Instead of making everyone's attack speed slower, make the alarming clock's attack speed slower

[Jakepeng99]

I don't play Wanda really, but Klei made everyone's attack speed slower across the board to stop Wanda from stunlocking things. Make her clock's attack speed slower instead.

[Fill-Lips]

...But it's already slower then the default attackspeed

[Gashzer]

Its more like speed it up to match default speed. Pc users can use attack cancelling to give it normal attack speed however console users cant do this.

This is adding to an already sizable difference in gameplay experience between consoles and pc. (Having played both its quite shocking tbh, i would recommend DST on pc but for consoles since you guys are missing out in so much i just cant recommend it)

Edited October 17 by Gashzer

[Cheggf]

They did not lower attack speed to prevent Wanda stunlocks and it has always attacked slower. Attack speed was changed as a result of them changing the net code, not Wanda. 

Edited October 17 by Cheggf

[Cassielu]

They stopped Wanda by add a "maximum number of stunlocking" stats for all mobs. Attack speed is another thing.

Edited October 17 by Cassielu

[Shosuko]

I do wish they would revert the attack speed change b/c it means Wolfgang and Wanda cannot reliably get a second scale from dfly.

[lenship2]

3 hours ago, Shosuko said:

I do wish they would revert the attack speed change b/c it means Wolfgang and Wanda cannot reliably get a second scale from dfly.

if you tank one hit as either character you get a guaranteed second scale

[Shosuko]

4 minutes ago, lenship2 said:

if you tank one hit as either character you get a guaranteed second scale

The scale is generated from damage during stun.  The stun happens when the player attacks and dps has passed a threshold.  There are no attacks to tank during the stun period.

I'm unsure your meaning.  Does the attack speed change if you tank an attack?

I have had many encounters where I simply walk up to dfly and hold F until the stun ends (meaning I tank 2-3 attacks) and I do not get a scale.  If there is any way to guarantee a second scale I'm all ears.

[lenship2]

Just now, Shosuko said:

The scale is generated from damage during stun.  The stun happens when the player attacks and dps has passed a threshold.  There are no attacks to tank during the stun period.

I'm unsure your meaning.  Does the attack speed change if you tank an attack?

I have had many encounters where I simply walk up to dfly and hold F until the stun ends (meaning I tank 2-3 attacks) and I do not get a scale.  If there is any way to guarantee a second scale I'm all ears.

ohh

i meant if you tank an attack you can stun her

from experience that's usually enough to get a second scale (i don't think i've ever had a dragonfly fight as wanda where i didn't get a scale)

[Guille6785]

11 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Its more like speed it up to match default speed. Pc users can use attack cancelling to give it normal attack speed however console users cant do this.

This is adding to an already sizable difference in gameplay experience between consoles and pc.

Every attack cancelling method works with a controller, please stop spreading misinformation and treating a completely imaginary issue as a huge problem

 

[Gashzer]

57 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

Every attack cancelling method works with a controller, please stop spreading misinformation and treating a completely imaginary issue as a huge problem

 

I wouldnt say needing to take your thumb off your movement stick as "working" hahaha

Its clearly not viable for controllers.

Please dont make excuses for bugs. Its bad gamer etiquette. 

Edited October 17 by Gashzer

[Cheggf]

5 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

I wouldnt say needing to take your thumb off your movement stick as "working" hahaha

Its clearly not viable for controllers.

Please dont make excuses for bugs. Its bad gamer etiquette. 

Index finger on joystick, thumb on dpad. It's inaccurate, difficult, and very uncomfortable but you don't need perfect accuracy for DST movement. For a more comfortable way of doing it you could hold the controller upside down, that'd let you use the thumb to control the joystick.

Edited October 17 by Cheggf

[Gashzer]

Just now, Cheggf said:

claw grip

Ah yes. The perfectly natural way to use a controller hahahahah

[Cheggf]

14 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Ah yes. The perfectly natural way to use a controller hahahahah

you are but a mere casul who thinks that comfort and long-term health is more important than optimizing your dps in a videogame that isn't even that difficult to begin with

[Guille6785]

20 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

I wouldnt say needing to take your thumb off your movement stick as "working" hahaha

Its clearly not viable for controllers.

Please dont make excuses for bugs. Its bad gamer etiquette. 

last I checked you don't need your left thumb on your joystick and D pad at the same time because you can't move while attacking in DST

please stop trolling to justify your misinformation

[Gashzer]

Just now, Guille6785 said:

last I checked you don't need your left thumb on your joystick and D pad at the same time because you can't move while attacking in DST

please stop trolling to justify your misinformation

Im not trolling.

You are trying to justify something that is just horribly awkward because you dont want klei to fix a clear bug, why make whips attack slower if you can just speed it up with attack cancelling? Im saying lets cut out the middle man and make beefalos, whips and moose attack at default attack speed.

You are one trolling by the sounds of it by disagreeing with a very reasonable request to bring console and pc dst experience closer together.

[Shosuko]

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

Ah yes. The perfectly natural way to use a controller hahahahah

Don't knock claw grip that was meta in mhfu and p3rd lol

Also like Guille says - if you're attack cancelling you're not moving.  If you're cancelling and dodging you should still have ample time to move between the arrow you're using to cancel and the analogue stick.

Although now that I think about it....  I should probably learn attack cancelling in DST.  I've never used it, and it sounds like it could alleviate my stress of getting a second scale from dfly.  Not that its terribly important to get a second scale, I can always make turf tiles and decon to dupe the scales but its nice to get 2 scales straight away.  Double furnaces for maximum heating in winter and scaled chests for better backtrek organization are useful.

Edited October 17 by Shosuko

[Shuckster]

Having to resort to claw gripping isn't exactly the good point you guys make it out to be. I understand you do what you do to be "meta." But claw gripping is not good for your hands and can even potentially cause injury. That's not exactly a good thing to have to resort to lol.

Edited October 18 by Shuckster

[Jakepeng99]

2 hours ago, Shuckster said:

Having to resort to claw gripping isn't exactly the good point you guys make it out to be. I understand you do what you do to be "meta." But claw gripping is not good for your hands and can even potentially cause injury. That's not exactly a good thing to have to resort to lol.

Dst fans explaining how artheritis is meta.

[Shosuko]

2 hours ago, Shuckster said:

Having to resort to claw gripping isn't exactly the good point you guys make it out to be. I understand you do what you do to be "meta." But claw gripping is not good for your hands and can even potentially cause injury. That's not exactly a good thing to have to resort to lol.

You don't actually need a claw grip for this - you use your thumb for the analog when you need  to dodge away, you use the attack button to walk towards, and while you're holding the attack button you use your thumb on the arrow to swap gear to cancel the animation.

But I don't think a claw grip is causing injuries lol.  No more then using a mouse and keyboard anyway.  Our fingers move in all sorts of ways and a claw grip effectively gets the job done.  PSP did the claw grip for MH:FU and P3rdr, complex battles constantly using the analog, dpad, and shoulder buttons and no issues, not even a strain.  The only wrist trouble I've ever had came from turning wrenches and playing drums, not gripping a controller.

[Gashzer]

29 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

You don't actually need a claw grip for this - you use your thumb for the analog when you need  to dodge away, you use the attack button to walk towards, and while you're holding the attack button you use your thumb on the arrow to swap gear to cancel the animation.

Yeah but is it worth the hassle to do? From my experience on console thats a no. On console you need to worry about flicking slowly through your inventory to use healing plus worrying about weapon cancelling plus worrying about trying to switch to cane for kiting plus worrying about flicking your thumb back on the movement stick to kite in time, its way too much lets be honest lads.

Guille is a pc player trying to pretend he knows the struggle of a console player. Also the reduced performance of DST on consoles over a decent gaming pc is a massive factor too. 

On pc, attack cancelling is ridiculously easy to pull off.

The points ive been trying to make is that there is a big divide between console/controller and pc/mouse & keyboard experience.

• Attack cancelling is easy to pull off in pc; slower attacks benefit the most from this like whips, ornery beefalo and moose. Console falls behind here as attack cancelling isnt worth the effort. Easy solution is to increase attack speed of these to default. This fix shouldnt create any issues so i dont know why Guille wants to keep the middle man of attack cancelling here tbh. General weapon switching (between cane and weapon) is not impossible but too clunky to be fun to do on console.
• Wortox on pc is one of the most fun characters to play due to the precision and smoothness of his soul hop for general use and as a form of kiting during boss fights. Console wortox trades this smooth soul hop for a clunky one that you cant even adjust the distance you want to hop. Console users dont have the ability to use soul hop to kite boss attacks effectively. Giving wortox the ability to aim soul hop like maxwells spell would be a start in fixing console wortox.
• On console using followers for bosses like crab king can be difficult. I wish if you are in combat that you only can cycle through targetting enemy mobs to prevent you accidently targetting friendlys or remove the ability to attack followers completely by making it a togglable option in settings.

These are some of the main issues ive noticed between playing on my nintendo switch and gaming pc. Ill probably remember some more problems an add them.

[Cheggf]

4 hours ago, Shuckster said:

Having to resort to claw gripping isn't exactly the good point you guys make it out to be. I understand you do what you do to be "meta." But claw gripping is not good for your hands and can even potentially cause injury. That's not exactly a good thing to have to resort to lol.

All I'm gonna say is I bet you waste time showering instead of fine tuning your kiting patterns.

[Shosuko]

6 hours ago, Gashzer said:

there is a big divide between console/controller and pc/mouse & keyboard experience.

100% but that's not a problem with attack cancelling, and won't be solved by changing attack speed.  Just think about it - any attack speed changes still leave that room for animation cancelling so to "fix" this you actually just give <users who can animation cancel> a buff...

When games are ported you always have trouble like this and all I can say to that is - you're playing the port.  The game wasn't made for controller so trying to convert it is not easy.  If you want to be productive on this issues submit your own controller improvements.

What I think would help for controller is to put the most mashed buttons on the shoulders.  Turning the map is probably alright but L2 and R2 should probably be more synonymous with left and right click default options.  Have the R3 toggle the right stick function.  One function it will scroll inventory and the face buttons will be inventory management options like drop, use self, and use on other but when you click R3 it will be a mouse emulation allowing better targeting in combo with L2R2 click options.  The dpad can be macros.

If you have different ideas share those - if the controller is the problem get the controller fixed, don't go on about animation cancelling.  It can be done on a controller fine and isn't a core game feature to get demanding about.

[Shuckster]

11 hours ago, Shosuko said:

100% but that's not a problem with attack cancelling, and won't be solved by changing attack speed.  Just think about it - any attack speed changes still leave that room for animation cancelling so to "fix" this you actually just give <users who can animation cancel> a buff...

When games are ported you always have trouble like this and all I can say to that is - you're playing the port.  The game wasn't made for controller so trying to convert it is not easy.  If you want to be productive on this issues submit your own controller improvements.

What I think would help for controller is to put the most mashed buttons on the shoulders.  Turning the map is probably alright but L2 and R2 should probably be more synonymous with left and right click default options.  Have the R3 toggle the right stick function.  One function it will scroll inventory and the face buttons will be inventory management options like drop, use self, and use on other but when you click R3 it will be a mouse emulation allowing better targeting in combo with L2R2 click options.  The dpad can be macros.

If you have different ideas share those - if the controller is the problem get the controller fixed, don't go on about animation cancelling.  It can be done on a controller fine and isn't a core game feature to get demanding about.

I overall agree with this statement. The problem isn't attack canceling itself. In fact, attack canceling while a skill expression and all that, isn't what I would call "necessary" to the gameplay loop. But rather the occasionally awkward or even arguably "broken" controls. There is definitely room to explore better button layouts and controls.

But I wanna say real quick that yeah, controller plays second banana to mouse and keyboard, but if you're going to bother doing things like make console ports or make it controller compatible on PC, it should be done right.

[chirsg]

Anyone on console who complains about controllers should seriously just nag klei to add in keyboard and mouse support for dst specifically.

 

And if you try to cite price as a barrier, "B" don't go there.

I know for a fact that you can get a keyboard and mouse of 1/3 the price of a modern controller. I used to use a default windows keyboard and a $10 mouse for competitive gaming.