrowth allows normal saplings/grass tufts to be renewable). The only exception to this is fossil fragments, and anenemies.

While you can use fossil fragments as a way to trap mobs and it’s an effective way of doing so, I do not see a lot of people use it for basing purposes. The reason why is fossils don’t really look the nicest for this purpose. The reason people like using sculptures for this is you have many types of sculptures you can use, while also having 3 different color variances to suit the build you want to make (I personally really like pawn sculptures for this, as they look the closest to walls when you have many of them, but rook ones are nice for this purpose too).

And yes, I know you can spawn in fossil fragments with the console, but I don’t think anyone wants to do this to get more of them. It feels cheap, and doesn’t really fix the core problem that fossils are still unrenewable.

I can understand anenenmies since you can automate the ruins, though i would rather they make the clockworks and hg uproot enenemies in order to make them renewable.

[Maxil20]

14 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I can understand anenenmies since you can automate the ruins, though i would rather they make the clockworks and hg uproot enenemies in order to make them renewable.

They actually can uproot anenemies. The difference is their hit range is larger than the mobs uproot range, but only slightly, meaning it takes some precision to get right. This is why the anenemies need to be offset for them to work.

While this does make the ruins easier, it does not entirely trivalize them, given how you still must deal with the shadow creatures from lights and statues during the nightmare phase and the broken clockwork piles will still spawn them.

Regardless, I still find it would be silly if the reason they weren’t renewable is because of this one use they have. It is a very cool use of them, but I still feel like they can be renewed even if it was from something slow, like crab king or sunken chests.

[Masked Koopa]

The thing is if you have taken the time to place anenemies precisely enough on each clockwork to automate them, you have probably done the ruins multiple times to get all the placements down. And at that point it's pretty evident you don't need the help the anenemies provide, it's purely a QOL thing.

[GuardDuty]

10 hours ago, grm9 said:

Someone destroying the fossils on a public server, locking everyone out of doing FW, or maybe a lot of decorations, since 100 fossils is only 12 odd skeletons in the world and you might keep one of them in the atrium at all times to summon FW.

The thing is if anyone has the dedication to do that, you think any unmoderated Klei server world going to survive? In my personal experience, I have never witnessed such scenarios. This notion that "pro-griefers will wipe out all the fossils" is often mentioned, yet it is one of the most unreliable methods for griefing. This is because if a player manages to retain or hide just 8 fossils, the effort to grief becomes a significant waste of time for the griefers. 

Fossil regeneration should only occur at a very slow rate, and it should also include the regeneration of Spilagmites (for Webber). If fossils regenerate too rapidly, it will necessitate a rebalancing of various mechanics related to fossils, such as fossils block pathfinding, the Atrium Heart farming, and interactions with Cave Stalker and Forest Walker.

[grm9]

3 hours ago, Dreadle said:

The thing is if anyone has the dedication to do that, you think any unmoderated Klei server world going to survive? In my personal experience, I have never witnessed such scenarios. This notion that "pro-griefers will wipe out all the fossils" is often mentioned, yet it is one of the most unreliable methods for griefing. This is because if a player manages to retain or hide just 8 fossils, the effort to grief becomes a significant waste of time for the griefers. 

It's still possible and klei seem to want to prevent people possibly permanently removing a specific resource from the world, they even made lunar mushtrees renewable even though they don't even have anything other items or enemies don't drop and no one actively chops them from what i've seen, mush gnomes already drop moon shrooms.

3 hours ago, Dreadle said:

If fossils regenerate too rapidly, it will necessitate a rebalancing of various mechanics related to fossils, such as fossils block pathfinding, the Atrium Heart farming, and interactions with Cave Stalker and Forest Walker.

Just tested and in the first world i've generated there were enough fossils to get 9 stalkers at once, so you can already do that, it's just that no one thinks it's a good idea, because it isn't, AG is better to fight without them, so there's just toadstool to fight with them.

[Jakepeng99]

13 hours ago, Dreadle said:

the Atrium Heart farming, and interactions with Cave Stalker and Forest Walker.

You only need 8 fossils for those.

Oh nvm.

[maradyne]

13 hours ago, Dreadle said:

if fossils regenerate too rapidly, it will necessitate a rebalancing of various mechanics related to fossils, such as fossils block pathfinding

Problem here is, there is no 'balancing' it. 2 fossils existing in the world is enough to basically disable an AI.
...but I also like my funny skeletons, darn it.

 

22 hours ago, BalkanCockroach said:

cause everyone is against changes that make the game less "uncompromising"

Personally I'd like the bugs/exploits fixed, but also changes to the parts of the game that cause people to seek them out in the first place.
Exploits wouldn't be popular in the first place if people actually liked finding the Atrium, or fighting Bee Queen/Dfly/Klaus legit, or...well, the Shadow Piece exploit is mostly done for profit rather than aversion, funny case there.

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, maradyne said:

Dfly/Klaus

if someone doesnt like to fight klaus legit i think is more a problem with that person not liking playing videogames or making a little effort than a problem with the boss

people cheesing df with walls is people fearing losing the game so they rather expend many minutes doing a boring fight and being afk waiting df to spawn her lavaes than doing the fight legit with few ice staves which is faster and waaaaaaay funnier than being afk. Not against improving the fight but is a bad example cuz cheesing the fight is way boring than fighting her legit

not everytime someone cheese something is because of bad design, sometimes is people being coward or lazy cuz dopamine hits harder when you did nothing to obtain it

[MagicalStorm]

3 minutes ago, arubaro said:

people cheesing df with walls is people fearing losing the game so they rather expend many minutes doing a boring fight and being afk waiting df to spawn her lavaes than doing the fight legit with few ice staves which is faster and waaaaaaay funnier than being afk. Not against improving the fight but is a bad example cuz cheesing the fight is way boring than fighting her legit

Using ice staff on lavae isn't fun for everyone, it's annoying for me. Fighting most ANR bosses legit solo a lot of the time ISN'T fun. Always remember, something being more difficult to do does not always mean more fun. Just because you don't have fun using walls does not mean it applies to everyone else who get quickly annoyed by the lavae.

That said, Klaus is one of the funner boss fights to do without cheesing the guy, but I get why some would rather not.

[_zwb]

33 minutes ago, arubaro said:

if someone doesnt like to fight klaus legit i think is more a problem with that person not liking playing videogames or making a little effort than a problem with the boss

Is it wrong to be lazy? Especially when you're entertaining yourself?

[Jakepeng99]

36 minutes ago, arubaro said:

people cheesing df with walls is people fearing losing the game so they rather expend many minutes doing a boring fight and being afk waiting df to spawn her lavaes than doing the fight legit with few ice staves which is faster and waaaaaaay funnier than being afk. Not against improving the fight but is a bad example cuz cheesing the fight is way boring than fighting her legit

D fly with walls is boring. D fly without walls solo as a standard character is not fun. D fly is probably one of the bosses that could be reworked, the lavae phase could be adjusted and she could have more interesting attacks- maybe while the lavae are alive, she stays away from the player, occasionally lobbing fire projectiles that are like the coco-nut attack from the palm tree guard. Would be mre interesting and fair than enemy spam on top of a large boss who attacks and moves at the same time.

[arubaro]

52 minutes ago, MagicalStorm said:

Using ice staff on lavae isn't fun for everyone, it's annoying for me

 

21 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

D fly with walls is boring. D fly without walls solo as a standard character is not fun. D fly is probably one of the bosses that could be reworked, the lavae phase could be adjusted and she could have more interesting attacks- maybe while the lavae are alive, she stays away from the player, occasionally lobbing fire projectiles that are like the coco-nut attack from the palm tree guard. Would be mre interesting and fair than enemy spam on top of a large boss who attacks and moves at the same time.

is just pressing F 3 times per lavae and you have plenty of time between lavaes to do it. Waiting like 1 minute per wave  behind the wall is the opposite of fun

27 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Is it wrong to be lazy? Especially when you're entertaining yourself?

you acomodate your brain to be lazier and lazier until you end up playing some idle clicker game or when you end up not even playing but watching others play because the effort of doing it yourself is to much for your brain (not against watching gameplays, dont get me wrong)

isnt like is wrong but more like "is dangerous"

[MagicalStorm]

6 minutes ago, arubaro said:

is just pressing F 3 times per lavae and you have plenty of time between lavaes to do it.

You're seriously telling me this is supposed to be fun, alright. Dragonfly lavae phase just isn't fun is the thing, walls or not.

7 minutes ago, arubaro said:

you acomodate your brain to be lazier and lazier until you end up playing some idle clicker game or when you end up not even playing but watching others play because the effort of doing it yourself is to much for your brain

And now you want to delve into this weird psychology you came up with as if it applies to everyone? People aren't the same my friend.

I probably should move on and not derail the thread further, be safe everyone!

[_zwb]

46 minutes ago, arubaro said:

you *accommodate your brain to be lazier and lazier until you end up playing some idle clicker game or when you end up not even playing but watching others play because the effort of doing it yourself is to much for your brain

This is a slippery slope argument, I used to "cheese" bosses all the time and barely fought anything the "legit" way, but I still learned how to fight them properly without "cheese". You don't always become lazier once you've done something lazy.

 

Also please consider using some punctuation, it make things more readable and less messy

[Jakepeng99]

2 hours ago, arubaro said:

Waiting like 1 minute per wave  behind the wall is the opposite of fun

It is alot less than that. It is a good quick break to heal or prepare.

If Klei thought it was causing problems, they probably would have just let lavae hit walls, which is something many hostiles do.

[Popian]

Why not give Antlion/rift boulders a chance to drop them? And to limit the rate of gain drop fewer boulders during rift earthquakes.

[arubaro]

On 11/7/2023 at 10:15 PM, Jakepeng99 said:

It is a good quick break to heal or prepare

how is that a good thing?

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

how is that a good thing?

So you can heal and take a breather. 

[arubaro]

3 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

So you can heal and take a breather. 

exactly, not a good thing to have in a boss fight...

[_zwb]

35 minutes ago, arubaro said:

exactly, not a good thing to have in a boss fight...

By that logic good bosses would be Crab King and Bee Queen, who give 0 down time unless you usecertain items.

Bad bosses would be Ancient Guardian and Nightmare Werepig, who allow you to take short breaks and heal yourself, as a natural part of its fight.

[DownloadADuck]

...do all of the people who want no fossil or statue or whatever walls hate Winona or something???

[lenship2]

54 minutes ago, DownloadADuck said:

...do all of the people who want no fossil or statue or whatever walls hate Winona or something???

winona players aren't real, they can't hurt you

[ALCRD]

Isn't it already renewable?

You get every piece back , always. No?