My qol and balance/design changes to Books, and Wickerbottom

[Jakepeng99]

These are changes to books and Wickerbottom i would like since she has some design issues. I am only focusing on Wickerbottom, and books.

Maxwell

I was originally going to make it that he can not read the Wicker books, but @goatt gave a better suggestion that makes him much less efficent and feel much less refined at reading them. Read their reply below to check it out!

Wickerbottom

■Now gains 25% less positive stats, and loses 25% more negative stats from raw food.

▪Her delicate stomach downside only effected stale and spoiled food. If she has a delicate stomach it would make sense for eating a raw, bacteria infested hunk of meat from the ground to be a bad idea. I just feel like this one makes sense.

■Pyrocanetics Qol changes.

▪The pen can now have up to 50 fires stored inside instead of 10.

▪Absorbing fires will now refuel existing pens in the inventory instead of making a new one, if they are all fully fueled it will make a new one anyway.

▪Absorbing endothermic fires from endothermic fire pits will now make an ice pen. Same as the fire pen but an ice staff. (Not really qol, I just thought this would be cool, maybe it will make a special pen when absorbing the night light? I feel like fire absorbing could be like this for Willow)

■Bee Book Qol changes.

▪Reading the bee book now heals all bees for 75% of their health, 25% if the read has resulted in your sainity going to 0%. The sainity upcost in fights will make it balanced for it.

■On Tentacles Qol Change.

▪The tentacles now are passive for 3 seconds after spawning. Just some nice qol.

■Rain Rituals tweaks

▪These books are able to majorly effect the world at your will which make the sainity cost seem miniscul. Rain rituals can essentially turn off Spring for the entire server easily, leaving only the minor things left. It can turn off Summer completly, though you still need to face rain, you do not freeze in it. It is a neat counter to wildfires but that is a whole other deal.

▪Rain Rituals now has a 5 day global cooldown in each shard. During the cooldown you may not use the book. Now it feels more like a special get out of jail free day rather than a forever answer.

 

 

Wurt

▪Now has a 5 day cooldown that does not let her read the same book she just read in a row for that time since she would get bored of it. For example, if you read on tentacles, you wont be able to read it for 5 days, but you may read the fish book. After reading the fish book that goes on a 5 day cooldown too. I am a Wurt player and i find this infinite and instant sainity manipulation to be too strong. This balances it, and makes it more interesting to have a variety of books rather than spamming one in particular. I know Wurt needs some extra things, but this is just focused on the books, nothing else about her. The current book system with Wurt with the added bookshelf feels flawed so this should make them still viable, and feel like a nice treat instead.

[Mysterious box]

18 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

These are changes to books and Wickerbottom i would like since she has some design issues. I am only focusing on Wickerbottom, and books.

Maxwell

■He can no longer read Wickerbottom books.

▪He could steal all of Wickerbottom's upsides for the most part. Yes he loses 3x sainity from the books but this is a problem made with the bookshelf, so i am going to try balance things around the bookshelf since now Wickerbottom does not need to re-supply the books. Maxwell already has a fun and powerful kit, and probably shouldn't have access to another character's kit too.

Wickerbottom

■Now gains 25% less positive stats, and loses 25% more negative stats from raw food.

▪Her delicate stomach downside only effected stale and spoiled food. If she has a delicate stomach it would make sense for eating a raw, bacteria infested hunk of meat from the ground to be a bad idea. I just feel like this one makes sense.

■Pyrocanetics Qol changes.

▪The pen can now have up to 50 fires stored inside instead of 10.

▪Absorbing fires will now refuel existing pens in the inventory instead of making a new one, if they are all fully fueled it will make a new one anyway.

▪Absorbing endothermic fires from endothermic fire pits will now make an ice pen. Same as the fire pen but an ice staff. (Not really qol, I just thought this would be cool, maybe it will make a special pen when absorbing the night light? I feel like fire absorbing could be like this for Willow)

■Bee Book Qol changes.

▪Now the grumble bees can pollinate a flower to regain some hp. They will do it only when the user is standing still. Having low hp bees was always annoying after leaving combat and was tedious, this should add some unique flower set ups for her.

■On Tentacles Qol Change.

▪The tentacles now spawn far enough from your character to not just instantly pop up and hit you. You may think it is op, though it just made it really annoying since you can do this with walls already, it is not really game breaking.

■Rain Rituals tweaks

▪These books are able to majorly effect the world at your will which make the sainity cost seem miniscul. Rain rituals can essentially turn off Spring for the entire server easily, leaving only the minor things left. It can turn off Summer completly, though you still need to face rain, you do not freeze in it. It is a neat counter to wildfires but that is a whole other deal.

▪Rain Rituals now has a 5 day global cooldown in each shard. During the cooldown you may not use the book. Now it feels more like a special get out of jail free day rather than a forever answer.

▪I was thinking of giving a grimmore a 2 day cooldown, but let me know your thoughts.

 

Wurt

▪Now has a 5 day cooldown that does not let her read the same book she just read in a row for that time since she would get bored of it. For example, if you read on tentacles, you wont be able to read it for 5 days, but you may read the fish book. After reading the fish book that goes on a 5 day cooldown too. I am a Wurt player and i find this infinite and instant sainity manipulation to be too strong. This balances it, and makes it more interesting to have a variety of books rather than spamming one in particular. I know Wurt needs some extra things, but this is just focused on the books, nothing else about her. The current book system with Wurt with the added bookshelf feels flawed so this should make them still viable, and feel like a nice treat instead.

I agree with the overall changes alot. Maxwell being able to share all her upsides regardless of lore feels bad.

As far as the bees go I do think as long as they're pollinating they should give Wicker 1 honey each in the process though maybe they can offer honey from doing this once per day? Though this could possibly go to the skill tree.

I completely agree with all the other changes too just don't have anything else to add on them.

[Jakepeng99]

50 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I agree with the overall changes alot. Maxwell being able to share all her upsides regardless of lore feels bad.

As far as the bees go I do think as long as they're pollinating they should give Wicker 1 honey each in the process though maybe they can offer honey from doing this once per day? Though this could possibly go to the skill tree.

I completely agree with all the other changes too just don't have anything else to add on them.

Thank you! Also i am not too sure of the bees giving honey since they are already good combat wise.

[ApoIIo]

3 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

These are changes to books and Wickerbottom i would like since she has some design issues. I am only focusing on Wickerbottom, and books.

Maxwell

■He can no longer read Wickerbottom books.

▪He could steal all of Wickerbottom's upsides for the most part. Yes he loses 3x sainity from the books but this is a problem made with the bookshelf, so i am going to try balance things around the bookshelf since now Wickerbottom does not need to re-supply the books. Maxwell already has a fun and powerful kit, and probably shouldn't have access to another character's kit too.

■Rain Rituals tweaks

▪These books are able to majorly effect the world at your will which make the sainity cost seem miniscul. Rain rituals can essentially turn off Spring for the entire server easily, leaving only the minor things left. It can turn off Summer completly, though you still need to face rain, you do not freeze in it. It is a neat counter to wildfires but that is a whole other deal.

▪Rain Rituals now has a 5 day global cooldown in each shard. During the cooldown you may not use the book. Now it feels more like a special get out of jail free day rather than a forever answer.

▪I was thinking of giving a grimmore a 2 day cooldown, but let me know your thoughts.

We only really have rain rituals that works as an effective global wildfire counter. It's the only book I consider worth reading frequently- or being Wickerbottom for, honestly. Her value would plummet for me if you nerfed it.

Grimoire is honestly... bad? 50 sanity a day is very costy compared to the lightbulbs it replaces, even though full moons are convinient grimoire requires quite a few hurdles to go through to utilize it daily. I'll just turn on moonstorms ASAP if I want permalight. It really turned 2/3 of my gameplay to kiting shadows whenever I got it first autumn.

Nah, let Maxwell read, it's cool. It's still a total pain to try to read anything without bone helm, after which it's glued to your head and your head slot is a myth.
Just give Wickerbottom something like "books regenerate in her main inventory" so books like Tempering Temperatures are good on her, but not him. (Also a better buff to the Bee book than pollinating IMO)
Everyone can use Maxwell's ender chests but he has slightly better access to them through hat and I think sharing perks that way is the coolest thing ever.

I also really appricerate having an alternative way to deal with spring as it's not particularly hard to use up an equip slot for it already. Warly was just too awfully impractical for it to be worthwhile.

[goatt]

I think Maxwell vs Books should be bumpy. If Wickerbottom's reading experience is smooth, then Maxwell's should not be smooth.

The lore (animated shorts) says the source of magic in Wicker's books are from Maxwell. After all, it was Maxwell that brought Wicker into DS. He should know everything she knows. If he doesn't, he should at least understand and utilize what she knows.

But she's good at reading, but he's not a librarian. His bumpy experience of reading books should come from reading itself, not from whether he can use that power.

 

So I would build a downside around that.

1. Maxwell reads books 3x slower. Just like how slow wurt reading books. That's how non-librarians read books.

2. Each time Maxwell reads book, it cost 99% of a book's durability. (he can't handle magic and book properly at the same time)

3. When maxwell reads a book, books effect is reduced by 33%. In detail:

Spoiler

- 33% less fish

- 33% fewer birds

- 33% less grogginess

- 33% less length of magic effects

- 33% failing chance at reading full-moon-book, Tempering Temperatures, night light books and rain books.

- Affect the growth of 33% fewer crops, or 33% smaller range of plants

- farm plants fast growing 3 stages rather than 4

- 1 fewer grumble bees summoned

- 33% fewer tentacles

- 33% lightning

- 33% of the fire won't be put out

How would it influence the gameplay?

1. it would essentially lower the availability of books to Maxwell. He can reads them at a much lower frequency.

2. maxwell's book power is significantly inferior to wickerbottom's.

3. In fighting dragonfly, sleep books don't work because of the slow animation.

4. In farming Krampus sack, the process is much slower. One shelf of books won't suffice.

5. negatively affect Pyrokinetics Explained because slower reading speed and 33% fail rate. This book won't be reliable in larger fires anymore.

6. Maxwell needs caution in using books, because he can only use books with 100% durability. That means, he can't share wicker's books. If a wicker read a book, he can't read the same book immediately.

Overall in my suggestion, books will be a much smaller bonus to Maxwell, rather than like a real character perk.

[Valase]

2 hours ago, goatt said:

3. When maxwell reads a book, books effect is reduced by 33%. In detail:

  Reveal hidden contents

- 33% less fish

- 33% fewer birds

- 33% less grogginess

- 33% less length of magic effects

- 33% failing chance at reading full-moon-book, Tempering Temperatures, night light books and rain books.

- Affect the growth of 33% fewer crops, or 33% smaller range of plants

- farm plants fast growing 3 stages rather than 4

- 1 fewer grumble bees summoned

- 33% fewer tentacles

- 33% lightning

- 33% of the fire won't be put out

I think that this change is good enough to nerf Maxwell, or even just giving him a flat 33% chance to fail on any book, as the other two would be more damaging to characters interactions than "justifiable" (also a 3x slower animation would be really "ugly" to watch), and the other change would be more of a way to grief Wicker.

on the same note, Wicker could be able to read Max umbra for its effects with the same penalties (3x max sanity cost).

6 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

■Bee Book Qol changes.

▪Now the grumble bees can pollinate a flower to regain some hp. They will do it only when the user is standing still. Having low hp bees was always annoying after leaving combat and was tedious, this should add some unique flower set ups for her.

or reading a bee book could heal them to full.

About the rest of the changes:

the fire pen durability aready is good enough, and I'm sure that it refills on read before creating another. An ice Pen would be good as a result of another book effect;

the moon and rain book are strong enough, and they require a good upkeep of sanity to maintain. but I would not mind paying more for their effects (moonrock and rain protection materials added to the effect, greater sanity cost);

the tentacle book is in a weird spot, as it is very strong, but it can kill you, so giving it this change would make op as you would not need to set up the walls for a BQ cheese (and one tip, pairing  tentacle book+ one spider book can easily kill both moose/goose and his mosslings, even before they enrage as the tentacles only scare the little hellspawns after they attack).

And for a suggestion for a book that I think would be a great addition for wickerbottom library:

Guide to Nautical safety (reading it lowers your anchor and retrieves your sails, stopping your boat).

[goatt]

1 hour ago, Valase said:

I think that this change is good enough to nerf Maxwell, or even just giving him a flat 33% chance to fail on any book, as the other two would be more damaging to characters interactions than "justifiable" (also a 3x slower animation would be really "ugly" to watch), and the other change would be more of a way to grief Wicker.

"more of a way to grief Wicker." lol, yeah. But anything can be used a grief anyways. But I agree 99% is too harsh.

 

I think slow animation is the key. The animation itself can be improved and be like " maxwell looking for the main page of the magic animation" with quote like "where is it? So many pages!".

Just like old Wanda crafts super slowly, Maxwell reads book super slowly. With the expectation of how smooth Wicker can read her books, this slow animation will give players a clear feel of how Maxwell is inferior at books by contrast.

Why is reducing number not enough, imo? Because changing numbers won't change players behavior directly. When you can directly feel "ugly", it'll be very efficient at repelling you from spamming wickerbottom's books. The goal of game design is to effectively change players behavior so that they can play / feel the game as the way you want them to play / feel while giving them a feeling of "freedom" at the same time.

 

If I had to pick between slow animation and 33% reduction. I would choose slow animation as a nerf.

What's more, the slow animation will effectively make it impossible for Maxwell to spam books on mainland before getting bone helm, because slow animation will make Maxwell vulnerable to shadow creature's attack.

[Tranoze]

Wait is this nerf maxwell post or balance wicker post?
Everyone should be able to read wicker book, instead nerfing maxwell only. Wilson should be able to read science book, willow should be able to read fire book.

As librarian she should want other survivor to read more book, instead keeping it for herself.

She should able to recover book durability instantly with pencil, and bookself natural recover should be nerfed, book recover while wicker around should be buffed.
 

[Jakepeng99]

4 hours ago, Tranoze said:

Wait is this nerf maxwell post or balance wicker post?
Everyone should be able to read wicker book, instead nerfing maxwell only. Wilson should be able to read science book, willow should be able to read fire book.

As librarian she should want other survivor to read more book, instead keeping it for herself.

She should able to recover book durability instantly with pencil, and bookself natural recover should be nerfed, book recover while wicker around should be buffed.
 

I am not nerfing Maxwell, i am buffing Wickerbottom. Maxwell having access to her entire kit is not really a good idea.

9 hours ago, Bearger Enjoyer said:

We only really have rain rituals that works as an effective global wildfire counter. It's the only book I consider worth reading frequently- or being Wickerbottom for, honestly. Her value would plummet for me if you nerfed it.

Grimoire is honestly... bad? 50 sanity a day is very costy compared to the lightbulbs it replaces, even though full moons are convinient grimoire requires quite a few hurdles to go through to utilize it daily. I'll just turn on moonstorms ASAP if I want permalight. It really turned 2/3 of my gameplay to kiting shadows whenever I got it first autumn.

Nah, let Maxwell read, it's cool. It's still a total pain to try to read anything without bone helm, after which it's glued to your head and your head slot is a myth.
Just give Wickerbottom something like "books regenerate in her main inventory" so books like Tempering Temperatures are good on her, but not him. (Also a better buff to the Bee book than pollinating IMO)
Everyone can use Maxwell's ender chests but he has slightly better access to them through hat and I think sharing perks that way is the coolest thing ever.

I also really appricerate having an alternative way to deal with spring as it's not particularly hard to use up an equip slot for it already. Warly was just too awfully impractical for it to be worthwhile.

I did not change grimmore i just put a potential change to it because i was unsure. The rain book is a permanant counter to rain with no cost once you have it. Giving it a 5 day cooldown is still good against rain but does not completly delete it like before. Before you had to consider using inventory slots and items to prevent it, a permanant counter like this for the whole server is not that good design. It gets pretty old having 3/4 seasons to become Autumn with a few quirks. The book still becomes a good counter to wild fires, but not a permanant answer. Now using the book requires you to think about it, rather than just mindlessly reading it whenever rain comes on. I feel like if it was like this from begining everyone would still like the book and see it as a nice tool rather than a one time small investment to permantly get rid of rain. The sainity loss is a minor tradeoff.

8 hours ago, goatt said:

I think Maxwell vs Books should be bumpy. If Wickerbottom's reading experience is smooth, then Maxwell's should not be smooth.

The lore (animated shorts) says the source of magic in Wicker's books are from Maxwell. After all, it was Maxwell that brought Wicker into DS. He should know everything she knows. If he doesn't, he should at least understand and utilize what she knows.

But she's good at reading, but he's not a librarian. His bumpy experience of reading books should come from reading itself, not from whether he can use that power.

 

So I would build a downside around that.

1. Maxwell reads books 3x slower. Just like how slow wurt reading books. That's how non-librarians read books.

2. Each time Maxwell reads book, it cost 99% of a book's durability. (he can't handle magic and book properly at the same time)

3. When maxwell reads a book, books effect is reduced by 33%. In detail:

  Reveal hidden contents

- 33% less fish

- 33% fewer birds

- 33% less grogginess

- 33% less length of magic effects

- 33% failing chance at reading full-moon-book, Tempering Temperatures, night light books and rain books.

- Affect the growth of 33% fewer crops, or 33% smaller range of plants

- farm plants fast growing 3 stages rather than 4

- 1 fewer grumble bees summoned

- 33% fewer tentacles

- 33% lightning

- 33% of the fire won't be put out

How would it influence the gameplay?

1. it would essentially lower the availability of books to Maxwell. He can reads them at a much lower frequency.

2. maxwell's book power is significantly inferior to wickerbottom's.

3. In fighting dragonfly, sleep books don't work because of the slow animation.

4. In farming Krampus sack, the process is much slower. One shelf of books won't suffice.

5. negatively affect Pyrokinetics Explained because slower reading speed and 33% fail rate. This book won't be reliable in larger fires anymore.

6. Maxwell needs caution in using books, because he can only use books with 100% durability. That means, he can't share wicker's books. If a wicker read a book, he can't read the same book immediately.

Overall in my suggestion, books will be a much smaller bonus to Maxwell, rather than like a real character perk.

I agree this is better than removing it.

5 hours ago, Valase said:

or reading a bee book could heal them to full.

This would be way too overpowered in combat. The aim was a way to heal outside of combat without buffing there good combat potential.

5 hours ago, Valase said:

the moon and rain book are strong enough, and they require a good upkeep of sanity to maintain. but I would not mind paying more for their effects (moonrock and rain protection materials added to the effect, greater sanity cost);

Increasing the cost of the rain book does not solve the issue, they are already a one time thing that permantly answers multiple core mechanics in seasons. Increasing the sainity cost does not fix the issue really either. As an exaggeration, they could always set your sainity to 0 and summon a nightmare creature, but killing one or two nightmares is not enough of a downside to a permanant answer. Besides, the tam o shanter is enough to permantly get rid of the sainity loss you need to read the rain book anyway. Keep in mind it effects the entire world and everyone in it for an ignorable sainity loss. The rain book currently is not balanced around the bookshelf.

[Tranoze]

52 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I am not nerfing Maxwell

13 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Maxwell

■He can no longer read Wickerbottom books.

Sure...

[ApoIIo]

52 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

The rain book is a permanant counter to rain with no cost once you have it. Giving it a 5 day cooldown is still good against rain but does not completly delete it like before. Before you had to consider using inventory slots and items to prevent it, a permanant counter like this for the whole server is not that good design. It gets pretty old having 3/4 seasons to become Autumn with a few quirks. The book still becomes a good counter to wild fires, but not a permanant answer. Now using the book requires you to think about it, rather than just mindlessly reading it whenever rain comes on. I feel like if it was like this from begining everyone would still like the book and see it as a nice tool rather than a one time small investment to permantly get rid of rain. The sainity loss is a minor tradeoff.

It's like the only book useful enough to make me consider picking her, let it beeeee. It's boring dealing with spring the same way as anyone else.

[Jakepeng99]

@Valase I added the bee book suggestion since i realised that the change is alright since you need the sainity to heal them and would spawn a nightmare in combat. I did change it though. I also changed the tentacle book to make the tentacles be passive for 3 seconds instead of spawning further away from the user.

@goatt I removed my Maxwell change, and just told them to read yours in the comments.

Those are some of my changes, i also removed the idea of the lunar book change since it is ok already. I also probably should change the angler guide too.

8 minutes ago, Bearger Enjoyer said:

It's like the only book useful enough to make me consider picking her, let it beeeee. It's boring dealing with spring the same way as anyone else.

You just turn it into second Autumn with tiny cost, it is not that much more interesting. She has alot of other cool and interesting books at her disposal, the rain book is still a valid reason to pick her even with a 5 day cooldown, keep in mind it does not rain all the time in Spring, just much more often.

10 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Sure...

He already has the best kit in the franchise and probably is the strongest character, he does not need another kit that also happens to be one of the best. I applied goatt's change anyway.

4 hours ago, Tranoze said:

Wait is this nerf maxwell post or balance wicker post?
Everyone should be able to read wicker book, instead nerfing maxwell only. Wilson should be able to read science book, willow should be able to read fire book.

As librarian she should want other survivor to read more book, instead keeping it for herself.

She should able to recover book durability instantly with pencil, and bookself natural recover should be nerfed, book recover while wicker around should be buffed.
 

I like some of the ideas here though not every character should be able to read every book. I like the idea of them being able to read one, like the Wilson reading the wiki book, and Willow the pyro book.

9 hours ago, goatt said:

In fighting dragonfly, sleep books don't work because of the slow animation.

They already do not work on d fly.

[00petar00]

gameplay > lore - Maxwell shouldn't be able to read her books and no amount of difficulty attached to it will matter considering you can just use bone helm even taking 99% durability per read (Maxwell players would just make more books and bookcases). The only option in which I would let him keep this ability is if the book breaks after 1 use or maybe a better solution is for books to stop repairing in bookscase if Wickerbottom isn't online.

Rain rituals shouldn't be nerfed until wildfires are changed or replaced and even if that happens she should get some compensation as this is literally 50% of the reason to pick her. She has been nerfed when RWYS update came out. WX doesn't need overcharging now and while this was a bad interaction it still matters and makes the end is nigh book useless.

So I do think she has gotten buffs with her refresh but if you nerf rain rituals which is her most powerful book and don't give her anything in return it would be quite bad for her considering how other characters have gotten big powerups in their refreshes and now with skill trees too which I don't think she has much to benefit from.

[ApoIIo]

54 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

You just turn it into second Autumn with tiny cost, it is not that much more interesting. She has alot of other cool and interesting books at her disposal, the rain book is still a valid reason to pick her even with a 5 day cooldown, keep in mind it does not rain all the time in Spring, just much more often.

Spring is always just second autumn but without your head slot. It's really not a huge gamebreaker, it's just convinient enough to actually be worth utilizing.
If I'm gonna need to be carrying an eyebrella anyway, why should I bother using the book for spring?

41 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

gameplay > lore - Maxwell shouldn't be able to read her books and no amount of difficulty attached to it will matter considering you can just use bone helm even taking 99% durability per read (Maxwell players would just make more books and bookcases). The only option in which I would let him keep this ability is if the book breaks after 1 use or maybe a better solution is for books to stop repairing in bookscase if Wickerbottom isn't online.

I think that if we're nerfing his reading, it'd be better if he could just read once a day or something.
Also, I think my "give wicker inventory book regen" idea is more interesting to give Wicker an edge over him, because it'd be a big buff to certain books such as tempering temperatures (which no one uses) and the bee book. (Being able to read it on the go would make it on par with shadow duelists, whereas Maxwell would need to scoot back to a bookcase to get more bees.)

[loopuleasa]

15 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Now gains 25% less positive stats, and loses 25% more negative stats from raw food

This delicate stomach perk is already reserved for wagstaff.

[Mysterious box]

Honestly the maxwell wickerbottom relationship feels like if Walter, Webber, and Wurt could use abigial if Wendy gave them her flower and potions they're friends after all. But then why play Wendy?

[Jakepeng99]

4 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

gameplay > lore - Maxwell shouldn't be able to read her books and no amount of difficulty attached to it will matter considering you can just use bone helm even taking 99% durability per read (Maxwell players would just make more books and bookcases). The only option in which I would let him keep this ability is if the book breaks after 1 use or maybe a better solution is for books to stop repairing in bookscase if Wickerbottom isn't online.

Rain rituals shouldn't be nerfed until wildfires are changed or replaced and even if that happens she should get some compensation as this is literally 50% of the reason to pick her. She has been nerfed when RWYS update came out. WX doesn't need overcharging now and while this was a bad interaction it still matters and makes the end is nigh book useless.

So I do think she has gotten buffs with her refresh but if you nerf rain rituals which is her most powerful book and don't give her anything in return it would be quite bad for her considering how other characters have gotten big powerups in their refreshes and now with skill trees too which I don't think she has much to benefit from.

I normally just turn wildfires off since i don't like them, if the rain book is pretty much mostly used to remove a pretty controversial mechanic, i feel like wildfires should be changed in addition. She is the best farmer, and has alot of powerful resource potential. She has alot of fun books- the spider book suprised me with how underated it was- with fun but strong spells so she would still be fine if the book was changed. Also she was given compesation with fire book qol(useful for wildfires too) and some other qol changes with the bees and tentacles.

3 hours ago, loopuleasa said:

This delicate stomach perk is already reserved for wagstaff.

Read Wickerbottom's description, it says she has a delicate stomach. Also Wagstaff just loses a small amount of for raw food.

[MondayNight]

It would be nice, OP, if you stopped with this deluge of proposed nerfs left&right for some time now, just for the sake of it. Nerfs aren't an aspect largely welcomed by any gaming community out there. Accept it. That or play "Uncompromising Mode" - you'll probably like it if not already (to "feel inspired" into coming here and proposing them nerfs), beside like-minded individuals. Ty!

[Jakepeng99]

2 hours ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

It would be nice, OP, if you stopped with this deluge of proposed nerfs left&right for some time now, just for the sake of it. Nerfs aren't an aspect largely welcomed by any gaming community out there. Accept it. That or play "Uncompromising Mode" - you'll probably like it if not already (to "feel inspired" into coming here and proposing them nerfs), beside like-minded individuals. Ty!

I am not just throwing out a nerf to a book and a change to her downside because I hate fun I want everyone to have less fun, and i must be sent to the chambers of uncompromising mode, i actually like Wickerbottom and enjoy finding niche uses in her books. I think making a character better is more than straight buffs, or straight nerfs- better does not mean stronger, or weaker. My aim was to try make things i don't like design wise better, like some qol "buffs" to bee kind and pyrometics, or "nerfs" to the rain book to make it feel less "Rain seen, neuron activation". You don't need to agree with me and i don't need to agree with you, it shouldn't be that any person who wants to just suggest balance to something is an out of line student from the wrong school. It would be nice if you could stop doing that please.

[goatt]

10 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

They already do not work on d fly.

lol, how? what changed?

Also, you can use my idea directly in your original post for ease of reading for people so that they don't have to search in comment section.

Also, thanks for liking the idea, too.

[Jakepeng99]

10 hours ago, goatt said:

lol, how? what changed?

I tried it, back before Wicker had a rework, it did not work. The book does not work on giants, though it probably should.

[goatt]

On 8/9/2023 at 2:47 PM, Jakepeng99 said:

Now has a 5 day cooldown that does not let her read the same book she just read in a row for that time since she would get bored of it. For example, if you read on tentacles, you wont be able to read it for 5 days,

I think the goal is that she can't spam books. Is that right?

Or put in another way, so that even if she does spam books, it won't work by gaining or losing tons of sanity instantly. This can be done by changing book effects from instant-sanity-effect to sanity-over-time. Books with 50 sanity will be changed to 12 sanity per min for half a day. Books with 33 sanity will be changed to 8 sanity per min for half a day. New book replaces old book effects rather than stack. That way, spamming books won't have bigger effect than single book.

(Though she can carry her fav book with her to read over time)

[ApoIIo]

On 8/9/2023 at 10:47 PM, Jakepeng99 said:

Now has a 5 day cooldown that does not let her read the same book she just read in a row for that time since she would get bored of it. 

This seems like if Wortox could read. Or a much more preferable "nerf" if we must nerf Maxwell out of books, since he openly finds them overly-wordy.

[Frashaw27]

I think an interesting compromise is that Maxwell could read the books, but they wouldn't get the full effects of it. Like the spider book would create a web half the size for half the time, the everything encyclopedia would only give recipes that are avilable to the first level of the research (like science would be backpack, spear, and boards while magic would be like LGA, ice staff, and one man band), the rain book would only take away wetness and make things around him wet for a shorter amount of timer, etc. That way the synergy is still there, but it's not as good. Like how Maxwell can use his shadow ender chest wherever but the others need shadow chester or the maxwell box to use it, or how everybody can use Berrnie but only willow can use the hulk form. I will agree that Wickerbottom is kind of in the shadows but that's only because Maxwell literally took the same powers, same problem that Warly has where his spices can be yoinked by anyone else since there's no deterrent. I think by making Maxwell weak at using the books, it promotes an even compromise where he isn't just stripped away from the power but can also isn't jusr outshining here in everyway.