What is the point of W.A.R.B.I.S armor in armor progression?

[Pumking7]

When I first saw the W.A.R.B.I.S armor's addition into the game, I thought it would be the proposed "upgrade" to the Brightshade armor we had received in Taking Root.

However when looking at its function it looks extremely similar to Dreadstone armor, both having more damage protection and more unique abilities than their rift-obtained counterparts, but offer weaker planar protection as a downside. Dreadstone armor's place in gameplay progression has always made a lot of sense, for to activate the Rifts you would be forced to kill Nightmare Werepig. So most likely players would've crafted Dreadstone armor in preparing for the rifts, which would've given them already a decent protection against Rift enemies before they acquired the Void set.

The W.A.R.B.I.S set doesn't really hold a discernable place in gameplay progression, for by the time you'll have gone through the difficulties of obtaining it, you would've already had the Brightshade set. The W.A.R.B.I.S set's main annoyance seems to be acquiring the "scrap" to build it, for it requires you to wait out and pay attention to Wagstaff walking past to a undiscernible location on the map. The armor set also needs a resource sink of an "enlightened shard" for each piece, requiring you to kill Celestial Champion two more times or killing it one more time and deconstructing the enlightened crown, whereas the Brightshade set only requires you to kill Celestial Champion one time. 

The gimmicks of the armor, the 1.2 dmg boost and 30% speed over time for a single target, appear interesting but don't really justify the extra effort to acquire this armor early on when rifts are activated. The Brightshade armor's dmg boost also makes the W.A.R.B.I.S's own dmg boost seem lest appealing in general.

My suggestion for this is to make the W.A.R.B.I.S. armor acquirable when entering the moon-storm, instead of when killing Celestial Champion, with Wagstaff creating camps when the mysterious energy is activated. This would make it more serve more purposes in gameplay progression: for it would serve as a precursor armor against Planar threats alike Dreadstone armor, it would make activating the moon-storms more rewarding, and would give you armor that would help prepare in the battle against Celestial Champion. 

I also suggest that W.A.R.B.I.S armor be a bit easier to obtain in both collecting scrap and the recipe itself. I believe after helping Wagstaff with a task of his, he would leave scrap behind. For example, helping Wagstaff secure a restrained static would make him leave one scrap behind as he departs. The recipe for both the W.A.R.B.I.S helm and armor should also remove the requirement of the enlightened shard for it seems like an unnecessarily resource sink to actually obtain this armor. The armor should instead need enlightened shards or Moon gleams, for they are both late-game moon items without much use and I would love both resources to be more than "filler materials" for summoning the Celestial Champion.

[-Nick-]

Devs mentioned on stream that the Warbis was primarily for those who are on console or use controller since switching items during combat is more sluggish and wonky.

[Gashzer]

1 hour ago, -Nick- said:

Devs mentioned on stream that the Warbis was primarily for those who are on console or use controller since switching items during combat is more sluggish and wonky.

Yeah as someone who has played on both console and pc the difference between the two is staggering. Thulecite club is eh whatever on pc but on console its a required weapon to kill bosses like the shadow chesspieces because you cant just quick switch to a walking cane easily on console so the innate speed boost of the club is so important now.

The warbis will be a great armour set for console players.

[Pumking7]

3 hours ago, -Nick- said:

Devs mentioned on stream that the Warbis was primarily for those who are on console or use controller since switching items during combat is more sluggish and wonky.

Huh that's really neat, I really appreciate Klei trying to help console players in that way by condensing items into one armor set for boss fights.

However if this armor is intended to help console players it still feels very misplaced, for in order for console players to reach endgame lunar-rift content they would have to be skilled enough to know how to item swap somewhat to fight the enemies and bosses on the questline. This means by the time players get this armor set they would already be knowledgeable enough on how to use multiple items, so the W.A.R.B.I.S set would appear more like a late-game luxury rather than an item aiding the players on their journey. If the W.A.R.B.I.S set was obtainable a few steps earlier on the lunar questline, then I could see it as a valuable asset and less of a end-game item to kill bosses on their chores list.

[Curly Bill]

i really enjoy alternative options when it comes to armor; post CC/AF content is still being fleshed out, and i enjoy the idea of having different types of armor options, especially if they arent tied to the respecitve aligned smithys; similar to how in early game, you have a variety of different winter gear you can craft; I like this variety for when things go off track of what you planned, you can reassess  your current options for surviving

[Popian]

Cheaper to farm boss drops if you aren't going for reusable setups.

[Jakepeng99]

Just give it planar damahe tbh since it is useless against all planar enemies

[skile]

5 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Just give it planar damahe tbh since it is useless against all planar enemies

Yeah. 

It is pretty great, but it doesn't really do much for you in regards to fighting planar enemies, which seem to be a pretty big chunk of what's to come in future updates. 

[GelatinousCube]

3 hours ago, Gashzer said:

you cant just quick switch to a walking cane easily on console so the innate speed boost of the club is so important now.

I mean you can it's just not anywhere as quick.

You just put cane and the weapon in the same inventory slot (one equipped and one in the slot you just had the other) and keep your "cursor" on that slot so they swap between the same slot and equipped.  

Nightmare werepig really requires this or he'll absolutely smash your face in haha.

It also makes it harder to use other stuff in the heat of battle as you ideally want to keep your "cursor" on that same slot.

[Wonz]

21 hours ago, -Nick- said:

Devs mentioned on stream that the Warbis was primarily for those who are on console or use controller since switching items during combat is more sluggish and wonky.

This is so evil to put  in endgame a solution for something PC player can do day 1 easily.  

[Sacco]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Just give it planar damahe tbh since it is useless against all planar enemies

I'd like to add some planar defense every single "charge' instead of planar damage, because it would make the brightshade helm pretty useless.

So you can choose a tankier build instead of a more damaging one against planar enemies.

[lenship2]

23 minutes ago, Sacco said:

I'd like to add some planar defense every single "charge' instead of planar damage, because it would make the brightshade helm pretty useless.

So you can choose a tankier build instead of a more damaging one against planar enemies.

funnily enough the dreadstone set is currently the objective best armor set for tanking planar damage

[Sacco]

2 hours ago, lenship2 said:

funnily enough the dreadstone set is currently the objective best armor set for tanking planar damage

But an armor with more than 10 planar reduction helps more against high damaging planar enemies.

[Mr Giggio]

6 hours ago, Pumking7 said:

However if this armor is intended to help console players it still feels very misplaced

Dude 

Just play console and u will understand

[lenship2]

3 hours ago, Sacco said:

But an armor with more than 10 planar reduction helps more against high damaging planar enemies.

full dreadstone set has 15 planar total actually, the wiki's page is really outdated rn

so against the current highest planar attack, the brightshade aoe spike attack, dreadstone would reduce its 100 normal dmg + 30 planar dmg to 10 normal dmg + 15 planar dmg (25 total)

meanwhile, a full brightshade set (20 planar defense and an extra 20% reduction) would reduce that damage to 20 normal dmg + 8 planar dmg (28 total)

its a small difference but currently the 90% protection is better than increased planar protection, due to the fact that the highest planar inflicting mobs only do 30 planar damage (so far)

ironically the brightshade/void sets are only good for tanking low planar damage mobs since they can cancel out low planar damage values

[Jakepeng99]

7 hours ago, Sacco said:

I'd like to add some planar defense every single "charge' instead of planar damage, because it would make the brightshade helm pretty useless.

It wont, since keep in mind this needs a 30 second charge time, only works single target, and does not grant the other perks of the helm such as brightshade staff buffs, desert goggles effects, charlie immunity and extra defence against lunar enemies.

[Sacco]

56 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

It wont, since keep in mind this needs a 30 second charge time, only works single target, and does not grant the other perks of the helm such as brightshade staff buffs, desert goggles effects, charlie immunity and extra defence against lunar enemies.

it just needs 3-6 more planar damage if iirc to make a brightshade sword equal to a player with a brightshade helmet equipped, so i don't think it would still be a great idea to buff it in that way imo.

i think something like 12 planar damage per piece at full charge could help the armor a lot, and make it the best planar armor at taking planar damage.

2 hours ago, lenship2 said:

full dreadstone set has 15 planar total actually, the wiki's page is really outdated rn

so against the current highest planar attack, the brightshade aoe spike attack, dreadstone would reduce its 100 normal dmg + 30 planar dmg to 10 normal dmg + 15 planar dmg (25 total)

meanwhile, a full brightshade set (20 planar defense and an extra 20% reduction) would reduce that damage to 20 normal dmg + 8 planar dmg (28 total)

its a small difference but currently the 90% protection is better than increased planar protection, due to the fact that the highest planar inflicting mobs only do 30 planar damage (so far)

ironically the brightshade/void sets are only good for tanking low planar damage mobs since they can cancel out low planar damage values

i did some tests against the newest bosses like crystal deerlclops and i got 130 damage against him without armor (30 planara + 100 normal) and with dreadstone armor i took 30 ( 10 normal + 20 damage) and against lunar bearger i took 27.5 damage with dredstone armor and 17 with void armor.

From my tests dreadstone armor is not the best against planar damage.

[Jakepeng99]

14 minutes ago, Sacco said:

it just needs 3-6 more planar damage if iirc to make a brightshade sword equal to a player with a brightshade helmet equipped, so i don't think it would still be a great idea to buff it in that way imo.

i think something like 12 planar damage per piece at full charge could help the armor a lot, and make it the best planar armor at taking planar damage.

It would probably be around 10 more damage with the brightsword than the helm with it, but planar damage is only applied to planar weapons

(It would be cool if it were also to be balanced with the brightshade staff to make it a sidegrade, maybe it reduces bounces but increases damage? We have the cc crown sidegrade too along with the helm which is neat so maybe not)

14 minutes ago, Sacco said:

and make it the best planar armor at taking planar damage.

I disagree, this armour feels more in the direction of a semi glass cannon and i like it that way. There could be another planar tanking armour maybe for the shadows

[Sacco]

26 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

It would probably be around 10 more damage with the brightsword than the helm with it, but planar damage is only applied to planar weapons

(It would be cool if it were also to be balanced with the brightshade staff to make it a sidegrade, maybe it reduces bounces but increases damage? We have the cc crown sidegrade too along with the helm which is neat so maybe not)

I disagree, this armour feels more in the direction of a semi glass cannon and i like it that way. There could be another planar tanking armour maybe for the shadows

i liked the idea to make this armor a glass cannon against non-planar enemies but at the same time a more tanky armor against planar enemies.

I've never heard of an armor that can be used as a glass cannon against some enemies and as a tank one against other.

In other words, i liked the concept of a two faced armor.

[Jakepeng99]

3 minutes ago, Sacco said:

i liked the idea to make this armor a glass cannon against non-planar enemies but at the same time a more tanky armor against planar enemies.

I've never heard of an armor that can be used as a glass cannon against some enemies and as a tank one against other.

In other words, i liked the concept of a two faced armor.

That is interesting and cool, i think it would work as a hybrid armour combined with both shadow and lunar however that might work, unstable armour.

[_zwb]

3 hours ago, lenship2 said:

full dreadstone set has 15 planar total

The full set has 10 planar protection. Hitting a brightshade will be 30 damage, 10 normal, 20 planar.

Full brightshade set will be 17 damage

[Well-met]

the point is no other armor in the game gives speed and damage

that's all you should care about.

[Jakepeng99]

47 minutes ago, Well-met said:

the point is no other armor in the game gives speed and damage

that's all you should care about.

Brightshade helm grants more damage than the warbus helm with the brightshade sword, even when fully charged after its daunting 30 second cooldowm.

The body piece is perfectly fine, but when the next headpiece you obtain is not only way harder way more expensive, but falls off drastically as soon as you obtain it shows its progression is really flawed. (20% extra damage barely effects planar weapons)

[lenship2]

1 hour ago, _zwb said:

The full set has 10 planar protection. Hitting a brightshade will be 30 damage, 10 normal, 20 planar.

not when i tested it in game?

wearing the full set gave me 15 planar defense

[_zwb]

4 minutes ago, lenship2 said:

not when i tested it in game?

wearing the full set gave me 15 planar defense

The head piece and body armour have 5 planar defense each. I don't know how did you get that extra 5 defense, maybe mods?