Beta Feedback, Suggestions, and a Proposal for a Lunar Rift Cycle Rework

[MrMNWorm]

BOSS ITEMS
- Howlitzer: a blow dart that can be reloaded is a great late-game item/reward and will definitely be the first thing I craft using the Spark Ark. Hounds Tooth ammo is especially appreciated as they now have a new, useful purpose instead of being storage clutter or Lureplant food.

- Bearger Bin: a 6-slot food container that's super cute looking and has super slow spoilage = VERY desirable and functional. (sidenote: I noticed you can't put the Bunnymen Event dishes inside it... would love it if we could... I've been amassing a stockpile of them in a Ruins Base and THIS is the perfect lunchbox to carry them around in while Ruins clearing).

- Crystaleyezer: not sure if I’ll use this one… by late-game with my play-style, I’ve got wildfires under control and plenty of Mooncaller Staves at the ready... so I'm having a little difficulty figuring out how to use this one properly. Could maybe add one by the Antlion Arena but a Polar Star still works better with it's light radius... maybe add one by the Ice Boxes for their spoilage-reduction... but it's a little cumbersome placing them with their visual looks and cold-effect... and then the only place I use Flingos is to cheese the Crab King... so swapping Flingos for Ice Crystaleyezers inside of a base or resource farms, isn't something I would actually need to do. I'm sure other people will figure out some clever setups for this item... I'm just struggling to find it.

Definitely want the Howlitzer and Bearger Bin, not sure what to do with the Ice Crystaleyezer.

W.A.R.B.I.S. ARMOR
I'm really digging this armor set... I will def be using it a lot for bosses. It's a DST Iron Man Suit with great perks and fun animations, totally want it. I will IMMEDIATELY be hunting down the blueprints for this once the update officially releases.

Got two little notes for it because I like it so much.

1. Since the armor has really cool animations that signal when the buff upgrades occur, do we really need the 4 dots that cover/hide the player and the animations? Seems a little redundant to have both... and if I had to choose ONE to indicate when the perks upgrade, I would 100% choose the animations. And one idea mentioned in another post was changing the 4 dots to a Health Bar Indicator for the targeted enemy... that's seems like a really good idea to me especially if it was placed at the TOP of the target box. The dots will often obscure being able to see the player and the suit animations, so placing that at the top of the box will be greatly appreciated.

2. Adding a Blueprint to craft Scrap from Wires and Gears. This has been mentioned several times and seems like a really good idea. If we keep the Blueprint drop rate as-is but add a Scrap Blueprint, then it's a fair uphill grind to get all the BPs from the Abandoned Machines... but AFTER that it's all downhill. This would also be a lot like the Howlitzer using Hounds Tooths for ammo because by late-game Hounds Tooths are basically storage clutter... but with a Howlitzer they have a renewed purpose/desirability. Same thing would happen for Gears and Wires IF they had a Blueprint to refine them into Scrap. As someone who does clear the Ruins a lot, I have chests full of Wire and Gears to the point that I feed them to the Moleworms... but if I could make Scrap and Repair Kits from them, BOOM! That's a game-changer aka renewed purpose for an overly abundant item in the late-game.

NEW BOSSES

- These seem legit to me... well done Devs. These beefed up bosses will have players dying in droves... until they figure out how to stun them. And the Cold Fire attack is pretty "cool"... might be something fun to play around with for Willow's Skill Tree. Either way, look forward to seeing a few more bosses/mini-bosses get Lunar Mutant Zombie infections and terrorizing The Constant.

Warning!! The next section is going to tangent off a bit so feel free to stop reading here if you are currently satisfied with setup of the Lunar Rift Cycle.

LUNAR HAIL

Preface: this section is basically a proposal for the Lunar Rift Cycle to be revamped; which I decided to do after reading a few comments about the never-ending debate between Survivalists and Megabasers play-style differences. I am something of a Megabaser myself and I will admit... when the Lunar Rifts first debuted... we all whined and pouted about it... oh yes we did... a lot. We whined about it so much that the Devs had no other choice but to nerf all of the fun and life out of the Rifts until they were just a tame, lame, joyless husk of inconsequentiality.

I have a base where the Rifts have been open for about 1000 days now... and I feel so sorry for what we did to them. They spawn out in the middle of nowhere, bothering no one, affecting nothing... and I realize now how wrong it was for us to want them nerfed... all we needed to do was come up with a fun, interesting way to close them instead of banishing them off to the far, desolate corners of The Constant. Perhaps this will be a step towards righting that wrong we committed.

Also, I fully understand that what is being proposed here has no chance of happening for the current beta... but it does seem like we will be seeing more Lunar Rift Content in the future... so if the 2024 or 2025 Roadmap is looking a little empty... this might be a good project to pencil in... especially if it were paired with a package of skin variants for the Brightshade Gear and Weapons... for $8.99.

Now before we dive in, let me quote something that Cybers2001 said in a recent post. I feel this is an excellent summary of what makes content for DST fun, interesting, and well balanced. They said...

The difference is that destructive elements have always allowed the player to still build however they want, while offering ways to mitigate or advert the destruction.

- Giants give audible warnings.
- Frog rain is a gradual buildup from normal rain.
- Summers have oasis desert and caves.
- Shipwrecked volcano gave warning quakes.
- Hamlet aporkalypse is on a predictable timer.

-End Quote-   

The main reason why Megabasers complained about the Rifts so much was because there was no way to mitigate their destruction... so...

What I am proposing is a combination of these elements: an audible warning, gradual build up, a predictable timer, AND a way to close the Rifts. Here a summary of the adjustments that I feel will make the Lunar Rift Cycle more enjoyable for everyone.

1. Move the Flash Signal to the beginning of the Rift Cycle and add an Audio Cue.
2. Allow Rifts to spawn anywhere EXCEPT where Setpiece Statues have spawned.
3. Swap the Grazers for a Gestalt Trio mini-boss fight. Killing all 3 will close the Rift and revert the turf back to normal.
4. Change the Rift cycle to a 20-day period with 4 Phases with a 20-day respawn timer like most bosses have.

Let me start with the last item first, changing the Rift Cycle to a 20-day period with 4 phases. Here's what that might look like:

Sidenote: if there is not a Day + Number listed that means nothing related to the Rift occurs on those days. Example: Days 2-4, nothing happens relating to the Rift Cycle.

PHASE 1
Flash Signal + Audio Cue in the form of Thunder/a Boom/Tearing of the Fabric of Space noise... or whatever seems fitting.
Day 1 - Rift opens, destroys 1 tile, and 2 Gestalts immediately escape
Day 5 - Tiles expand to 2x2, destructive shock wave occurs, Ryftstals form

PHASE 2
Day 6 - Rift opens wider, 2 more Gestalts escape, and 2 Lightning Strikes occur near the player (1 strikes BY the player, 1 strikes ON them) that spawn Charged Moon Glass. These strikes will alert the player of Phase 2 starting.
Day 8 - Tiles expand to 3x3, 30 seconds of a Light Hail Storm occur.
Day 10 - Tiles expand to 4x4, destructive shock wave occurs, Ryftstals form.

PHASE 3
Day 11 - Rift opens wider, 2 more Gestalts escape, 3 Lightning Strikes with Charged Moon Glass alerting the player of Phase 3 starting. Same as Phase 2 but now two strikes occur BY the player, one occurs ON the player.
Day 13 - Tiles expand to 5x5, Light Hail Storm for 1 minute
Day 15 - Tiles expand to 6x6, shock wave, Ryftstals form, and Light Hail Storm for 1 minute

PHASE 4 aka THE LUNAR HAIL + FROG STORM PHASE
Day 16 - Rift remains the same, tiles expand to 7x7, 4 Lightning Strikes with Charged Moon Glass, 3 strikes BY the player, 1 strike ON the player.
Day 17 - Light Lunar Hail occurs for 2 minutes
Day 18 - Light Hail becomes Heavy Lunar Hail occurring over 3 minutes
Day 19 - Heavy Lunar Hail + Mutated Lunar Frog Rain + Lightning occurring over 4 minutes
Day 20 - Rift Closes leaving behind the Lunar Turf along with a few Luna Trees, Saplings, and Moon Glass Boulders... a Lunar Mutation Land Scar if you will. In the center tile, one of the following will spawn: a Shattered Spider Den, a Horror Hound Mound (which currently do not exist), or a flock of Lunar Pengulls.

Begin 20-day respawn timer.

That's my pitch for the Lunar Rift Cycle Rework... and here are some things to add.

- If the Rifts could spawn anywhere BUT a player knew right away when a Rift opened because of a Flash Signal + Audio Cue, then one of two things happen:

A) They check the map and it spawned somewhere they don't care about so they keep doing whatever they were doing.

Or…

B) They check the map and see the Rift spawned in their base (or somewhere they would prefer not be destroyed) and have 4 total days to prep and fight the Gestalt trio to close the Rift before it destroys more than the 1 tile worth of minor/repairable/replaceable damage.

- There are only two things I can think of that the Rifts could destroy that are not replaceable: Setpiece Statues and Pig Heads on a Stick. Everything else can be repaired or replaced... so if the Rifts just avoided Setpiece Statues and gave the player a decent window of time before more damage occurs, this will make things more interesting and fun because they ARE more dangerous BUT we have a way to close them.

- Using a Gestalt Trio Boss, like the Inkblots, to close the Rift gives the player more control over that danger and destruction. If a player steps onto that center tile where the Rift initially spawns, that starts the fight/summons the Gestalt Trio. Once they kill all 3, the Rift closes and they can fairly easily repair 1 tile worth of damage. My vote for the Gestalt Trio is a Pawn, Queen, and King Gestalt kinda like the Shadow Chess Pieces.

- Having an ability to close the Rift also helps give the player some control over the never-ending Brightshade invasions. It won't stop them completely since 2 Gestalts will enter the world as soon as the Rift opens BUT it will give them an option to close the Rift before more Brightshades can enter. And if the player can get 4 Husks from the 2 initial Gestalts, plus 3-6 Pure Brilliance that would drop from fighting the Gestalt Trio... that's enough materials to make some Repair Kits for their gear. And if we have Lightning Strikes that leave behind the Charged Moon Glass, we now have a way to get some extra Infused Moon Glass for the Bombs versus having to deal with whole process of the Moon Storm. 

And that's the end.

That's how I propose we could revamp the Lunar Rift Cycle to give the Survivalists more danger while giving the Megabasers more control over the Rifts. It would give us some better warnings, some more danger, at least one way to close the Rift should a player choose to do so, and provide all the materials for all the Brightshade Gear.

Thank you all for your time, as always feedback and comments are appreciated... and have a wonderful day!

- Sincerely,
MrWorm

[Reiko24]

4 hours ago, MrMNWorm said:

Now before we dive in, let me quote something that Cybers2001 said in a recent post. I feel this is an excellent summary of what makes content for DST fun, interesting, and well balanced. They said...

The difference is that destructive elements have always allowed the player to still build however they want, while offering ways to mitigate or advert the destruction.

- Giants give audible warnings.
- Frog rain is a gradual buildup from normal rain.
- Summers have oasis desert and caves.
- Shipwrecked volcano gave warning quakes.
- Hamlet aporkalypse is on a predictable timer.

-End Quote-   

B) They check the map and see the Rift spawned in their base (or somewhere they would prefer not be destroyed) and have 4 total days to prep and fight the Gestalt trio to close the Rift before it destroys more than the 1 tile worth of minor/repairable/replaceable damage.

- There are only two things I can think of that the Rifts could destroy that are not replaceable: Setpiece Statues and Pig Heads on a Stick. Everything else can be repaired or replaced... so if the Rifts just avoided Setpiece Statues and gave the player a decent window of time before more damage occurs, this will make things more interesting and fun because they ARE more dangerous BUT we have a way to close them.

What you proposed though is GUARANTEED destruction. All of the threats that you described above to show us how destruction is not bad as long as it's preventable are 100% preventable. 1 tile worth of damage may sound like not a lot, but it is an annoyance, and not a small one at that. Even more if the rift destroys your storage and all the items spill on the ground.

 

If we want to go this way, I think the first phase of the rift should not destroy anything yet. It will fit the "we warned you, you did not listen, now bear the consequences" part of preventable threats.

 

Edit: Ngl, I actually prefer your rift idea, but it needs a bit of tweaking. Right now rifts feel really insignificant and could be more threatening and your ideas make them sound a lot better.

[Antynomity]

What Reiko said and please don't make the closing of a rift combat based, we have enough of that in the game, at least don't make it entirely based on combat and combat skill.

[Reiko24]

48 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

What Reiko said and please don't make the closing of a rift combat based, we have enough of that in the game, at least don't make it entirely based on combat and combat skill.

Maybe some randomly generated puzzle that you need to solve would be great. Every mistake would increase your grogginess until you fall asleep and the Grazers wake up.

[MrMNWorm]

Are we sure we don't want a combat based way to close the Rift...? I already mocked up a Gestalt Trio (be kind.. it's my first time doing digital art) and I'm kinda digging it.

Pawn turns into a ball and stuns the player, like Lunar Island and Lunar Grotto Gestalts do.
Queen, like in chess, can fly far and fast at the player then slices at them with a "wing/scythe" kinda thingy...
And the King can shoot like a Houndius because he can only move a little at a time... he needs range.

If they attacked in order like the Inkblots do, it would go: Stun/Sleep, Slice, Shoot.

I am totally open to other ideas... I just think this would really fun and give us some Boss Balance since there are already two Shadow Aligned Trios.

[Antynomity]

15 hours ago, MrMNWorm said:

snip

I'm sure! Nearly all new content in the updates is always combat based.

[MrMNWorm]

3 hours ago, Antynomity said:

I'm sure! Nearly all new content in the updates is always combat based.

Okay fine...

What if you could close the Lunar Rift by killing/sacrificing Glommer near the tear? Like if a player kills Glommer within a 3x3 tile space of where the Rift opening is, that will seal it shut. Would that work or do we still consider that "combat based"?

[LitulLola]

4 hours ago, MrMNWorm said:

Okay fine...

What if you could close the Lunar Rift by killing/sacrificing Glommer near the tear? Like if a player kills Glommer within a 3x3 tile space of where the Rift opening is, that will seal it shut. Would that work or do we still consider that "combat based"?

This cracks me up! Lmao Thank you Worm! 

[tick away]

I think you can use Restrained Static or Iridescent Gem, because these two items have strong moon energy.

The enemies you design can be placed after the crack is closed, and defeating them can prolong the next crack.

[MrMNWorm]

I like where your head's at @tick away... but you heard Anty... no combat stuff.

looks around cautiously

But I think if I can nail down the concept art... people will "get it" and be on board with a little combat-stuff. It's a bit tricky doing the concept art since I just bought an iPad like two days ago... and this is my first time drawing art this way.

[-Variant]

15 hours ago, LitulLola said:

This cracks me up! Lmao Thank you Worm! 

It's nice to see these getting circulation. 

I made it my duty to make as many as possible, I used to have like, 30 of these things.

Spoiler

 

[tick away]

19 hours ago, MrMNWorm said:

I like where your head's at @tick away... but you heard Anty... no combat stuff.

looks around cautiously

But I think if I can nail down the concept art... people will "get it" and be on board with a little combat-stuff. It's a bit tricky doing the concept art since I just bought an iPad like two days ago... and this is my first time drawing art this way.

I mean, you can fight or not. If you fight, it will prolong the regeneration of cracks. If you don't fight, they will disappear by themselves.

[Antynomity]

On 10/6/2023 at 9:02 AM, MrMNWorm said:

Okay fine...

What if you could close the Lunar Rift by killing/sacrificing Glommer near the tear? Like if a player kills Glommer within a 3x3 tile space of where the Rift opening is, that will seal it shut. Would that work or do we still consider that "combat based"?

Sure thing buddy

Don't be so passive towards me next time, thanks.

[Atkvin]

On 10/5/2023 at 6:49 PM, Antynomity said:

What Reiko said and please don't make the closing of a rift combat based, we have enough of that in the game, at least don't make it entirely based on combat and combat skill.

Parroting an idea I had some time ago where if a player is near a rift at night, a shadow hand could spawn once a night at the edges of darkness and try to move towards the rift to close it, but get chased off by Grazers or player light.

Clearing Grazers in the way would allow the shadow hand to close the rift, allowing the player to feel like they are allowing forces of the world to deal with forces of the world, and also reinforce the war between Charlie and Wagstaff's forces

[Antynomity]

21 hours ago, Atkvin said:

Snip

Now that is a combat related way of closing the rift I can approve of, not you doing all the work but instead helping the thing doing it lmao. Nice idea.

[Gi-Go]

Are klei gonna fix/already fixed glass rain? My PC couldn't even handle it when I tried out beta 

[-Variant]

9 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Are klei gonna fix/already fixed glass rain? My PC couldn't even handle it when I tried out beta 

Try it now, it's received a massive performance boost since it first came out. Unless you're still being bogged down by the new one?

[Gi-Go]

3 minutes ago, -Variant said:

Try it now, it's received a massive performance boost since it first came out. Unless you're still being bogged down by the new one?

Nah I only checked beta once when it came out. Glad to hear they nerfed uncompromising experience 

[MrMNWorm]

(sounds of frantic running from behind a wooden door)

just wait.. hold on you guys... waitwaitwait... I'm coming!!

(door slams open, MrWorm is breathing heavily)

(trying to catch his breath) I'm sorry... I'm sorry I'm late... there are... so many awesome ideas in this post... and I have a really good pitch for them... but I... I need more time... I want... I want to thoroughly explain... everything... we have in here.

(stretches with hands above head to get more oxygen into his lungs)

1. @Antynomity I will never take another passive-aggressive comedic cheap-shot at you ever again, you have my word.

2. @Atkvin do you know how awesome your Reverse-Tower-Defense Shadow Hands idea is for a Rift Closing mechanic... it's brilliant. I will explain more tomorrow once I'm off work and have time to properly organize my thoughts.

3. @-Variant those Glommer gifs bring joy to everyone who sees them, you are blessing... and I humbly request a Brightshade bomb version.

4. Speaking of Brightshade Weapons... I was talking to Wagstaff about some new armor he's working... it's cutting edge stuff... it combines the planar protection of Brightshade Gear with the tactical advantages and style of Thulecite Armor... he's calling it Brightcite Tech... and it's unlike anything I've ever seen. I've included some photos of the prototypes, he calls them Brightcite Buckets. They have Pure Brilliance infused, shock-absorbing buffers... great for damage reduction AND provide a new version of Nightvision... it's so crazy.

5. I'll be back tomorrow with a full breakdown of how amazing it would be for Klei to really consider integrating the ideas being brainstormed in here. Right now I don't have time...

Y'ALL ARE THE BEST!!

[-Variant]

39 minutes ago, MrMNWorm said:

I humbly request a Brightshade bomb version.

Ask, and you shall receive:

[ADM]

I don't agree with the rift cycle suggestions. I still thank the devs for backing on their so extended destructive nature because with or without, it wouldn’t have changed the boring nature of their current features (basically a protected resource zone), just annoy more players.

There’s not just pig heads and statues that motives the average megabaser to keep rifts away. But areas they made that may pack weeks of work to get them to the state they are. Even a neat located natural plant near your constructions is almost a blessing these days if you want to avoid it to be a part-time Brightshade spawner. So much more can be a unrecoverable pain based on the player motivations.

The big issue with allowing them to spawn wherever they fancy (but the precious pig heads) is that it force to sign-up for a schedule and not miss it in case the rift location stinks as it cannot be preventively defended. But sometimes I want to be in caves, for a long time, to clear the ruins or build for an unknown amount of time. I also solely play on dedi-servers with friends. There is going to be so much to communicate with that… or some friends are a bit less inclined to follow all clues, or might have to go before the rift menace is eliminated, leaving the others that connect and figure out.

No really. I can’t desire that even if the reward is making their inside interesting. Keep them away while adding the cool features you thought of, sure ! But that sign my friend placed to keep the rifts away of the pig-torch berrybush setpiece better do its job still when I come back, aight ?

[LitulLola]

On 10/7/2023 at 10:04 PM, Antynomity said:

Don't be so passive towards me next time, thanks.

Clearly you don't know who he is, that would be an impossibility. But I can assure you he meant nothing by it

[Antynomity]

30 minutes ago, LitulLola said:

Clearly you don't know who he is, that would be an impossibility. But I can assure you he meant nothing by it

I could tell by the reply, I don't have anything against him FYI.

[LitulLola]

I think a lot of ppl have forgotten that this is end game content. It's not for the newer player that is still struggling with combat. Klei has made the entire game sandbox/newer player friendly. This is for players that have advanced beyond that and are looking for a new challenge. It sucks that they can't do both, but they literally can't do both at the same time. This is the first time that Klei has dedicated time to the endgame, so a new badass fight is kinda the point and could be really cool. 

[Antynomity]

1 minute ago, LitulLola said:

Snip

The issue is that every new bit of content is tied to combat, and the ones that aren't directly tied to combat once they are activated like hail they are designed in such a poor way that is simply there to destroy stuff for the sake of destroying stuff.

 

What the heck is the point of a world if everything outside your base that isn't protected from it is left as a wasteland that is not worth looking at? The game has a specific art style and mechanics such as that completely ruin the look and feel of the world if they are let out of control, which is easy because there's almost 0 counterplay to hail, and the counterplay there is, is limited to coasts thanks to giant trees.