If Maxwell didn't make the clockworks then who did?

[BalkanCockroach]

Maxwell's examination for damaged rook is "the builders have left it in a state of abandonement" but his examination for the normal bishop is "I'm especially proud of that piece" so how does this whole thing work? i thought Maxwell was their creator.

[-Variant]

Maxwell is not their creator, the Ancients are.

He claims ownership despite only repairing them. 
In the murals, you can clearly see the Ancients constructing the gears and mechanics for them. Additionally, if he made them, the entire 'army' section of the Ruins wouldn't make sense, as they've been there for eons, left to wear down in the Ancients absence. 

[BalkanCockroach]

2 minutes ago, -Variant said:

Maxwell is not their creator, the Ancients are.

He claims ownership despite only repairing them. 
In the murals, you can clearly see the Ancients constructing the gears and mechanics for them. Additionally, if he made them, the entire 'army' section of the Ruins wouldn't make sense, as they've been there for eons, left to wear down in the Ancients absence. 

But there's no chess in the constant, tbh i think this just lore inconsistency. Your theory makes sense too tho since they drop thulecite fragments.

 

Edited October 2 by BalkanCockroach

[-Variant]

1 minute ago, BalkanCockroach said:

But there's no chess in the constant, tbh i think this just lore inconsistency. Your theory makes sense too tho since they drop thulecite fragments.

The writing has always been a bit awkward in some places, but I believe this is the most likely answer.

Though there are plenty of chess allegories in the series, personally I imagine the Chess naming conventions could've been given by Maxwell even if he didn't build them. I can't answer as to why they move/function like actual chess pieces though, ahaha.

[BalkanCockroach]

8 minutes ago, -Variant said:

The writing has always been a bit awkward in some places, but I believe this is the most likely answer.

Though there are plenty of chess allegories in the series, personally I imagine the Chess naming conventions could've been given by Maxwell even if he didn't build them. I can't answer as to why they move/function like actual chess pieces though, ahaha.

To be fair if the ancients did build em it's only the knight that shows a striking resemblance to the actual chess piece. Rook just looks like a rhino at first glance and bishop is weird. So im convinced.

Edited October 2 by BalkanCockroach

[Cheggf]

I'm not too deep on the lore, but to my understanding the ancients built the clockworks based on the images of things that coincidentally look like chess pieces. The only living one we see is the ancient guardian, but due to rooks being modelled after him it isn't a stretch to say that the others were also modelled after other creatures.

[BalkanCockroach]

6 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

I'm not too deep on the lore, but to my understanding the ancients built the clockworks based on the images of things that coincidentally look like chess pieces. The only living one we see is the ancient guardian, but due to rooks being modelled after him it isn't a stretch to say that the others were also modelled after other creatures.

I mean theres an unused creature called zeb in the hamlet files but since it's unused i dont think that would count. Also wth could Bishop be. I hope we get to see both knight and bishops inspiration sometime. Bishop might be some sort of insectoid perhaps.

Edited October 3 by BalkanCockroach

[PunkShark]

The answer is the Ancients, or at least are the source of the mechanical bits and parts. Maxwell repaired them with a more mordern approach, although it gets a bit.. tricky once you go into the finer details. Especially the bishops since the archives appears to paint a different picture that the design of the bishops were 100% manufactured by Maxwell...Even though there are also broken down bishops in the ruins. At least that's the only intepretation that i see possible. Or perhaps Maxwell just forgot they also existed in the ruins and his mind is a bit loopy like the next maman.

[Uedo]

Ultimately I think it's just something that probably needs a little ret-con. 

However my temporary head cannon (I usually hate that concept :P) Is that there weren't clockworks but Fountains of Knowledge or perhaps schematics that the ancients had in the ruins (Or perhaps the existence of the archives was well known at the time). Maxwell when fleeing from Charlie as depicted in the Stageplay seemingly took the throne into a place that Charlie couldn't find (Not sure if the adventure mode dimensions are cannon still or not, but clearly he went into hiding as Charlie tried to find him) When Wilson found him it led to him being kicked from the throne.

The themes of Chess may or may not be connected to Maxwell in my opinion, The Max we meet on the throne seems so much less in control than the projected version of himself he uses in the constant - Charlie seemingly pops in an out in a similar way.
Clearly Charlie has accepted unifying with the force from the Shadows, whereas knowing Max's typical MO he was drawn to power not necessarily partnership so I interpret that as the explanation of why Max seemingly operates out of his own interests whether he's on the throne or not.

TL;DR - I feel Max didn't fully mentally committed to allowing the influence of the Shadows to consume him and began to create the constant out of subconscious motifs the main entity behind the fuel has thematically. Max represents the King and Charlie represents the Queen, outside of the literal purpose of those pieces in the real world they both hold big importance to the game, but clearly there are themes and rules to chess and both are bound by the creator of the rules so long as they agree to play. 
The inspiration Max had for the clockworks outside of possible retcon needs, I believe the two players of the game are truly the entities from Lunar (white) and Shadow (Black) and the rest of the reasons for why the constant is the way it is, such as the clockworks being Chess motif-d are subconscious inspirations from the overall theme of a chess game. Eventually Altar or Metheus will win and I imagine the board will be cleared and the pieces set back up.... Back to dust and Them. 

(I'm extremely tired, If i rambled - Which i did. I hope it's coherent XD) 

Quick edit: - My view of the clockworks being broken down in the ruins could be that when Metheus or whoever began to overuse the fuel, as depicted in the murals they created clockworks also, possibly using parts from the fountains of knowledge - we know they worshiped altar for a while and they may have began to break them down in the main city area and repurpose them as clockworks, why they'd be similar or the same in design may also be because of proximity to the fuel, sure it's not exactly the Throne but it is a substance very closely linked to the Shadows. Forbidden Knowledge is a big motif also in the game and that knowledge is provided in exchange for sacrifice.

Final edit: Sorry, i'm trying to avoid not giving a well-rounded view of what I mean. I think the chess motif is more important than it appears as it could also justify Max and Charlies abilities (I know it's been said before, so it's not exactly a hot-take) but this would explain why Max cannot move whilst being on the Throne representing the King (Just a loose metaphor for the fact the King in chess has very limited mobility but ultimately is tied to the  continuation of the game) and Charlie the Queen (Another metaphor for movement and purpose; She is extremely mobile and has immense control of the board but ultimately her purpose like all of the other pieces is to protect their King and try to take the opponents King, another metaphor for the duality of choice the player fulfils with siding with Lunar or Shadow - It's why I also thing Wagstaff represents the Queen for Lunar too, if Wagstaff were eliminated would it really be the end of Altar? I don't think so, I think he represents control and mobility - Like Charlie)

Edited October 3 by Uedo

[Gashzer]

I believe from Maxwells quotes of the fountain of knowledge in the archives. And the fact that we the player can also create broken clockworks from broken clockwork piles by using gears. Maxwell did invent the clockworks as they currently look using designs and parts created by the ancients. Broken clockworks look different compared to the surface ones as being close to the source of shadow and the nightmare phase has erroded them. The nightmare phase corrupts things as we already know.

[BalkanCockroach]

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

I believe from Maxwells quotes of the fountain of knowledge in the archives. And the fact that we the player can also create broken clockworks from broken clockwork piles by using gears. Maxwell did invent the clockworks as they currently look using designs and parts created by the ancients. Broken clockworks look different compared to the surface ones as being close to the source of shadow and the nightmare phase has erroded them. The nightmare phase corrupts things as we already know.

I dont think so, because there are fully complete, functioning damaged clockworks that look identical to the parts we see in the piles. If maxwell repaired them then why don't they look like surface pieces? That means they were designed, made and abandoned long before maxwell was here. Or maybe it's cause time works different in the constant but i think it's the latter.

Another thing that makes zero sense is clockwork piles dropping wires. How in the world does an ancient society that uses magic instead of tech have access to wires and electricity.

Edited October 3 by BalkanCockroach

[gamehun20]

10 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

I dont think so, because there are fully complete, functioning damaged clockworks that look identical to the parts we see in the piles. If maxwell repaired them then why don't they look like surface pieces? That means they were designed, made and abandoned long before maxwell was here. Or maybe it's cause time works different in the constant but i think it's the latter.

Another thing that makes zero sense is clockwork piles dropping wires. How in the world does an ancient society that uses magic instead of tech have acces to wires and electricity.

I mean they also used gears

[Gashzer]

13 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

I dont think so, because there are fully complete, functioning damaged clockworks that look identical to the parts we see in the piles. If maxwell repaired them then why don't they look like surface pieces? That means they were designed, made and abandoned long before maxwell was here. Or maybe it's cause time works different in the constant but i think it's the latter.

No i dont think the clockworks in the ruins were abandoned long before maxwell. When we repair a clockwork pile it spawns as a broken clockwork not a normal one even tho its a brand new, recently repaired clockwork it still appears broken. The parts that maxwell used could be old, abandoned and corrupted by nightmare but the broken clockworks could be recent creations of maxwell using corrupted parts. 

It makes sense maxwell introduces the idea of chess to the world of the constant. Maxwell has had influence over the constant as the shadow king even if he was only a puppet of sorts.

 

Edited October 3 by Gashzer

[gamehun20]

4 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

the broken clockworks could be recent creations of maxwell using corrupted parts. 

why would they be in piles then?

[BalkanCockroach]

My honest opinion is they forgor maxwell make robot + they need enemy in ruin = lore make no sense. 

Also if the ones that Maxwell repaired look like damaged clockworks how did he fix up the surface ones? And if he did fix the surface ones to look like that did he also yoink the thulecite out of em?

15 minutes ago, gamehun20 said:

I mean they also used gears

Gears aren't on the same tech scale as wires.

Edited October 3 by BalkanCockroach

[gamehun20]

17 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

Gears aren't on the same tech scale as wires.

Still used in robots

[Gashzer]

1 hour ago, gamehun20 said:

why would they be in piles then?

Welllll ruins is a pretty dangerous place. Between the depth worms, dangling spiders and shadow splumonkeys maybe some got smashed and the remaining clockworks piled up the remains of their comrades.

Who knows? 

[gamehun20]

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

remaining clockworks piled up the remains of their comrades.

With the use of what? Non of the clockworks have hands

[Gashzer]

1 hour ago, BalkanCockroach said:

My honest opinion is they forgor maxwell make robot + they need enemy in ruin = lore make no sense. 

Also if the ones that Maxwell repaired look like damaged clockworks how did he fix up the surface ones? And if he did fix the surface ones to look like that did he also yoink the thulecite out of em?

Thulecite is everywhere in the ruins. The statues, probably in/on the ground. Thulecite dust/fragments could of got trapped in the open bodies of the clockworks. Hence why its only some fragments we find in the clockworks, they arnt made out of thulecite. Nightmare phase has corrupted the clockworks in the ruins... normal clockworks would end up looking the same as the broken ones if brought to the ruins. Maxwell didnt fix the clockworks, we fix them ingame. Maxwell made all the clockworks.

24 minutes ago, gamehun20 said:

With the use of what? Non of the clockworks have hands

Rooks could sorta push things without doin a full charge i guess?? lol thats why the piles look messy.... all fits clearly... haha

Edited October 3 by Gashzer

[BalkanCockroach]

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Thulecite is everywhere in the ruins. The statues, probably in/on the ground. Thulecite dust/fragments could of got trapped in the open bodies of the clockworks. Hence why its only some fragments we find in the clockworks, they arnt made out of thulecite. Nightmare phase has corrupted the clockworks in the ruins... normal clockworks would end up looking the same as the broken ones if brought to the ruins. Maxwell didnt fix the clockworks, we fix them ingame. Maxwell made all the clockworks.

Rooks could sorta push things without doin a full charge i guess?? lol thats why the piles look messy.... all fits clearly... haha

If Maxwell did build the broken ones too then why would he say "the builders have left it in a state of abandonement" as an examination quote for damaged rook.

[Cheggf]

5 hours ago, Gashzer said:

I believe from Maxwells quotes of the fountain of knowledge in the archives. And the fact that we the player can also create broken clockworks from broken clockwork piles by using gears. Maxwell did invent the clockworks as they currently look using designs and parts created by the ancients. Broken clockworks look different compared to the surface ones as being close to the source of shadow and the nightmare phase has erroded them. The nightmare phase corrupts things as we already know.

I forgot about his fountain of knowledge quote. But now I'm not sure if it makes sense any more. He doesn't like the caves so he sealed them up (and banished rock lobsters into them), is surprised by things in there, and blames "the builders" for not maintaining the damaged rooks, but also implies that the bishop only exists because he misinterpreted some blueprint.

Honestly I think the most likely explanation is that Maxwell made them, and then the writers a decade later which is probably composed at least partially if not entirely of new people didn't perfectly remember everything about the lore and added a funny gag examination quote without considering the implications, and haven't corrected it or said anything about it because the lore is so scattered and up to interpretation that people can still try to make it make sense.

[Guille6785]

17 hours ago, BalkanCockroach said:

I mean theres an unused creature called zeb in the hamlet files but since it's unused i dont think that would count. Also wth could Bishop be. I hope we get to see both knight and bishops inspiration sometime. Bishop might be some sort of insectoid perhaps.

[BalkanCockroach]

17 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

Where are these from?  Gok looks so good. If they make another solo dlc they should definetly implement these in a savanna like biome. Except the crab we already got crabbits.

Edited October 3 by BalkanCockroach

[Gashzer]

47 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

If Maxwell did build the broken ones too then why would he say "the builders have left it in a state of abandonement" as an examination quote for damaged rook.

Does Maxwell ever mention the ancients as the builders any other time? Could be talking about his own builders lol

[BalkanCockroach]

13 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Does Maxwell ever mention the ancients as the builders any other time? Could be talking about his own builders lol

Cmon that's a strech an you know it. Also if it was his builders he would say my builders instead of the builders. And we know the ancients are the ones that made the gears. Besides what other cave society exists that we know of.

Edited October 3 by BalkanCockroach