It's time to solve the long-standing problems of Ruins

[Mr.Oshiro]

9 hours ago, EATZYOWAFFLEZ said:

I had no idea that the ruins in ds has so many distinct biomes. Honestly I only thought there was the lichen fields, monkey pods, and then the actual loot part of the ruins. 

If they end up "fixing" the dst ruins to make them more like ds, I hope they guarantee all of the biome spawns. It's already really annoying to get a world without the triple McTusk biome, so I don't want to have the possibility of missing biomes in the ruins either.

Also, here's a good example of some absolutely wack ruins gen in my latest world. Notice the cave entrance and multiple plains biomes literally connected to the ruins.

I doubt whether Klei has the ability to fix it, as they have repeatedly "fixed" issues with incorrect connectivity of cave biomes, but this has not been changed. I have encountered many caves with incorrect connections, and almost one in every ten cave worlds will appear.

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

On 12/20/2023 at 12:23 AM, Mr.Oshiro said:

I have encountered many caves with incorrect connections, and almost one in every ten cave worlds will appear.

Holy crap the generation really is messed up if that is so common.

[Mr.Oshiro]

So far, Klei has not said anything about this matter, and the roadmap is the only hope. If this matter is mentioned, it indicates that they have not blocked player's voice at least.

If they still haven't responded... I I'm sorry, Klei has completely abandoned it. Although there are so many forum players hoping the problem can be solved, everything is in vain.

[_zwb]

Annnnnnd Klei didn't bother to respond.

[Mr.Oshiro]

15 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Annnnnnd Klei didn't bother to respond.

All our efforts have come to nought.

[lenship2]

85 reactions and not a single one from klei :c

[Gotheran]

The generation on ruins is a bit buggy huh? Can't say its too surprising, I've not touched DST caves much cause of the multiple servers thing, but its a nice change and I wish they would port the new cave generation to solo, polished biomes and merging the ruins as a side branch, solo caves are a bit dated and not fun to traverse or explore, having the surface sinkholes connect and an easier ruins map to explore would be nice.

[loopuleasa]

Ruins are perfect for me. I can't get enough of them.

The ruins shift and turn based on its mood, like your average marriage.

But you still love her. All those fond memories make you overlook her imperfections.

[Habakkuk]

On 10/26/2023 at 3:45 PM, Mr.Oshiro said:

In 2015,Klei brought the Caves into DST. In order to reduce the number of servers, they combined the Ruins with Caves and made adjustments to the biomes, which has undergone significant changes compared to DS. But perhaps due to time constraints, the generation of the Ruins biomes has many problems and impacts to this day.

By comparing these two pictures, you can see that the Ruins of DS are very complete, with clear and coherent boundaries of the biomes, while the Ruins of DST are chaotic, with many meaningless paths interspersed in the regular set pieces.

The Sacred（purple area in the lower left corner） is the most altered among all the Ruins of the biome.The originally vast and resource rich  Sacred only have a few set pieces left, resulting in DST having fewer thules than single player games. Ruin reset was a feature that only emerged in 2017, and obtaining gems and thules before that was very tight, making it difficult to serve multiple players. It's really hard to understand why Cole made such a change.

In addition to the Sacred that must be generated, there are also two branch biomes: MoreAltars and SacredDanger.In DS, if you are lucky enough, all three biomes can be generated, and they are all a complete large area.

From top to bottom are Sacred, SacredDanger, and MoreAltars.

However, in DST, the situation has completely changed. I don't know why the complete altar has become a separate biome. In order to reflect its uniqueness, MoreAltars biome have been extensively deleted, leaving only one damaged altar without adding anything else. Even so, it can still become a biome???

only one damaged altar

Although SacredDanger retains the background room, the space is often squeezed and can only generate very small areas. And the turf has been changed to a light color, which does not match the color of ancient pillars. Moreover, the purple ancient turf is different from the other two, as it has a unique environmental sound effect that allows players to immerse themselves more strongly in ancient civilization. Listen carefully to those sounds, they seem to be echoes left by ancient craftsmen building great cities...

 

The second major issue is the Military.Similarly, comparing the military of DS, the military of DST are also severely squeezed, just like the Sacred.The main problem is that a set-piece that seems to have appeared in the Sacred appears here, very abruptly penetrating the entire military.This not only destroys the unique way this biome is generated, but also makes it ugly and narrow.

 

In fact, the two military above are relatively well generated. There are many military that do not generate maze parts or generate very few, with almost no resources. This further weakens its sense of existence.

  

It is very ironic that KLEI greatly reduces the danger level of the most abundant treasure areas in the Ruins, but increases the danger of some less important biomes in the first half. During the wild stage, players are often pursued by shadow creatures from the LichenLand or Monkey Village.Rewards and danger are very mismatched.

 

I have always wondered why guano turf is used here in the monkey village biome. After checking the code, I think this is likely caused by negligence. guano turf is the default turf for caves, and Cole did not make any modifications during transplantation. This area represents the biomes of all monkey villages, but due to turf limitations. Monkey barrels cannot be generated here!

Monkey villages often have multiple biomes connected, and they are also severely squeezed. Compared to a standalone monkey village, the large, interconnected monkey maze is almost non-existent in DST, which makes me feel very regretful.

 

Finally, there are some minor problems. In a single player game, the maze is connected to the lichenland, so its entrance is also a small lichenland, similar to the transition between the Moon Mushroom Forest and the Archives. But DST placed it at the back, which resulted in a less harmonious transition with the previous biome.

Purple ancient turf not only has normal environmental sound effects but also environmental sound effects during the wild stage, which can render the Ruins at this time more terrifying. It is not used in DST.

 

In summary. I spent a lot of time inspecting the ruins, conducting research, and summarizing.Although it has been eight years now, I believe that with the launch of the Host of Horrors, will be more new things in the ruins when we update the shadow content next time. If Klei can solve these problems, I will definitely be grateful！

 

Ruins in DS is a loot better, even the entrance is better because it could be near the cave level entrance, so you don't have to walk a lot to find it. 

[SapoLover]

It's not common for them to respond to suggestions, and it has only been 4-5 months. If they liked the idea, I'd imagine they would place it at the end of the update schedule. Maybe now that updates will come along QoL, they'll touch up ruins generation in one of them.

Spoiler

'been saving this image for long, I think it's the place.

Edited February 6 by SapoLover

[Popian]

This isn't a small change, and there may be people who unironically enjoy the current state because that's the way it's been and that's what they're used to.

I'd prefer that they draw inspiration from the "correct" connections and increase the density of utility and ambiance.

[Antynomity]

4 hours ago, Popian said:

This isn't a small change, and there may be people who unironically enjoy the current state because that's the way it's been and that's what they're used to.

I'd prefer that they draw inspiration from the "correct" connections and increase the density of utility and ambiance.

Some people also preferred there not being an artificial system in place to get perks for your characters, yet they added them. The new ruins are so bad compared to DS that if you really preferred it then someone will mod it back in for sure, just like other 'fighting change' mods.

[Mr.Oshiro]

On 2/7/2024 at 5:58 AM, Habakkuk said:

Ruins in DS is a loot better, even the entrance is better because it could be near the cave level entrance, so you don't have to walk a lot to find it. 

Yeah, the ruins entrance also adds storytelling to the game.Although DST don't use it, if you create one using the
console and inspect it, you will find that it is different from the inspection line of the caves entrance, and even DST unique characters have special inspection lines, which represent different characters attitudes towards the ruins.

From here, we can see the survivors fear of ruins.

[CaptainChaotica]

I know the reason physically WHY they didn't do it this way in DST, but I really miss having the ruins just...DEEPER. It felt more mysterious, more scary, more like you're _really_ going Where You Shouldn't, it feels like going through a doorway into _another_, darker, scarier world...Just having to go down _two_ levels adds so much to the atmosphere. It's like a double-confirmation: "Are you SURE you want to go through with this?"

Also, then the ruins wouldn't feel like you could just accidentally wander up to them while exploring the caves, and be like "'sup?" It's...

They're the ANCIENT RUINS for pete's sake; let them feel a bit mysterious and harder to get to.

...Notorious

[Habakkuk]

5 minutes ago, CaptainChaotica said:

I know the reason physically WHY they didn't do it this way in DST, but I really miss having the ruins just...DEEPER. It felt more mysterious, more scary, more like you're _really_ going Where You Shouldn't, it feels like going through a doorway into _another_, darker, scarier world...Just having to go down _two_ levels adds so much to the atmosphere. It's like a double-confirmation: "Are you SURE you want to go through with this?"

Also, then the ruins wouldn't feel like you could just accidentally wander up to them while exploring the caves, and be like "'sup?" It's...

They're the ANCIENT RUINS for pete's sake; let them feel a bit mysterious and harder to get to.

...Notorious

You have a good point. I would be happy if we had coffee in DST to counter long travels.